MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The L1A1 ArmourerContains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  The L1A1 Armourer  
  Membership Announcements  
  Message Board  
  
  General  
  
  Open Topic Forum  
  
  AT Weapons Forum  
  
  AK Family Forum  
  
  Bayonet Forum  
  
  Belt Fed Forum  
  
  CETME&HK Forum  
  
  M1,M14 and BM59  
  
  M16 Family Forum  
  
  Pistols Forum  
  
  The Swap Shoppe  
  
  Ask the Armourer  
  
  "War Stories"  
  
  Politics & BS  
  
  Jokes & Humour  
  
  Lest We Forget  
  
  FAQs for Members  
  AASAM 2002 and 2003 Pictures  
  AASAM 2004  
  Pictures  
  Online   
  Member's file cabinet  
  FN FAL links  
  Military/Historical links  
  Militaria links  
  Reference book and magazine links  
  Member's websites  
  Member's Pages  
  Show and Tell  
  Master Gunners AK Manual  
  L85/L86 Forum  
  
  
  Tools  
 
Ask the Armourer : Safety Selectors and Safety Sears
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunner  (Original Message)Sent: 6/15/2006 3:52 PM
MG Note: The following discussion is for the education of our readers.  Attempted conversion of this rifle to selective fire is both dangerous to the rifle and shooter, as well as highly illegal (it can earn you 10 years in a federal prision in the United States). 
 
As they came from the factory, both metric-pattern FAL and inch-pattern L1A1 and C1A1 rifles had selective fire components installed.  These two parts were the ejector block, permanently pinned into the upper receiver, and the safety sear.  As its name implies, the ejector block contained the ejector for throwing fired cases from the rifle.  It also retained the bolt hold open and magazine catch parts.  It was notched on the left side for the safety sear.
 
The safety sear performs two functions: (1) prevents the firing of the rifle when the bolt is not fully locked and (2) prevents uncontrolled automatic fire from the rifle (runaway gun).  Correct adjustment of the safety sear is critical to the safe operation of a select fire rifle.
 
 
 
 
Above: The ejector block on the right and safety sear (with sear spring) on the left.
 
Users of the FAL or L1A1/C1A1 series rifles soon realized that the powerful 7.62 NATO cartridge could not be controlled in full-automatic fire and many rifles had their automatic fire function permanently made inoperable.  The automatic function was locked-out in one of several ways: (1) the lower receiver had a stop pin installed that limited safety selector travel or (2) the safety selector incorporated a design feature that prevented its movement to the automatic fire position.
 
  
 
Above: The lower receiver of this T48 rifle shows the stop pin and safety selector that locks out automatic fire on the rifle.
Below: (Left) a Canadian C1A1 shows off the mechanical stop of its safety selector; (right) the L-shaped safety selector of an Israeli FAL.
 
  
 
A heavier support weapon was designed using the basic rifle that used a larger 30-round magazine, had a heavier barrel for sustained fire, and employed a bipod for support.  Metric-pattern guns were called the FALO and inch-pattern guns were called L2A1 (Australia) or C2A1 (Canada) automatic rifles.  British users preferred a 7.62 NATO conversion of the venerable .303 Bren light machine gun of World War 2 fame.  British 7.62 NATO-converted Brens used a curved 30-round magazine that interchanged with the 20-round magazine of the standard rifle.  Magazines of all Commonwealth-made rifles were interchangeable.
 
 
 
Above: A represenative automatic rifle version of the metric-pattern FAL was called the FALO.  This is an Israeli heavy barreled version with enlarged carrying handle, folding butt plate and fixed height bipod with a 5-slot flash suppressor.
 
Commercial production rifles or rifles made from metric-pattern or inch-pattern parts, do not have the safety sear nor do they use ejector blocks with that are sear-cut.  This feature makes them permanently incapable of selective fire.  Even though the safety selector may go to both semi-auto and full-auto positions, the rifle can fire only in semi-automatic mode.  Some rifles also use new production pistol grips that limit the safety selector travel.
 
Below: An aftermarket pistol grip without the safety selector cut acts as a stop for the selector.
 
  
 
 


First  Previous  2-8 of 8  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunnerSent: 6/15/2006 3:59 PM
Damn!  Change photo caption to read:
 
Above: The ejector block on the left and safety sear (with sear spring) on the right.

Reply
 Message 3 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamekammat1Sent: 7/13/2008 10:51 AM
I was wondering if the safety catches themseves were diferent between the 2 versions? I recall seing the 2 side by side at one stage, and was wondering if changing the full auto catch to a semi-auto rifle would them make that full auto?

