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BonaFidePolitics : Why NOT Obama
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(1 recommendation so far) Message 1 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWomyn of_3©  (Original Message)Sent: 5/11/2008 3:26 PM
These were statements in another group that I am seeing more and more from womyn.
 
Obama is the true feminist.
What? Obama is a MAN.
 
I would LOVE to vote for a woman for president.....as I've said before, I've been waiting my whole adult life for that.......but not this woman, not this time.
If not now - then when?
Womyn still earn 76% of what men do. They receive less in health benefits, less in pensions, less in Social Security. They receive little help for the rising cost of child care. They make up 71% of all Medicaid beneficiaries, and a full two-thirds of all the Americans who lost their health care this year. When womyn go on maternity leave, America is the only country in the industrialized world to let them go unpaid. When their children become sick and are sent home from school, many mothers are forced to choose between caring for their child and keeping their job.
 
So how does Obama relate to this?
How many times has he had to decide to leave work to care for a sick child? Will  he only receive  a percentage of his SS benefits?
 
Obama is a MAN.
Second Verse - Same as the first.
Are you 'll suffering from CNN overdose?
 
 
against requiring medical care for aborted fetuses who survive: Illinois' Born Alive Infant Protection Act
 
 


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(1 recommendation so far) Message 2 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKyKarenSueSent: 5/12/2008 12:06 AM
You've got to be joking Womyn......you don't think a man can be a feminist?  Of course they can and should be. 
 
I'll vote for a woman when we have one worth voting for, and not just because she's a woman but because she's a strong candidate on her own and doesn't need her "husband" to shore up her campaign. 
 
Sorry, I don't watch CNN.  Too much news repeated over and over will make you brain dead.
 
You ask these silly questions regarding when is the last time that Obama blah, blah, blah....why not ask the same of Hillary?  She's never had to worry about any of those things either.  Obama has a strong wife with her own opinions and two small daughters.  There are many men out there who are considered feminists not because they have to be (like a woman) but because they know it's the right thing to be.  Egad.....why would I vote for a woman, just because she's a woman?  
 
I'll vote for a woman, when there is a strong one running for office....not Hillary.    

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(1 recommendation so far) Message 3 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWomyn of_3©Sent: 5/12/2008 9:23 AM
MSN was acting up this morning and wouldn't let me into TAE.
No, I'm not joking. A man may be able to be sympathetic with feminist issues. But calling a man a feminist is like thinking they really want to trade places with you while you are in delivery having full blown contractions. If you have delivered a child, then you probably heard from your husband, 'I'd do it for you if I could, hun." Realistically, it's nice to hear but ..... really - think it would happen?

I watch him whip crowds into a hoopla as if they were attending a tent revival; I hear talk of stats from him; I hear what he thinks needs to be fixed; I don't hear how he will fix it. I heard Obama distance himself from Reverend Wright and state that his 20 some-odd-years pastor's views were not his. I saw the snippets on YouTube and thought they were just random pieces of video that someone had found and was using for spin. Then I watched Rev. Wright talk at the Detroit NAACP. There is a transcript here: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/wright.transcript/ . There were good points in his speech. Had a Caucasian delivered that speech and imitated King as Rev. Wright imitated Kennedy, they would have been called a racist. I haven't heard or read that; the strongest term used for Wright was to label him as 'divisive'.

As I said there were good points in Rev. Wright's speech:
"Many of us are committed to changing how we see ourselves. Many of us are committed to changing the way we treat each other. Many of us are committed to changing the way we mistreat each other. And many of us finally are committed to changing this world that we live in so our children and our grandchildren will have a world in which to live in to grow in, to learn in, to love in and to pass on to their children. We are committed to changing this world that's God's world, in the first place. Not ours. And I believe we can do it. It's going to take hard work, but we can do it."

 So what has Obama denounced by denouncing Rev. Wright and saying he did not share those views? Didn't Rev. Wright inspire one of Obama's books? And didn't Obama say he would go after the 1% of Americans making over $200,000, or $250,000,  who are doing well? Aren't they the ones the Rev. Wright called rich, white Americans? And doesn't Obama qualify as part of that 1% because of his bi-racial heritage? Which by the way means he will not be the first bi-racial president.

