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General : Newbie has a question.
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 Message 1 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamesarmack1  (Original Message)Sent: 12/13/2007 4:10 PM
New guy here. Ive had a few FALs over the years but I dont know them as well as AR-15s. I recently picked up on trade a FAL set up in the short paratrooper style in inch pattern. The question I have is the front sight is at its lowest setting and Im still about 5 inches low at 50 yards. I didnt fill it was worth the ammo or my time to try it at 100 yards which is the distance I usually zero my rifles. I have considered mounting some type of optic but I would still like to be able to use the irons. Any advice will be welcomed.


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 Message 2 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunnerSent: 12/14/2007 2:18 AM
From the description of your problem, it may be one of several things.
 
Can you provide photos of the rear sight, front sight and gas block?  Also, if the barrel length is shorter than 21 or 18 inches, this is a commercial barrel and that may have a factor?

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 Message 3 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamesarmack1Sent: 12/14/2007 1:57 PM
Sorry cant post any pictures at this time. I believe this rifle was built from a parts kit. The builder seemed to know what he was doing. There are a bunch of internal/external parts marked US. The barrel has been cut to about 18" and recrowned. The rear sight is a flip sight marked 150-250. One thing I dont understand is that someone went to all the trouble to rebuild this rifle and do a nice job on it and then left a mutilated front sight in place. At 50 yards I can get a sight picture but beyond that it would be a gamble. It is about 1/2 of what it should be. Hope this helps. Thanks for any input you might have. 

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 Message 4 of 12 in Discussion 
From: jimmieZSent: 12/14/2007 11:05 PM
Remember, when working with  the front sight, you need to RAISE the front sight post to LOWER the point of impact. Your first post said you had the front sight as low as it would go & were still impacting low at 50 yds.




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 Message 5 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunner01Sent: 12/15/2007 12:23 AM
Here's some photos that might help.
 
 
 
Above: This is an L1A1 sight.  There is a longitundinal slot from top to bottom on one side that acts as a lock for the cone point setscrew that holds the sight in the adjusted position.
 
Below:  The L1A1 front gas block with its attaching parts.  The setcrew has to be loosened to adjust the front sight up or down.  Screw the sight DOWN to raise the bullet strike; screw the sight UP to lower the bullet strike.  The same kind of elevation adjustments are similar to those on AR-15 and M16/M4 rifles.
 
 
 
 
Above:  The L1A1 rear sight has a folding aperture.  Meteric sights are fixed in the upright position.  The folding sight aperture base has a spring loaded detent.  Normal battlesight zero is 200 yards.  To raise the sight push forward until the detent locks the base at the desired range setting.

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 Message 6 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamesarmack1Sent: 12/15/2007 5:28 AM
Yes the front is as low as its going to go. I wish the front sight was as well defined as the one master gunner pictured. Mine is in bad need of replacement. My rear sight does not have a detent button nor is it mounted on a rail. Mine is very close to being like the old M16-A1 rear sight.

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 Message 7 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunner01Sent: 12/15/2007 10:08 PM
Does your gas block have the setscrew that locks the front sight in position?  Only Inch-gas blocks do.  If it doesn't have the locking setscrew, the gas block is Metric-pattern. 
 
Identification is very important of Inch-pattern and Metric-pattern gas blocks.  You can swap Inch gas blocks on Inch barrels; ditto for Metric.  You cannot mix the two because the gas ports are drilled differently -- Inch are drilled on an angle and Metric are drilled vertically. 
 
If you've positively identified your rear sight as Inch and your gas block as Inch, then do as follows.  Loosen the front sight setscrew and turn the front sight DOWN as far as it will go (which raises the bullet strike on the target).  If you're still shooting low, you can carefully shorten the front sight length.  This will allow the sight to go down further in the gas block and bring the point of impact (POI) up. 
 
Before this, do your zeroing at 25 yards.  When I'm messing around with rough sighting-in a rifle, I do it with a laser boresight.  These come in either the chamber insert variety or one that's inserted on an expanding arbor into the bore of the rifle.  The laser boresight will cost between $50 and $100 depending on what kind you get, but you will save money because you won't be wasting expensive ammo.  The price of 7.62 NATO has gone through the roof in the last several years, so a laser boresight just makes good economic sense.
 