Reply
 Message 4 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunnerSent: 7/14/2008 3:03 PM
Any FAL rifle without a safety sear (and accompanying ejector block cut for it) is permanently rendered semi-automatic only and cannot be converted.  It does not matter what kind of safety selector is used or what kind of lower receiver is used. 
 
If your metric or inch pattern lower has three positions -- such as S (safe), R (semi-auto), A (auto) -- without the above two parts [safety sear and cut ejector block] -- the rifle can only produce semi-auto fire no matter what kind of safety selector is present. 
 
The purpose of the safety sear for full-auto FALs (metric or inch) is to act as the sear trip when the selector is in the "A" position.  When the bolt carrier closes, it trips the safety sear, and that trips the sear to allow the hammer to fall in the "A" position.
 
Without the safety sear, the bolt carrier has nothing to trip when the selector is in "A" position and so all you can ever get is semi-automatic fire. 
 
This is a good thing because unless you have the FALO (heavy barrel metric-pattern automatic rifle) or L2A1 or C2A1 (heavy barrel inch-pattern automatic rifle), the standard FAL rifle is totally uncontrollable in full-auto.  (The weight of the automatic rifle with a loaded 30-round magazine is about 18 pounds, and that weight helps keep the weapon under control.  The standard FAL rifle is over six pounds lighter and not controllable in full-auto.) 
 
Example:  I watched a demo of 5 man-sized targets engaged with a FAL set to full-auto, 20 rounds, at 25 yards.  Care to guess how many hits were scored?  One solid hit and one grazing hit, with 18 total misses! 
 
Then the selector was set to semi-auto and the shooter engaged his targets with two shots apiece.  In slightly more time than it took to empty the FAL magazine in full-auto, the shooter got two killing hits on each target and had 10 rounds to spare as backup.
 
Putting full-auto on a FAL (unless you've got the heavy barrel automatic rifle variant) is silly and wastes ammo.  That's why the inch-pattern rifles have safeties that only allow rotation between safe and semi-auto positions.  On metric guns, either a special safety selector is used with a pin that stops rotation at two positions, or the selector itself hits the edge of the receiver to prevent more than two position rotation. 

Reply
 Message 5 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameG_FALSent: 7/15/2008 3:16 AM
Changing a full auto selector into a semiauto FAL also increases
the potential for an out of battery fire.
That means the rifle could fire before the bolt is fully locked up.
The bolt/carrier design usually prevents this by not allowing the hammer
to hit the firing pin directly while travelling forward, but any increased
risk is too much for me.
 
You are also leaving out the fact that the bolt carrier has a notch on it
that contacts the safety/auto sear thereby releasing the hammer when it
locks the bolt into battery. Some of the rifles imported had this done to
prevent easy conversion to auto fire. They also had a longer trigger spring
plunger pin that prevented the trigger from being depressed the extra amount
needed to release the safety sear.

Reply
 Message 6 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunner01Sent: 7/15/2008 4:01 AM
G_FAL is quite correct about the dynamics of the safety selector and safety sear arrangement (and the bolt carrier).  As noted, attempted conversions are not as easily accomplished as it appears on the surface.  In fact, there are some factors present that could make things quite dangerous.    
 
All the upper receivers that have been marketed for sale in the U.S. have been without the safety sear and sear cut ejector blocks to prevent any kind of conversion to full-auto.  Without these two key parts installed, the rifle will always be a semi-auto.
 
There are critical part relationships that need to be present in a semi-auto only FAL (inch- or metric-pattern).  These critical part relationships are the locking shoulder, bolt assembly, bolt carrier, hammer, trigger, and sear.  If you are unsure about them, you should see a good gunsmith who understands the rifle and how these parts need to be setup.  I can recommend three excellent gunsmiths that I have personally used and can attest to the quality of their work, if needed.
 
   
 
 

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 7 of 8 in Discussion 
Sent: 7/15/2008 5:58 AM
This message has been deleted by the author.

Reply
 Message 8 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamekammat1Sent: 7/15/2008 6:05 AM
Thnaks guys. i have only had limited experience with both the L1A1 and L2A1, despite owning a L1A1 for a while, but havent had a chance to play with them for a looong time. (Yes, i'm one of those unfortunate people who live in Australia.)

First  Previous  2-8 of 8  Next  Last 
Return to Ask the Armourer