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General : Obama's Birth Record Found in Kenya, Why Hawaii Birth Cert. Fake
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Reply
 Message 1 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGraphicQueen_RV  (Original Message)Sent: 10/9/2008 11:28 AM
This seems to be coming to head very soon. I wonder what it all will mean in the end.

GQ

over at www.NewsWithViews.com/Ryter/jon252.htm NewsWithViews.com:

..reads parts from this below..

DNC JOINS OBAMA TO BLOCK BERG SUIT

By Jon Christian Dryer

October 7, 2008
NewsWithViews.com

Author's Note: This article is a rewrite of last week's article on Philip J. Berg's lawsuit to force Barack Obama to produce a certified copy of his original birth certificate. On Sept. 24 the DNC filed a motion to dismiss the Berg action, which sent Berg scrambling to file a response, which was filed on Sept. 29, providing the date and material which led to my confusion that the order had been signed. Accept my mea culpas. The moment I realized the error I called News With Views and had the article pulled, and posted a recant on my website as well. Here is the most current information on the case, taken from court documents. -- Jon Christian Ryter

On September 29, 2008 Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg, filed a response to a motion to dismiss by defendant Barack Obama who was joined in his effort to quash Berg's lawsuit by the Democratic National Committee, claiming it has no standing to proceed. Berg argued in the brief response that he has provided the precedents which establish the standing and petitioned US District Court Judge R. Barclay Surrick of the Eastern District of Pennsylvania to pursue the case. In his Sept. 29 filing, Berg said: "Plaintiff served discovery in way of Admissions and Request for Production of Documents, on Defendants on September 15, 2008 and has attempted to obtain verification of Obama's eligibility through subpoenas to the government entities and the hospital's in Hawaii. To date, Plaintiffs and two of (2) the locations, which subpoenas were served upon, refused to honor the subpoenas.

"For the above aforementioned reasons, Plaintiff respectfully request Defendants and the Democratic National Committee's Motion to Dismiss pursuant to F.R.C.P. 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6) be denied and order immediate discovery (the unsigned order requiring Obama to produce..." within three (3) days{

1. Obama's "vault" version (certified copy of his "original" long version) birth certificate; and
2. a certified copy of Obama's Certificate of Citizenship;
3. a certified copy of Obama's oath of allegiance."

The certified copy of the citizen of the world's "oath of allegiance" to the United Sates is a document attesting to the fact that the newly "naturalized" citizen (usually an immigrant who has just been granted citizenship) or for native born Americans who have forfeited or otherwise surrendered their citizenship, and have requested reinstatement at their majority, usually 18, has sworn allegiance to the United States and its Constitution.

In this filing, Berg argued that he has legal standing to bring suit against Obama—and the DNC—pursuant to 5 USC §702; 524 US 11 (1998); 8 USC §148(b); 5 USC §552(B); 28 USC §1343 and also standing pursuant to Federal Question Jurisdiction. Berg rightfully claimed he has suffered "...the kind of injury that Congress expected might be addressed under the statute..." since the issue of where Obama was born with conflicting birth certificates and conflicting claims of what hospital Obama was born in—with Obama's own family members claiming he was born at three different hospitals in two countries.

The Obama "Birth Flap" was not of Berg's making. It began in June when National Review's Jim Geraghty raised the question and asked the Obama Campaign to release a copy of his birth certificate in order to prove that he actually was born in the United States. (Reports had previously surfaced claiming that Obama's Kenyan grandmother, Sarah Hussein Obama, told reporters that Obama was not born in Hawaii, but in Kenya. She also reportedly told reporters that when her son, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. returned to Kenya he was accompanied by his pregnant white wife who was close to term.)

Obama's family did not take to Stanley Ann Dunham Obama very well, because she was white, according to Sarah Obama. Shortly after she arrived in Kenya Stanley Ann decided to return to Hawaii because she later said, she did not like how Muslim men treated their wives in Kenya. However, because she was near term the airline would not let her fly until after the birth of her baby. Obama's grandmother said the baby—Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.—was born in Kenya and that shortly after he was born, Stanley Ann returned to Hawaii.

