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Jokes & Humour : AK-47 vs. AR-15 (M16) vs. Moisin-Nagant
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 Message 1 of 2 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunner  (Original Message)Sent: 7/18/2007 7:30 PM
 
The following was sent to me in jest by one of my correspondents who got if from a Marine correspondent of his.  There is a lot of truth in this: a comparison of the AK-47 to the AR-15 (M16) to the 1891 Moisin-Nagant rifles.
 
AK: It works though you have never cleaned it -- ever.
AR: You have $9 per ounce special non-detergent synthetic Teflon infused oil for cleaning.
MN: It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945.

AK: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from inside.
AR: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from 600 meters.
MN: You can hit the farm from two counties over.

AK: Cheap magazines are fun to buy.
AR: Cheap magazines melt.
MN: What's a magazine?

AK: Your safety can be heard from 300 meters away.
AR: You can silently flip off the safety with your finger on the trigger.
MN: What's a safety?

AK: Your rifle comes with a cheap nylon sling.
AR: Your rifle has a 9 point stealth tactical suspension system.
MN: Your rifle has dog collars.

AK: Your bayonet makes a good wire cutter.
AR: Your bayonet is actually a pretty good steak knife.
MN: Your bayonet is longer than your leg.

AK: You can put a .30" hole through 12" of oak, if you can hit it.
AR: You can put one hole in a paper target at 100 meters with 30 rounds.
MN: You can knock down everyone else's target with the shock wave of your  bullet going downrange.

AK: When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club.
AR: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great wiffle bat.
MN: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

AK: Recoil is manageable, even fun.
AR: What's recoil?
MN: Recoil is often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.

AK: Your sight adjustment goes to "10", and you've never bothered moving it.
AR: Your sight adjustment is incremented in fractions of minute of angle.
MN: Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you've actually tried it.

AK: Your rifle can be used by any two bit nation's most illiterate conscripts to fight elite forces worldwide.
AR: Your rifle is used by elite forces worldwide to fight two bit nations' most illiterate conscripts.
MN: Your rifle has fought against itself and won every time.

AK: Your rifle won some revolutions.
AR: Your rifle won the Cold War.
MN: Your rifle won a pole vault event.

AK: You paid $350.
AR: You paid $900.
MN: You paid $59.95.

AK: You buy cheap ammo by the case.
AR: You lovingly reload precision crafted rounds one by one.
MN: You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and it works just fine.

AK: You can intimidate your foe with the bayonet mounted.
AR: Your foes laugh when you mount your bayonet.
MN: You can bayonet your foe on the other side of the river without leaving the comfort of your hole.

AK: Service life, 50 years.
AR: Service life, 40 years.
MN: Service life, 100 years, and counting.
 
AK: It's easier to buy a new rifle when you want to change cartridge sizes.
AR: You can change cartridge sizes with the push of a couple of pins and a new upper.
MN: You believe no real man would dare risk the ridicule of his friends by suggesting there is anything but 7.62x54R.

AK: You can repair your rifle with a big hammer and a swift kick.
AR: You can repair your rifle by taking it to a certified gunsmith and it's under warranty!
MN: If your rifle breaks, you buy a new one.
 
AK: You consider it a badge of honor when you get your handguards to burst into flames.
AR: You consider it a badge of honor when you shoot a sub-MOA 5 shot group.
MN: You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds without the  aid of a 2x4.

AK: After a long day the range you relax by watching "Red Dawn".
AR: After a long day at the range you relax by watching "Blackhawk Down".
MN: After a long day at the range you relax by visiting the chiropractor.

AK: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for a stiff shot of Vodka.
AR: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for hotdogs and apple pie.
MN: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for shishkabob.

AK: You can accessorize you rifle with a new muzzle brake or a nice stock set.
AR: Your rifle's accessories are eight times more valuable than your rifle.
MN: Your rifle's accessory is a small tin can with a funny lid, but it's buried under an apartment building somewhere in Budapest.

AK: Your rifle's finish is varnish and paint.
AR: Your rifle's finish is Teflon and high tech polymers.
MN: Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails.

AK: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Mikhail Kalashnikov.
AR: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Eugene Stoner.
MN: You're not sure there WERE cameras to photograph Sergei Mosin.

AK: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to hold your rifle over your head and shout "Wolverines!"
AR: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to clear your house, slicing the pie from room to room.
MN: Late at night, you sometimes have to fight the urge to dig a fighting trench in the yard to sleep in.


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 Message 2 of 2 in Discussion 
From: MasterGunner01Sent: 7/19/2007 4:51 PM
 
I sent this tongue-in-cheek comparison of the three rifles to a lot of my former military buddies and they just about broke a blood vessel laughing.  One of them, a retired Navy SEAL Captain (that's a full bird colonel for the Marines, Army, and USAF) who's about as ornery as a razor wire fence, did something that he rarely does -- he sent it on to HIS buddies on his list (and I got it back from one of them)!  Talk about what goes around comes around.
 
For some of those who aren't as small arms oriented as others, the Model M1891 Moisin-Nagant rifle became the standard Russian infantry arm under the Tsar.  It originally came with an absurdly long barrel and a cruciform socket bayonet.  The Model '91 fought in World War 1 against the Germans.  After the Tsar was deposed in 1917, it was used by both pro- and anti-Soviet forces in the Russian Civil War that followed.  It soldier on into World War 2 and was used as an infantry rifle, sniper rifle, and cavalry carbine.  It turned up again in Korea and in Vietnam.  It was manufactured by Russia, China, and a lot of the Warsaw Pact countries.  The Finns used their versions against the Russians when they invaded Finnland during the winter of 1939-1940 and the Continuation War after 1941 to 1945.
 
