|
|
 |
|
Reply
| | From:  frmear2ear (Original Message) | Sent: 4/7/2006 3:27 AM |
On April 9th and 10th, Italy will go to the polls. The thing is, they have changed the rules for their candidates for Senators. They can presently live anywhere in the world, not just Italy. This is historical, but it would seem, as well, very contraversial. Now, if you dont presently live in Italy, even if it is, your country of origin, how could you be as politically aware, of what is taking place there? As well, when one moves their life to another country, and becomes a legal and registered citizen of that country, they have to live by the laws of that country. The decisions they make in Italy, cannot have an effect on those living in other parts of the world, as they already have governments. Sounds very confusing to me. Does Rome wish to rule the world again, after so many thousands of year? Erm...just a question. It is my understanding, that if one "is" elected, that their yearly salary will be $280,000 Euros, which converts to $394,000 CDN. That's alot of money to be paying a governmental official dont you think? Even the Prime Minister of Canada gets no where near that each year. Nah, just seems that there is something fishy here, dont you? The link is from Australia, but there too, as worldwide, ppl are being elected for the Italian Parliament. Makes no sense to me. Any comments or further knowledge on this subject is most certainly welcome.  |
|
|
Reply
| |
Well, Smiles and Iced, it's not really like that. To explain it well I have to say two things in advance: 1- Our Parliament is composed by two assemblies: the Senat and the House of Deputies. A new low is done when and only when the two assemblies approve it on the absolutely same text. If one assembly changes even only a word the low goes back to the other assembly to have their agreement on the changement. One low can be approved first by an assembly or the other, there is not a prefixedorder. The two assemblies are perfectly the same on the legislative power. The Senat has 315 members, the House of Deputies has 630. 2- Italy was a poor country till the 1950-1960. We had not colonies, we had few industries. From 1850 till 1950 hundreds of thousands, millions, of Italians emigrated to other countries. It was hard, very hard. They worked and sent a lot of money to their families in Italy. They helped all our country by their sacrifice. Well, we Italians have a lot of defects but some good qualities too. One of them is gratefulness, we don't forget them who left their hearts here. So we decided that they can elect 6 Senators and 12 Deputies. Few numbers as it was logical but it's something that they appreciate a lot, of what they are fiercely proud. We have not forgotten them, we still thank them. Of course can vote only the ones who have Italian citizenship. It's not so strange because a lot of countries accept people having double citizenship and in any case we give ours to all the emigratings that want it ant to all their descendants. Giving our citizenship to a grandson of an Italian emigrating we honour his grandfather. And, about the money we give to our Members of Parliament. Yes it is a lot of money but let's think that a private company's head manager easily earns more and that 315 plus 630 = 945 persons have to decide what 58.000.000 people have to do and we will accept that such a big responsability is well paid. What is not to be accepted is bribery. Tomorrow morning I'll go to put my two crosses .......... hoping that mr. Berlusconi goes back home because I can't stand him anymore!  Ciao, Sandro |
|
Reply
| |
Thank you so much Sandro for explaining, one of those things, we dont normally think of. It would seem obvious too. Is the news media, looking for a story. True, many citizens, from their country of origin, have dual citizenship in more than one. That makes sense. I'm sure those citizens are greatful for the support, from those that have emigrated elsewhere. Honoring family, no matter their age, is very respectable. I understand your thinking, as to income of those that may be CEO's or in high positions in some companies. I feel I should express, that serving in the Government of your country, is again, an honor. I understand, that they are making laws for many millions, but if one puts a dollar sign on "serving one's country?" Doesnt that, kind of take away the honor, or serving those you represent? Would it now seem, that respect and honor, have a dollar sign attached to them? Sandro no offence meant, as I respect you greatly. Look at the American Government presently, and the resignation of Tom Delay, who was the head of George Bush's party the Republicans, but was taking bigtime bribes on the side. And we wonder why so many of the public dont show up to vote, as their trust in government, seems to have ebbed considerably. It is also my understanding, that Mr. Berlusconi, also owns the main television stations, and many newspapers, so he "can" influence the public if he wishes. In Canada and the States, if one owns large holdings, upon being elected to government, they must give them up, so that they cannnot influence the people's that they are elected to represent. If they didnt, I think the democracy of any particular country, would or may, be put into question, dont you think? Isnt is "for the people, by the people," or is it "for the bankers by the bankers?" Sorry that is American. Love to hear your take on my opinion Sandro. Open my mind to other's perceptions.  |