Reportedly, when she arrived back in Hawaii, Stanley Anne registered her son's live birth as an event which had just happened—in Honolulu, Hawaii. This supposition is supported by the appearance, shortly after Nov. 6, 2007, of a Hawaiian birth certificate that was issued, as a duplicate birth certificate, by the State of Hawaii to a US Senator who requested it.

Conservative bloggers on the Internet screamed that the birth certificate, which appeared on the Obama Campaign's "Fight The Smears" website and was also downloaded and used by far left blogger Markos Zuniga on his website, Daily Kos, was forgery concocted by Daily Kos, A self-described cyvbersleuth who uses the cyber-pseudonym Techdude claimed—without ever presenting an actual resum eto support his qualification claims—that the document was a fraud. There is little doubt it is the real McCoy—even if it was issued as a political favor to a prospective Democratic presidential candidate by some innocuous petty official in Hawaii. The clerk who issued the document, which purports to be a copy of an original document, was date stamped "Nov. 6, 2007" on the reverse side of the birth certificate in blue ink which bled through and is visible on the front of the electronic image.

Attorney Philip J. Berg, the former head of the Montgomery County, Pennsylvania Democratic Party and a former member of the Democratic State Convention and, reportedly a Hillary Clinton supporter, wanted to learn the truth from the myriad of rumors that also suggested that Sen. Obama may also have been a citizen of Indonesia. The only consistent part of the story was Stanley Ann returning to Hawaii to claim he had been in the United States and was a US citizen.

In his original lawsuit filing, Berg specifically asked for those three items. Berg told the court that "...at the time Plaintiff's complaint was filed, Plaintiff was requesting protections from the court in order to stop Obama from being nominated by the DNC as the Democratic Presidential Nominee as Obama is not eligible to serve as President of the United States. However, Obama was nominated by the DNC...For that reason, Plaintiff must amend his complaint and will be amending this complaint to file a First Amendment complaint...."

Berg argued that he felt it was the role of the Federal Election Commission to ensure that presidential and congressional candidates are eligible to hold the positions for which they were seeking, and that those candidates run a fair and legitimate campaign. "In vetting the presidential candidate," Berg further said: "the DNC and the FEC are required to ensure the eligibility requirements pursuant to our Constitution are met and the Presidential nominee, if elected, is qualified and eligible to serve pursuant to our United States Constitution. In order to be eligible to run for the Office of President of the United States, you must be a "natural born" citizen.

"There appears to be no question that Defendant Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, WAS a US citizen. It is also undisputed that his father, Barack Obama, Sr., was a citizen of Kenya. Obama's parents, according to divorce recorded, were married on or about February 2, 1961.

"Defendant Obama claims he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii on August 4, 1961 and it is uncertain in which hospital he claims to have been born. Obama's grandmother on his father's side, his half-brother and half-sister all claim Obama was born not in Hawaii but in Kenya. Reports reflect that Obama's mother traveled to Kenya during her pregnancy; however, she was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii. At her late stage of pregnancy (which apparently are normal restrictions, to avoid births during flights). By these reports, Stanley Ann Dunham Obama gave birth to Obama in Kenya, after which she flew home and registered Obama's birth. There are records of a "registry of birth" for Obama, on or about August 8, 1961 in the public records office in Hawaii."

Berg's investigators revealed that Obama's own half-sister Maya Soetoro—with whom he was raised—seemed not to know where her own brother was born. In the Nov., 2004 interview by the Rainbow Newsletter Maya Soetoro said Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961 at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii. In February, 2008 Maya was interviewed by the Star Bulletin. This time she told reporters that Obama was born on August 4, 1961 at the Kaliolani Medical Center for Women and Children. On June 9, 2008 Wayne Madsen, a journalist with Online Journal published an article in which he said a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya and located a Certificate registering the live birth of Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. to his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a US citizen.