Now yesterday I hear Clinton quoted as saying, "... that an Associated Press article showed how Sen. Barack Obama's support among "working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me." Why is it different because she quoted it, rather than some reporter or analyst saying it? How is that different from a reporter saying that Obama has the support of 78% of black Americans? Or saying that polls show Clinton is losing support among black Americans because in Indiana and in North Carolina nine out of ten black voters chose Obama.

There has also been numerous reports stating she should quit.  These reports are not recent. Some have been saying it before Florida, Ohio, Texas, or Pennsylvania, and as far back as New Hampshire. Perhaps she would accept the VP position.
Accept the VP position?
Why doesn't the Democratic party just pat her on her head and tell her to go home like a good little girl? Accept the VP position, indeed.

Personally, I want to see some fighting over who wants my vote. Votes are important enough to fight for. Everytime Clinton has brought up something that could be harmful to Obama you hear pundits and reporters racking off how unseemly it is that she has done it. Give me a break. They have a problem with her going outside the box of 'good little girl'? They have a problem with a powerful womyn? What do they think the Republicans will do if Obama is the Democratic candidate? His pat 'I choose not to engage...' reaction is not going to cut it in the election. They will have him for lunch the first time he doesn't engage. And McCain will be president.
 
So, yes, vote for her because she is a womyn. She'll be the first womyn president; and she will do things differently. If you don't, then you will have another man, who thinks like a man, acts like a man, and will do things like every other man in the office before him.

Blessed be
 
 
 
 

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 Message 4 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKyKarenSueSent: 5/12/2008 5:07 PM
To quote the controversial Rev.Wright....."Oh no, no, no"  I will not vote for Hillary, to settle and vote because she's a woman, "Oh, no, no, no".  By your reasoning Womyn, I should have supported the candidacy of Elizabeth Dole, when she ran.  To assume a man does not know the plight of a woman, is to assume that someone cannot understand the plight of someone who has cancer, or has been raped, or is blind......just because you haven't experience them, doesn't mean you cannot work for them or know that their road is hard.  To say a man cannot be a feminist, is saying NO MAN has ever been raised by a single mother.  To say a man cannot fight the good fight for women is to say men never played a role in the movement of women's equality and that simply isn't the case. 
 
I defended Rev.Wright to say what he did, and still do, although just as Obama, I've decided that Rev. Wright has his own agenda which has absolutely NOTHING to do with furthering his Christianity or to not do harm to Obama's campaign.  It is very possible for you to be inspired by someone for 20 years and not really know them....look at Hillary and Bill.  And unless you are in the top most 1% of the economic ladder, then I think you and those in the lower 99% are way too concerned about their taxes and how they will somehow be mistreated.  Believe me, they are not worrying about you paying over a third of your income in taxes and  they a mere 15%. 
 
You complain about what Rev.Wright says, and compare it to what Clinton said, but the reality of it is that Rev. Wright is not running for president, but Clinton is.  Clinton, the supposed feminist, has a record of belittling women who chose to stay at home, like I did.  I baked cookies, and I'm proud of it. 
 
I raised two independent and talented women, and whatever their choices, I will support them.  My mother was a career woman and so were both of my grandmothers, one being a small business owner.  The women in my family, which includes my sister, my neices and my daughters all are supporting Obama, not because they are not feminist, because they ARE, but because they feel that he is the best candidate for the future of our country, including women.  My mother is the only woman in our family that is a Hillary supporter and it is purely because she is a woman, and she has stated so.  I don't think that is a good enough reason.  I'm sorry but I will be so very disappointed if she happens to be the next president because I think there will be very little change in Washington and it will be business as usual.     

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 Message 5 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKyKarenSueSent: 5/12/2008 6:13 PM
BTW, I hope that when Obama wins the nomination, that he DOESN'T ask Hillary to be his running mate.....I'll think much less of him if he does.

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 Message 6 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Beth©Sent: 5/13/2008 11:55 AM
Obama is the true feminist.
What? Obama is a MAN.
 
Mu husband is a true feminist.....supporting and understanding are not gender-based. While we cannot ever know the nitty gritty of things we will not directly experience, we can certainly understand those experiences in most ways.
 