|
Reply
| |
Dear Smiles, really the money we give to the Members of Parliament is not a problem on my idea. They have to pay their own staff and many of them give to the Party a large part of what they get, in some cases they give even the half. No, that is not a problem also because it is known, given in a clear way. Instead I agree perfectly with you about bribery. A Member of Parliament is sacred, he has the biggest honour a man can have. Add that he is also well paid and really will be not understandable why bribery happens. Some persons are full of avidity for money and are intimately dishonest, they are rotten in the spirit, they are the scum of the country. I hate them. Silvio Berlusconi is a big problem, as you said. He gave up all the positions he had in his companies but not the property. It is easy to have the doubt that he can still manage his businness, speaking with the persons that officially run the position. He is a huge case of conflict of interest. Many times he went out of the room when the Government voted a decision but also here the doubt is that this is only an enpty act. And he has so many interest that almost everything is decided is on touch with his businness. Yes, he has also all the big private televisions, with a share about the 50% and has newspapers and magazines. By the way he has also one third of the company I work for .... Berlusconi is a big problem also because one as me, a truely democrat, thinks that everyone must have the right to be elected to Parliament ..... it's not so easy to resolve. But I'm against Berlusconi first for his government policy that I did not like. Tomorrow we'll see. Ciao, Sandro |
|
Reply
| |
Sandro, from your observations of this man, as well as those here on the outside, it would appear, that the leader of your country, wishes to control, much of what takes place there, with his many businesses. From my perspective, controlling the ppl of a country, when one is the leader of that country, means he shouldn't only give up his positions, but as well, any control of any business, while he is a member of that government. If he doesnt, then a question could be asked about whether or not, the representatives elected, can fairly represent those that voted them in. As well, within an election, the advertising by those wishing to be elected, should have equal access to television and newspapers, not have the leader say, who can and cannot advertise what they wish to do if elected. If one disagrees with him, they should have the equal access of those media forms to express their feelings, or the feelings of those that they represent. If this is not allowed, then the type of government or control of the population could be in question. True Democracy is the freedom to express openly without retrobution. I too, look forward as to whom is elected as the new leader of Italy. Please keep us up to date Sandro and thanks for sharing your knowledge. |
|
Reply
| |
The only clear thing at this moment is that Italy is politically divided in two. The two alliances are "Casa della libertà " of Berlusconi and his allieds and "L'Unione" of Prodi and his allieds. L'Unione has won for the House of Deputies. Only for 27000 votes that is enough because there is a "majority premium" and by that L'Unione will have 340 Deputies of 630. Obviousily Casa della libertà is asking to recount the votes ..... And you know what? Those 6 Senators elected by the Italians living outside Italy will make the difference! It seems that L'Unione will have 158 Senators and Casa della libertà 157 .................. But we still don't know who won and who will govern. Well, this is democracy, or better Democracy: Ciao, Sandro |
|
Reply
| |
Well, Berlusconi has lost. Really for few votes but he has lost. He is saying that wants to control, and he can as a democratic country have to let, but I think that the result will not change. What will happen now? It's not easy to say because the winning is an alliance with so many different souls and there is so much to do. First of all we have to see how the new Government will be composed,only then will be easier to understand the way our country will follow. How do I feel? I hope that after five years of nothing good (for me, really nothing!) our Government will face our problems and seriously start to resolve them. But today there is another important new. Bernardo Provenzano, the historical chief of the Sicilian Mafia, has been captured. They were 44 years that we were waiting for this. It is a great day. Ciao, Sandro |