Berg's argument to the court was that under the US Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317 (b), a minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of his or her custodial parent. In Obama's case, Berg argued, a minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of his or her custodial father. Obama's Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetora signed a statement acknowledging Obama as his son, giving Obama natural Indonesian citizenship, which explains the name "Barry Soetoro" and his Indonesian school documents. Loss of US citizenship, under US law in effect in 1967 required that foreign citizenship be achieved through "application." Which, according to Berg, is precisely what happened to Obama when his mother married Soetoro and the family moved to Indonesia.

When Obama and his mother moved to Indonesia, Obama had already been enrolled in school—something that could not have happened under Indonesian law if Soetoro had not signed an acknowledgment (the application) affirming that Obama was his son and that he was Indonesian. Thus, it was deemed that Obama was an Indonesian State citizen. (Citizenship of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 9 of 1992 dated 31 Mar. 1992, Indonesia Civil Code): "...State children of Indonesia include: (viii) children who are born outside of legal marriage from foreign State citizen mother who are acknowledged by father who is Indonesian State citizen as his children and that acknowledgment is made prior to children reaching 18 years of age or prior to marriage; Republic of Indonesia Constitution, 1945." Furthermore, under Indonesian law, if a resident Indonesian citizen married a foreigner—in this case, Lolo Soetoro marrying Stanley Ann Obama—she was required to renounce her US citizenship.

In his lawsuit, Berg demanded a copy of Obama's Certificate of Citizenship, a document Obama needed for to regain his citizenship—which was lost in Indonesia. He will have that document only if the proper paperwork was filed with the US State Department when Obama returned to Hawaii in 1971 since that is the only way Obama could regain his US "natural born" status. Berg is convinced that Obama was never naturalized in the United States after his return. Obama returned to his maternal grandparents in Hawaii without his mother. Since she is the only one who could have filed for the reinstatement of his citizenship, it is unlikely it ever happened. If it did, his Certificate of Citizenship would affirm his right to seek the office of President. Without it, Barack Obama is just another resident alien who can't even legally hold his seat in the US Senate.



First  Previous  26-40 of 40  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 26 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWomyn of_3©Sent: 10/17/2008 5:59 AM
Yes, my original birth certificate still exists and so does the original in the Records books. Date, time, place,  parents' names, race, address, doctor's name,  hospital's name, (and some other things, I think, also). 
From what I have read, when his mother married the man from Indonesia, that man adopted Obama and they all moved to Indonesia. His name then was Obama Soetoro and that is what is on his Indonesian school records. He lost his U.S. citizenship because of that.
I also question it since his grandmother says he was born in Kenya. I had friends who had children when they were in Vietnam. The U.S. did not recognize their children as U.S. Citzens. Sometimes it took years and a lot of work just to be able to get their children to come here.
 
Blessed be

Reply
 Message 27 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamenabisco_patti_annSent: 10/17/2008 6:24 AM
Obama is an American citizen.

Reply
 Message 28 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Beth©Sent: 10/17/2008 11:52 AM
Realistically, since the Courts and government accept it, why bother with this nonsense. Those that believe it is fake are in search of more reasons not to vote for him, although I am not sure why there is this need to demonize the one you choose not to support.
Don't vote for him. Or don't vote for McCain. But wasting time and brain cells on this when there are really important things going on in this world always boggles my mind.
 
And, yes, I fell the same way about the questions of McCains birth certificate, and with all the personal stuff about him.
 
There are important things happening. To me, this is not one of them

Reply
 Message 29 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSummerMoondancer1Sent: 10/17/2008 8:32 PM
Womyn actually legally that is wrong.  He was born in the US and under the 14th that is all it takes to be a natural born citizen.  He may well have been adopted but to lose his citizenship he would have had to formally renounce it at an embassy abroad at his eighteen birthday or beyond, adoption does not remove the fact that you were born in the US.  If you remember his father wasn´t an American either, his mother was...he didn´t get adopted by a different mother, just a different father, his mother never renounced her citizenship that I know of...so why would he lose his citizenship?

Reply
 Message 30 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWomyn of_3©Sent: 10/27/2008 4:46 PM
Updates:
st recent:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/26/around-the-nation-14956785/

Judge tosses suit over Obama's birth

PHILADELPHIA | A federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit challenging Sen. Barack Obama's qualifications to be president.