Back to sighting-in.  I assume the following conditions when you use the boresight: (1) sight from 25 yards, (2) sight-in from a bench, and (3) sight-in using supporting sandbags or a rifle rest.  Put the laser dot on the center of the zeroing target crosshair and note the position of the dot relative to the iron sights.  Make the necessary adjustments to windage first so that the vertical centerline of the bore and rear/front sight are the same. 
 
Now ajust the front sight so that it's about an inch or two above the crosshair intersection and laser dot.  Remove the boresight.  Fire three rounds at 25 yards to see where the rifle is shooting.  If you get a good group, go to 100 yards and check the zero.  Do not zero at 50 yards.  If you do, your sights will really be off -- start at 25 and go to 100.  If you get consistent bullseyes at 100 yards with this sight setting, raise the POI an inch or two for  a 200 yard battle sight setting. 
 
Here's a 100/200 meter benchrest type target.
 

  

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 Message 8 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameruralrecyclersSent: 12/19/2007 3:38 AM
by your description you have the metric para sight on the rear. it is lower than an inch sight. you will never get them to line up. either change the rear sight or pit on a metric gas block.
the easiest is to change the sight. is it a folding para. it will need a modification to the hinge to allow the inch sight if it is a folder.

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 Message 9 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamesarmack1Sent: 12/19/2007 5:29 AM
Thanks. Didnt even think about the rear sight (metric vs inch). Will replace it after we get through christmas. Will also replace the sorry excuse I have for a front sight. Next question any good suggestions where to look for the parts? DSA maybe?

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 Message 10 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunner01Sent: 12/19/2007 7:49 PM
Beware: swapping Inch and Metric gas blocks should not be done.  The gas ports do NOT align.  Inch gas blocks are bored on a 45 degree angle; Metric gas blocks are bored vertically (through the threaded hole for the front sight).  Bottom line, you may have to replace your Inch barrel with a Metric barrel OR you can modify your para lower (like the South Africans did) to use the standard FAL rifle sight.  You can replace the Metric Para rear sight with an standard L1A1 rifle sight.  I think the modification approach is cheaper in the long run.  I have several trusted folks who can do this for you. 
 
Also, if your L1A1 front sight is buggered up, don't forget to replace it.
 
Here are some photos that show the standard Metric FAL Para 50.63 with 18-inch barrel and the South African modification.
 
 
 
Above:  A Belgian FAL Para 50.63 with folding stock, folding cocking handle, and general arrangement.  Note the height of the sights (front and rear) that are shorter than Inch.  The Inch and Metric gas blocks are NOT interchangeable because the gas ports do not align.  Inch gas blocks are higher.
 
Below: A South African FAL Para that shows the modification to use the standard FAL rifle sight.  The FAL aperture is shorter than the folding aperture of the L1A1.  The sling swivel was relocated to the lower part of the mounting block and the top of the block relieved to accept the rifle sight.  This is my recommendation to solve your misaligned sight problem.
 
 

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 Message 11 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamesarmack1Sent: 12/20/2007 5:25 AM
Thanks Gunner. After Christmas has passed I plan on seeing what I can do to fix this. Good advice all the way around. Thanks to everyone.

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 Message 12 of 12 in Discussion 
From: emconutSent: 12/21/2007 12:36 AM
I was rebuilding a FAL for my own use
It was ex chopper and well used and abused
Major problems were
1) hacksawed flash eliminater ( thru thread )
2) Split and badly welded up gas block
Looking in in my trash-can i found
1) an unused M16 birdcage
2) a very used L1 gas block ( Fore-Sight hole stripped )
3) a L1A4 top cover complete with leaf sight ( in need of panel-beating )
4) a piece of 1/4 in threaded rod ( new fore-sight blade )
Re-drilled block to match barrel
threaded barrel to suit bird-cage
chopped top off top of peep sight ( 'U'sight )

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