|
Reply
| |
It truely "is" a great day for you and all Italians Sandro. I congradulate the winner, especially as you express, this former head of state, that apparently just wished to have profit, and not solve the countries problems. Am I close? Let us hope, that they can create a law, that basically expresses, if you become a member of the government, that the control of your financial assets, would be taken over only by a trusted friend or lawyer, that you cannot control, while in that position. It is, only fair to the people dont you agree?  |
|
Reply
| |
It would appear, with the winning of the election, as well as the long awaited capture of the Sicilian Mafioso leader, that Italy will, now move in a positive direction. Do you agree? |
|
Reply
| | | From: Joe | Sent: 4/14/2006 12:13 AM |
Sandro first of all a big thank you for your explanation of your countries politics and the reasoning behind it. I would never have thought about matters in this way had you not told me. To the others here Does it not just blow your mind that we. the ordinary folk can get together and question each other and listen and have the power of the true knowledge of community in this unique way? |
|
Reply
| | | From: Joe | Sent: 4/14/2006 12:16 AM |
To me the internet has shrunk the globe and extended the family |
|
Reply
| |
Very true statement Joe. Even though we are thousands of miles apart, technology has brought us next door would you say? |
|
Reply
| |
I agree with you Joe, the internet has shrunk the globe, in a good way I hope. Sandro has such a way with words, he is such a brilliant crazyfriend to have |
|
Reply
| |
Dear Joe, I agree with you, Internet is such an occasion to communicate! Our after polls is still very complex also because we are changing our President of the Republic. It will be on the half of May and they say that it will be better if will be the new President to name the new Premier. Now, a thing really not easy to explain are the role and the power of the Italian President of the Republic. For first you have to think that our Republic came out on 1946 after a dictatorship. Writing our Constitution the idea always present was to avoid any risk of a new tyranny. So it was done a mix of different and crossed powers for the institutional figures. No one can controll all and some are even out the control of anyone. For example recently we had a scandal involving the Governor of the Bank of Italy. And there was no manner to change him! He was named by internal decision, for the life time, and no one had the power to move him. No a Minister, no the Premier, no the Government, no the Parliament, no the President of the Republic, no all the Italians together ........ !!! After a long while the person gave the resignation. The low has been changed and now there is a manner to change him and he is no more named for the life time. (I have to say that I don't agree with the low changing, for me is better the risk to have a Governor not good than the possibility that he can be changed by other State powers. But I'm really very prudent with our democracy) So, coming back to our President of the Republic. He names the Premier and he is free on this. He meets all the political leaders but after he takes alone his decision. If the things are politically clear there is only one name he can choose but if the things are as they are now his decision can take different ways. For this they say that is better to wait for the new President of the Republic, because it is a big responsability and is better that to take it will be a President not at the end of his mandate. Berlusconi is trying to not surrender. First he said that will be possible a solution like the German one, a big coalition. Now he is trying even to speak with the ex-comunist ... We'll see. And I'll be glad to let you know what will happen. Ciao, Sandro |
|
Reply
| |
Living in a dictatorship, must be difficult, as is the Communist Party. Freedoms are limited considerably, so if Bersusconi is allowed to make a deal with the Communist Party, knowing his power, and ownership of so much media, this could cause a not only a large problem for the ppl of Italy, but as well, your freedoms, and being, shall I say, "watched" or spied upon a great deal. That would be a very sad day for your country Sandro.  |
|
Reply
| |
Well Sandro, it would seem, that the "former" President Berlusconi, has realized, that he has lost the election, by what ever percentage, be it large or small. That he no longer can control or influence, through his former government, the people of Italy. Now it is your New President's turn, to hopefully bring much more freedom to your country. I do look forward, to hearing of his progress, from you my dear friend. |
|
|
|
Free Forum Hosting
Important Announcement
First
Return to Speakers Corner