U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick on Friday night rejected the lawsuit by lawyer Philip J. Berg, who charged that Mr. Obama was not a "natural-born citizen" as required by the Constitution to be eligible for the presidency.

Mr. Berg, a former deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania who backed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton in the primaries, claimed that Mr. Obama is either a citizen of his father's native Kenya or became a citizen of Indonesia after he moved there as a boy.

The Obama campaign put on its Web site a copy of his "certification of live birth" that says he was born in Honolulu. But lawsuit backers say that document doesn't settle the issue because such a certification can be obtained after birth; only the person himself or a family member can request a Hawaii birth certificate.

Judge Surrick ruled that Mr. Berg lacked standing to bring the case, saying any harm from a purportedly ineligible candidate was "too vague and its effects too attenuated to confer standing on any and all voters."

So what are the other judges in the other states going to do?

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174
Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html?s=al&promo_code=6E2D-1

 In recent weeks, lawsuits have been filed in seven additional states demanding that Barack Obama produce an original vault copy of his birth certificate, to dispel the rumors that he is not a natural-born United States citizen.

The latest suits have been filed in state and federal courts in Hawaii, Washington, California, Florida, Georgia, New York, and Connecticut to compel Obama to release his birth records.

Lawsuits in Washington(STEVEN R MARQUIS Plaintiff vs. SAMUEL SUMNER REED, ACTING IN THE OFFICE OF WASHINGTON STATE, SECRETARY OF STATE) and Georgia are seeking state superior courts to force the states�?secretary of state, as the chief state elections officer, to require Obama to produce original birth records from Hawaii, or else decertify him as a candidate for the presidency

 
 
And it gets more complicated because of the claims his Kenyan grandmother has reportedly alleged she witnessed Obama's birth at the Coast Provincial Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya:
:
 
 
When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.

Obama's British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the
Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963...

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obama's father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obama's father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.

But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution
prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya's Constitution specifies that at age 21, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982. 


 

Blessed be

Reply
 Message 31 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWomyn of_3©Sent: 10/27/2008 6:09 PM
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174
Since Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the birth certificate under seal : it sort of makes this a little interesting...
 
Blessed be

Reply
 Message 32 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_Beth©Sent: 10/27/2008 7:47 PM
I have to go with what Bill Maher had to say about the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 on this one: People who still think the government brought down the Twin Towers in a controlled explosion have to stop pretending that I'm the one who's being naïve
 
What does it take for someone to deal with the authorities and not with reports from the right wing nutter websites? Look at the source of these reports and then look at the sources that say these reports are all bunk. I am not the niave one here.
 
But there will always be conspiracy theories - and once in a rare while one will have some truth to it. This is not that rare while.

Reply
 Message 33 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGraphicQueen_RVSent: 10/27/2008 8:44 PM
The fact that HI sealed the birth certificate right after Obama got there proves that he did not go there to see sick grandma. Just another LIE from the asshole.
 
Anyone that would listen to Maher for honest political or newsworthy news also shows they don't care about their sources. The reason that there conspiracies is because there are conspiracies. Fact! Now, go ahead and listen for your news from Maher while the rest of us get our news from actuial sources.

Reply
 Message 34 of 40 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSummerMoondancer1Sent: 10/28/2008 6:27 AM
She didn´t put it under seal...this following paragraph that was in thier own report is what is on the web for all birth certificates from Hawaii
 

Those listed as entitled to obtain a copy of an original birth certificate include the person born, or "registrant" according to the legal description from the governor's office, the spouse or parent of the registrant, a descendant of the registrant, a person having a common ancestor with the registrant, a legal guardian of the registrant, or a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant.

 

Now here is what Hawaii office says about all birth certificates...

 

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html

 

All applications requesting certified copies of birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates must generally be made in writing

 

  • If you are applying for a certificate on behalf of someone else, you must provide an original letter signed by that person authorizing the release of their certificate to you.