Unless, of course, we want to decide what are woman and what are men things and only allow comments/votes/ideas by gender alone.
 
It does happen that there are men that want to and do know about the female experience. It also happens in the reverse.
 
I am sorry that you have not known any men that are true feminists. They are very interesting people and worth knowing.

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 Message 7 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWomyn of_3©Sent: 5/14/2008 5:53 AM
Between the storms and everything gettting rerouted; gettting in is a pain!

What you both are describing is what I said - A man may be able to be sympathetic with feminist issues. They may be supportive; they may try to understand; and I know a good number who avidly support feminists and feminist issues. That doesn't make them feminists.  I did not say " ....a man cannot fight the good fight for womyn,..." nor did I say that "... men never played a role in the movement of womyn's equality.... ". Having " ..a strong wife with her own opinions and two small daughters" does not make Obama a feminist. Being  "..raised by a single mother.." does not make him one.
 
You can be sympathetic, try to understand, be supportive, and work to help someone with cancer. That doesn't mean that you are, or can be, the person who has the cancer.
You can be sympathetic, try to understand, be supportive, and work to help someone who has been raped. That doesn't mean that you are, or can be, the person who has been raped. You can be sympathetic, try to understand, be supportive, and work to help someone who is blind. That doesn't mean that you are, or can be, the person who is blind. And in the same strain: Obama is a man. He can be sympathetic, try to understand, be supportive, and work to help feminists and feminist issues. He can not be a feminist.
 
Clinton is a strong candidate on her own. Her husband and her daughter are campaigning for her. Neither are "shoring up" her campaign anymore that Obama's wife is 'shoring up' his campaign. Clinton does not have "a record of belittling women who chose to stay at home". If I recall correctly, what I think you are refering to is the time she was campaigning for her husband and was being attacked by a republican critic or reporter because she was not at home baking cookies. She said she had been active in children and other issues, and her career and done her best to lead her life. That instead of being at home, she chose to have a professional career before her husband ran for office. She does not belittle a person who chooses to stay home and bake cookies because she, and many others, chose to not work at home, and chose instead, to have a professional career.

As a strong candidate, Clinton has an understanding and view of what needs fixing in this country from within a womyn's perspective. We have had years and years of handling the country's issues and needs from within a man's perspective and a male majority. It is a mess. We need a balance and a lot more years to fix it. If Obama is nominated, then next January we will have President McCain, with a man's perspective.  We need a womyn's perspective and solutions.
 
Blessed be

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 Message 8 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKyKarenSueSent: 5/14/2008 3:05 PM
I totally disagree with almost everything you have said Womyn, but then, that is the way of politics.  Hillary would not even be in the running if it were not for so many people think they are getting a twofer....Bill is the deciding factor.  Secondly, she would not be getting votes is she were "Henry" Clinton instead of "Hillary" Clinton....some women, and you sound like one of them, are voting for her simply because she's a woman and we "we need a womyn's perspective and solutions".   A man can be a feminist (someone who subscribes to the ideology that women are EQUAL to men) and a person who has never had cancer can be an oncologist, like a white person could be a member of MLK's civil rights movement, a straight person can act on, speak out about and be supportive of gay rights, so forth and so on.  We will see who gets the nomination for the democrats this time, and to say if Obama gets the nod then we automatically will get a McCain presidency is a Rovian scare tactic at best.  Someone in the Hillary campaign has been using those tactics all along and they are getting really really old.   

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 Message 9 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Beth©Sent: 5/16/2008 11:29 AM
I was a Hillary supporter when the campaign began. I have voted for her as my Seantor twice.
The nature of the campaign run by those she chose led her down the wrong path. And ultimately that is her responsibility.
It was Sen. Clinton's campaign that caused me to change my mind on what sort of person (often clearly shown by who they surround themselves with) I want to see in the White House.
It makes me more sad than I can tell you.
It was hers to lose. And she did just that

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 Message 10 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameStinky_cheese14Sent: 5/18/2008 7:57 PM
Not to defend Hillary cause my vote it going to McCain, but at least Hillary knows how many states there are.

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