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Welcome aboard mate....! We generally don't discrimate against Poms but it depends on what is happening in the cricket (or Rugby or ....)  When it come sto the SA80 the only question I have is WHY ..?????????????? LOL Did the upgrade/refit program I have heard about (H&K ?) make a real difference ? I shot them out here in the late 80s at the Infantry Centre and later on with one of the teams that came out for AASAM. Andy |
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Welcome aboard, Paul! Since your well acquainted with the L4A4 conversions of the Bren, you'll appreciate this. One morning in 1970, I went over to the SEAL hut at our Advanced Tactical Support Base (ATSB) called SOLID ANCHOR located at Nam Can in Vietnam. (Shows you what an old dinosaur I am.) I met Chief Tommy Hatchet (SEAL) at the door -- he was about 6'2", with a V-shape of a swimmer with wide shoulders and narrow waist -- and he filled up most of the doorway. Tommy was one of the first black guys to come through UDT (he'd converted to SEALs) and was one heck of a warrior. Anyhow, one of his guys had said they'd captured a weapons cache and were looking for some assistance in identifying their captures. One of the first things a blurted out after I came in, "Where did you get the Czech ZB-26 light machine gun?" "Which one is that?" "This one here", picking up the gun and checking it over. By this time, a bunch of the other SEALs in the platoon has wandered over for the show. "Chief, this is a Czech-built version of the World War 2 British Bren gun that was the equivalent of our old Browning Automatic Rifle in the rifle squad. In fact, the Bren was a licensed for British manufacture by the Czechs. The Brits made their guns in .303 and the Czechs used the German 8mm Mauser round. This gun's 8mm Mauser caliber." One of the other SEALs piped up, "Yeah. We found the gun sited to cover the trail we came in on. If the position had been manned we'd have been dead meat." He then showed me some of the captured ammo and spare magazines. The ammo head stamps indicated WW2 German production. It had not been well cared for and the other SEAL continued, "We tried it out, but we couldn't get any of it to shoot -- fortunately." "I'm not surprised. This WW2 ammo is in pretty bad shape. The Germans didn't waterproof their ammo back then and this environment hasn't helped alot. That definitely saved you on this op. My guess is that this gun was captured by the French at the end of WW2 from the Germans. They brought it over to Indochina when they were fighting with the Viet Minh and it was probably captured from them. When the Viet Minh became the Viet Cong, they just passed the gun and the ammo and magazines along." We then had an impromptu training class on the care and feeding of the ZB-26/30 light machine gun. One thing that I found was there were some interesting similarities to the Browning Automatic Rifle's internals. Epilogue: The SEALs retuned the Czech ZB-26/30 back to Coronado, California, when the platoon rotated home. So far as I know, it's still in their small museum at the Amphibious base to this day. |
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Hi Andy, less of the Pom Mate, im Scottish. So im a sweaty sock ( Jock) !! Anyway, As a Design idea the SA80 was top notch. The SLR was too long and clumsy for use in AFV's so the Bullpup looked ideal. If it wasn't for the Yanks we would of had the EM2 back in the 50's anyway. The SA80 prototypes were handmade and worked fine; The production weapons were not and were bloody awful!!
The weapon wasn't properly developed before introduction and many faults and problems came to light. Anyway. The A2 upgrade seems to have made the weapon much more reliable. It was always accurate, much better than the M16 or Steyr, or any modern battle Rifle for that matter. The trigger is heavy and the balance is so-so. The HK A2 Mags are shit hot. The SUSAT Sight always was a good piece of kit and remains so. I have 76 L85A2's in my Armoury, but as we are a recce unit our Rifles have iron sights. Our L86A2 LSw,s have SUSAT Sights. The ergonomics of the Weapon are unusual but you get used to it after a while. But the number one fault in my eyes is that it is Right handed only. That pissed off loads of lefties when we changed over from the L1A1. Hope my babbling is of some interest mate. I can post the official REME AESP ( Army Equipment Support Publication) list of parts that were changed on the A2, if that would be of interest. All the best, Paul.
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: SA80 FAMILY
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:53:50 -0800
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SA80 FAMILY
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| From: AndytheAussie |
Welcome aboard mate....! We generally don't discrimate against Poms but it depends on what is happening in the cricket (or Rugby or ....)
When it come sto the SA80 the only question I have is WHY ..?????????????? LOL Did the upgrade/refit program I have heard about (H&K ?) make a real difference ?
I shot them out here in the late 80s at the Infantry Centre and later on with one of the teams that came out for AASAM.
Andy
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On an added note as a former almost end user, the non left handed use
not only pisses of lefties but righties too. It meant 'left handed
cover' could not be fully used therefore exposing more of the firers
body than is desireable....
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I'm glad I started the new discussion thread. The L85/L86 (or SA80, if you will) has always been an interesting story from the get go. Like its American cousin, the AR-15/M16/M4, controversy has swirled about these rifles since they were first accepted for service. My bullpup experience is restricted to the Steyr AUG. The Austrians got it correct when they designed the rifle for both right and left handed shooters. Why the UK didn't do that with their bullpup is mind-boggling. Heck, even the French (!) got it correct in the FAMAS, so why not the SA80? I guess we'll never know, but how it was accepted for service in such a deplorable condition just leaves one scratching one's head. Bullpups are interesting rifles with lots of potential. However, I was really never happy with that trigger on the AUG. Mine was non-selective fire only so I didn't have to contend with the two stage trigger -- semi, then full auto -- I just had a uniformly bad single stage trigger pull. There is absolutely no way that you can tune the components in the fire control module because even those parts are made of plastic! I did not like the built-in 1-power optical sight, but I did like the innovative gas system and quick-change barrel on the AUG. The folding fore grip took some getting used to, though. Everything that I've heard about the L85A2 and L86A2 remanufacture of the 'A1 configurations has been positive. H&K really seems to have gotten things corrected as far as the mechanics are concerned. Why it took all these years has to be a real irritation for the end users who are at the tip of the spear. The most personal of weapons is the soldier's rifle. He bets his life on it and it's gotta work all the time. If it doesn't he's in big trouble. This fact of life should be pretty obvious, but I guess for some pencil pushers, it's a little beyond their pay grade. Whatever information you might be able to share with us on these rifles would be appreciated. There's not a lot of information out there on these rifles and there certainly is a lot of "buzz" about them -- mostly bad experiences. Here's the chance to confirm things or set the record straight. Welcome aboard. |
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| | | From: 2feral2 | Sent: 1/27/2008 11:28 PM |
Welcome to the site Paul. I have plenty of pics WRT the A2, which I took at AASAM a while back. I am sure some are on here, no doubt in the AASAM albums, so do have a squizz. Cheers, Wes |
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Hey, Paul, Is there some information you can post that shows the differences in parts between the L85A1/L86A1 and the upgraded L85A2/L86A2 rifles? This would be really helpful as there isn't a lot of information that I've been able to turn up. BTW, did H&K ever get that stupid gas cutoff for grenades redesigned? In the 'A1 series, it could be installed WRONG so that the detent ball snapped into the gas port and rendered the rifle into a straight-pull repeater. The fix was to drill and tap the barrel opposite the gas port, insert a punch to push down the detent ball, and fill up the hole with a set screw set in thread locking compound. What a Rube Goldberg fix! Also, do you have any information you could post on the L4A4 7.62 NATO Bren conversions. That would really be interesting. Are the L4's still retained in war reserve, or are they being given the "chop"? MG |
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