  • Reply
     Message 35 of 40 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameSummerMoondancer1Sent: 10/28/2008 6:41 AM
    All of the different arguements have zero merit and here is why...
     
    Arguement 1
    Under the Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317(b), "Obama's mother expatriated her U.S. Citizenship when she married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia and relocated her and her son (Obama) to Indonesia."
     
    Berg asserts that under the Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317(b), "Obama's mother expatriated her U.S. Citizenship when she married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia and relocated her and her son (Obama) to Indonesia." Complaint ¶ 31 (see generally ¶¶ 26-32)
     
    "From and after the effective date of this Act, a woman, who was a citizen of the United States at birth, and who has or is believed to have lost her United States citizenship solely by reason of her marriage prior to September 22, 1922, to an alien, and whose marital status with such alien has or shall have terminated, if no other nationality was acquired by affirmative act other than such marriage,shall, from and after the taking of the oath of allegiance prescribed by subsection (b) of section 335 of this Act, be deemed to be a citizen of the United States to the same extent as though her marriage to said alien had taken place on or after September 22, 1922.***"
     
    Section 317(b) applies to people who married to a foreign national prior to 1922. Mr. Berg's pleadings assert that Ms. Dunham married Mr. Soetoro around 1967 -- 45 years after the effective period addressed in this law (See Complaint ¶ 26).  Therefore, this law provides no basis for Mr. Berg's assertions.
     
     
    Arguement 2
     
    Because the Nationality Act of 1940 also provided that a minor became naturalized (in the other country) upon the naturalization of his or her parent having custody of such person, Obama became expatriated by virtue of his mother's marriage and their subsequent relocation to Indonesia
     
    Berg asserts that the Nationality Act of 1940 also provided that a minor became naturalized (in the other country) upon the naturalization of his or her parent having custody of such person. Therefore, Berg argues, Obama lost his US citizenship by virtue of his mother's marriage and their subsequent relocation to Indonesia.
    Assume that the applicable provisions of the Nationality Act of 1940 were in effect at the time that Ms. Dunham-Soetoro moved Obama to Indonesia. What does that Act say about the impact of a parent's actions on a minor's US citizenship?
     
    “A person who is a national of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by: (a) Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state, either upon his own application or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, however, That nationality not be lost as the result of the naturalization of a parent unless and until the child shall have attained the age of twenty-three years without acquiring permanent residence in the United States:.........�?
     
    That Act, at Section 407 said:
    “A person having American nationality, who is a minor and is residing in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who loses American nationality under section 404 of this Act, shall at the same time lose his American nationality if such minor has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, American nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of American nationality by the parent unless and until the child attains the age of twenty-three years without having acquired permanent residence in the United States.�?
     
     
    As quoted above, the Nationality Act of 1940, upon which Berg relies, expressly states that a minor did not lose his US citizenship by virtue of his mother's actions, "unless and until" he turned 23 years old without having taken permanent residence in the United States.
     
    Note also that these provisions of the Act were amended by 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3.  Therefore, the 1952 provisions would have applied to Obama when he moved to Indonesia and then returned to the US in 1971
     
    The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, section 349 (a), provided:
    “From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by -- (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as the result of naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday: ....�?
    Section 355 of that Act provided that:
    “A person having United States nationality, who is under the age of twenty-one and whose residence is in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who hereafter loses United States nationality under section 350 or 352 of this title, shall also lose his United States nationality if such person has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, United States nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of United States nationality by the parent unless and until the person attains the age of twenty-five years without having established his residence in the United States.
     
    Given that Obama returned to the U.S., and established permanent residency there, long before he was either 23 or 25, this distinction is rather irrelevant.  However, we provided it based on Berg's assertion that the law in effect at the time of the events is the correct law to apply.
     
    Arguement 3 
    Although Ms. Dunham-Soetoro returned to Hawaii, she did not regain her US citizenship, because she never took the took the oath of allegiance required under the Nationality Act
     
    As discussed in A, above, Berg's assertion that Ms. Dunham-Soetoro lost her US citizenship upon her marriage to Lolo Soetoro under the Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317(b) is not supported by the law he cites.  That law applied only to persons married prior to 1922.
     