The most commonly found variation of the Model '91 in Vietnam was the Model 1944 carbine.  This was a cutdown rifle with a permanently attached bayonet attached to the left side that folded back when it was not fixed.  Shooting the Model '91 was not a pleasant experience -- especially for your average Vietnamese where the rifle was about 10% of his body weight.  The rifle shoots the 7.62x54R rimmed cartridge (also from 1891) whose ballistics are roughly the same as the .30-06.  The bullet shot by the '91, depending on the loading is between 170 and 200 grains -- very heavy.  Our M2 .30-06 loading is a 150 grain bullet and that of the 7.62x51 NATO is 147 grains.
 
Recently, a lot of surplus Model '91s have come to our shores.  If you are looking for a simple bolt action rifle that's homely as an outhouse, is cheap, uses powerful ammo that's relatively cheap, then take a look at the Moisin-Nagant. 
 
Speaking of snipers and the Model 1891/30 rifle, here's the story of the greatest woman sniper.
 

LYUDMILA PAVLICHENKO
THE GREATEST WOMAN SNIPER

by 

Thomas W Bruner

On 12 July 1916, a girl was born in Ukraine in the small village of Belaya Tserkov . She became a bright student in her elementary years.  By the time she was fourteen, her parents moved to Kiev, the capital of Ukraine. At that time she  joined a shooting club and developed into a sharpshooter. She also worked at an arsenal as a grinder. Her name was Lyudmila Mikhailovna Pavlichenko; the greatest female sniper who every lived.

In June of 1941, the Germans launched Operation Barbarosa attacking the Soviet Union. Lyudmila was studying at the Kiev University. She was 24-years-old and majoring in history. Many of the Russian students rushed to join the military. Lyuda was an exceptionally beautiful young girl. When she went to the recruiter, she requested to join the infantry and carry a rifle. The recruiter laughed at her. She pulled out a marksmanship certificate to prove her worth. He wanted her to become nurse. Being strong willed, she refused. She signed up with the 25th Infantry Division. She became one of the two-thousand women Soviet snipers of which only about 500 survived the war. As a sniper, she made her first two kills near Belyayevka. Her rifle was a Mosin-Nagent Russian sniper rifle with a P.E. 4-power scope. The Mosin-Nagent was a 5-shot bolt action rifle. It fired a 148gr bullet at a velocity of 2800 fps. It was effective out to 600 yards.

Pvt. Pavlichenko fought about two and a half months near Odessa. There, she recorded 187 kills. The Germans gained control of Odessa, and her unit was pulled to be sent to Sevastopol on the Crimean Peninsula. In June 1942, she was wounded by mortar fire . In May 1942, Lieutenant Pavlichenko was cited by the Southern Red Army Council for killing 257 German soldiers. Her total confirmed kills during WWII was 309 enemy.  Lyudmila killed 36 enemy snipers. She found the kill logbook of one of the Nazi snipers she killed. He had taken the lives of over 500 Soviet snipers.

Because Lyudmila was a hero, less than a month after receiving her wound, she was pulled from combat. She was sent to Canada and the United States. She became the first Soviet citizen to be received by a U.S. President.  President and Mrs. Roosevelt welcomed her at the White House. Lyudmila was invited by Eleanor Roosevelt to tour America relating her experiences. She was invited to appear before the International Student Assembly being held in Washington, D.C., where she received a heros welcome. Later she attended C.I.O. meetings and made appearances and speeches in New York City. In Canada, she was presented with a Winchester rifle with an optical sight, which is now on display at the Central Museum of the Armed Forces in Moscow. When she left for her return to the Soviet Union, she was presented with a Colt semi-automatic pistol.

Having attained the rank of Major, Pavlichenko never returned to fighting but instead became an instructor. She trained hundreds of Soviet snipers until the wars end. In 1943 she received the Gold Star of the title of  Hero of the Soviet Union. Lyudmila returned to Kiev State University. From 1945 to 1953, she was a research assistant of the Chief HQ of the Soviet Navy. She also was involved in numerous international conferences and congresses. She was active in the Soviet Committee of the Veterans of War.

Lyudmila Pavlichenko died on 10 October 1974 at age 58 and is buried at the Novodevichiye Cemetery in Moscow.

Above:  A Russian Model 1891/30 sniper rifle with PE scope and socket bayonet.  The Russians moderized the rifle in 1930 for more efficient production.  This particular rifle has a turned-down bolt handle.  The projection ahead of the trigger guard is the magazine for the 7.62x54R cartridges.  The Russians intended for their troops to have their bayonets mounted on the rifle the majority of the time and, although scabbards for the bayonet existed, most of the time it was not issued.  Peculiar to the Model 91/30 are the oval disks with slots that pass through the stock.  These are the sling attachment points.  The Russians used a cloth sling with leather loops on both ends that fed through the slots.  This feature was retained on rifles made by China and other Warsaw Pact countries.  China and Vietnam used this kind of sling on their Type 56 AK rifles and SKS carbines.  These slings were very common on the weapons used by the VC/NVA during the Vietnam War.