    Since Ms. Dunham-Soetoro never lost her citizenship under Section 317(b) -- because she married Soetoro in the 1960s, long after 1922 -- there was no need to regain her citizenship and/or to take any oath of allegiance.
     
    Arguement 4
     
    Because Obama's mother failed to take that oath, Obama could not regain his US citizenship until he turned 18, and took the oath of allegiance himself.
     
    First:  As discussed in A, above, Berg's assertion that Ms. Dunham-Soetoro lost her US citizenship upon her marriage to Lolo Soetoro under the Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317(b) is not supported by the law he cites.  That law applied only to persons married prior to 1922.
    Since Ms. Dunham-Soetoro never lost her citizenship under Section 317(b) -- because she married Soetoro in the 1960s, long after 1922 -- there was no need to regain her citizenship and/or to take any oath of allegiance.
    Second:  As discussed in B, above, whatever the status of his mother, both the 1940 Nationality Act and the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, which amended the 1940 Act, expressly provided that Obama could not lose his US citizenship by virtue of his mother's actions so long as he returned to the US and established residency before he was 23/25.
     
     
     
     
     

    Reply
     Message 36 of 40 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameSummerMoondancer1Sent: 10/28/2008 6:42 AM

    Reply
     Message 37 of 40 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameSummerMoondancer1Sent: 10/28/2008 6:46 AM
    and the arguement on the validity of his birth certificate
     

    Reply
     Message 38 of 40 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameWomyn of_3©Sent: 10/28/2008 8:59 AM
    I like Maher also.
    I have read the article on both sides of this. That is one reason I put the article from Fact Check in Message 30.
     
     
    In 1961, the father's race would not have been listed as African. It was prior to any sort of Black Panthers or Black Power movement. It would have been Negro/Negroid or Colored. There is also his paternal grandmother saying she was at his birth in Africa at the Coast Provincial Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya. If he was born in Africa as his paternal grandmother states, it disqualifies him. 
     
    My daughter recently had to obtain her original birth certificate to get her driver's license because she forgot to renew it. So I went to the clerk's office in the city where she was born and had them make a copy that looked similar to the one on the Fight the Smears and Daily KOS websites.. Her husband is in the military and so she also has a military ID card. The license branch where she lives would not accept that copy. She had to write to the state capitol to get the vaulted one. Maybe it's because of the military security thing; I don't know. But they said the one I sent to her was not viewed as a valid birth certificate.
     
    Blessed be

    Reply
     Message 39 of 40 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameGraphicQueen_RVSent: 10/28/2008 12:48 PM
    Womyn, that would be because it didn't have the raised seal on it. Missouri and most other states have the same rules and such. The fact is that what has been posted all over the internet is not a birth certificate at all and has no raised seal.
     
    You are right about the race not being African. The funny thing is that though Africa is a continent it is also considered a nationality and not a damn race. Negroid is a race. Caucasion is a race. African is not a damn race no matter what anyone says. An Afric-American can be Caucasion, Asian, Black or any number of ethnicities. African-American does not mean automatically that someone is black. I have friends who are from south Africa and they are considered African-American, more so than most blacks can even think of themselves.
     
    GQ

    Reply
    (1 recommendation so far) Message 40 of 40 in Discussion 
    From: MSN NicknameSummerMoondancer1Sent: 10/28/2008 7:33 PM
    Womyn I assume that the difference would be that his father was indeed from Africa so they may have listed it in that fashion...especially if the parents filled out the birth certificate when he was born which sometimes is the case. 
     
    Also, this is a recent copy so with upgrades what was originally listed may have been changed because of modern attitudes depending on what the original said.
     
    Now that being said...in South Carolina there is no longer a raised seal on their birth certificates, not even the original ones.  His seal is on the reverse of the certificate as was shown on Fact Check.  You can actually see part of it in the copy, but it is in the reverse.  There I suppose is no problem with that since I got my son´s passport with the birth certificate from SC that had no raised seal. 

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