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Baptism : Is Baptism essential to salvation?
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 Message 1 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 6/12/2008 6:24 PM

~~ Is Baptism essential to salvation? ~~

This is a very important subject, on which so many are confused and/or deceived. It is very clearly taught and shown in the word of God, so we need not be deceived or confused.

Jesus himself said: Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mr 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mr 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Now Notice that these words were spoken by Jesus after his resurrection and after he spoke this, he was received up into heaven and sat on the right hand of God. So this is solid proof that God approved of the words which Jesus proclaimed. Do you think that Jesus did not know the true plan of salvation, even after his resurrection? For anyone to deny any part of the above verses is to say that Jesus did not know what he was speaking of, even after his resurrection.

Jesus said here that baptism is just as important to salvation as is believing. He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved. Who is authorized to change the above statement by the risen Savior? Why would anyone presume that they themselves are qualified to deny what Jesus said, and take away the part of being baptized as part of being saved? I say anyone who does this is a worker of Satan, for he is calling Jesus a lie and setting himself up above Jesus as the authority on how to be saved. Thus he is setting himself up as god.

Did the apostles teach this same message? We all know that they did. Peter commanded them to be water baptized in water, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. Acts 10 and Acts 2. Yet most people still deny these words and take them away from being part of the gospel message. Paul went so far as to re-baptism some of John’s converts, believers, in the name of Jesus Christ, then laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost. Acts 19.

So now that I have laid this sound foundation for this message, I want to go into another aspect of this, from a different angle.

1pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

1pe 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

1pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 1pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Let me point out this from the above Scripture. Just because we are evil spoken of does not mean we are evil or wrong. Many people speak evil of me because of the great truth God has given to me, and because they cannot turn me from it, back to the false teachings of man. I have a good conscience in my walk with God and in my ministry, knowing that I am teaching what the Word of God does say. I also know that I received it by revelation, from God, just as Paul received his. So I am steadfast and unmovable from the things which God has assured me off. So let the evil workers repent and learn the truth.

By the Spirit, Jesus went and preached unto the spirits in prison which were disobedient in the days of Noah. Noah prepared the ark, wherein few, that is, eight souls were SAVED BY WATER. What? Yes. You read it…SAVED BY WATER. The like figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now SAVE US. What? Yes. You read it…BAPTISM DOTH NOW SAVE US. Water baptism. We are speaking here of WATER BAPTISM SAVING US.

Oh, many like to scream and carry on that only the blood of Jesus can save us. I know. Then they scream that only believing can save us. I know. One Scripture says that enduring to the end saves us. I know. Peter said to repent and be baptized. So, now, we add repentance to the mix. But how does all of this come together and not cross each other? Simple. It takes it all. It takes first, believing in the truth of God, in Jesus, in his blood, in his atonement for sins. But this is NOT all that it takes. It is only a starting place. We cannot leave out any of God’s Word and make it. If he said, through Jesus, that we must believe AND be baptized, then you better believe that it takes baptism. Did not Paul re-baptize BELIEVERS, in the name of Jesus Christ and THEN lay hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost? So were they saved before this? Of course NOT. They had only made a start. If Paul believed that ONLY BELIEVING saves the soul, then why did he ask them if they had received the Holy Ghost SINCE they believed?

Obviously, Paul did NOT think that believing was enough. He knew these believers needed to do something more. He knew they needed to be water baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and then be filled with the Holy Ghost. So now that this is solidly proven, lets go back to the figure of the ark/water.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Noah believed God and thus saved his house. Didn’t Paul preach this to the jailor? Sure he did. Believe and thou shalt be saved and thy house. So does one’s believing save others? Those who claim that all it takes is believing, do not think that it will save others. So they are not believing the entire Book.

Eight souls were saved by water. This is a like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us. Why deny this? It says this is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, or washing your skin. It is the answer of a good conscience toward God. (So does this do away with the saving part? No.) Can you be saved without a good conscience toward God? No. Notice it said BY THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST.

Now how does this enter into the being saved by water? Romans six will give us the answer. Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Ro 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

The importance and necessity of baptism as a vital part of our salvation has been lost to the people of today. Those who claim that all one must do to find salvation is to just ‘believe�?have closed out most of the Scripture in favor of this false hope of never having to obey the Word of God. We will find in this message that baptism is absolutely NECESSARY for salvation.

Most people think that because we are justified by faith and the blood of Jesus, that this does away with the necessity of baptism. But this is just not the case. We must learn to go by all of the Word, not just a few select verses. All of the Word is God’s Word, so it takes it all to find the complete truth. It is not all listed in the very same spot, for that would be impossible to tell it all in one single verse.

Anytime the Word of God is used or spoken or called over a thing or person, that causes the Holy Power of God to be there administering the power for healing, salvation, cleansing, justification or any other need we have. So when one is baptized and the word of God is spoken there, as is commanded by the Apostles, then this causes the act of Baptism to bring about the part of salvation which God ordained it to do. The Word of God spoken over the baptism act causes the water to become Holy and powerful, just as the presence of God caused the ground upon which Moses stood to be Holy Ground. (Be not children in understanding.)

Now when this baptism is accomplished, he said that we were baptized into His death.

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

See then that we were baptized into his death and not only that but BURIED with him. When one is baptized they are actually buried with Jesus into his death. Most people say that it is only a ‘picture�?or figure of his death and resurrection as we go down into the water and come back up out of the water. But I can assure you, it is MUCH more than that. Something very spiritual takes place right here. Too much carnality has replaced all the true spiritual truths in the Word, leading souls into darkness and destruction.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

See that? IF we were planted TOGETHER (with Jesus) in the likeness of his DEATH, we shall be in the likeness of his resurrection. So, if you refuse to be planted in the likeness of his death, you will NOT be in the likeness of his resurrection either. See then that it is NECESSARY to be baptized in his Name. Else you did not die with him so you cannot live with him. So now what exactly is the true purpose for this baptism?

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

See that we must be in Christ Jesus (by one Spirit are we baptized into Christ) in order to be made free from the law of sin and death. Believing does NOT place you into Christ. You must be baptized into Christ, first passing through his death and grave.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

We are baptized into his death and buried with him. Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God,

This ‘wherein�?refers to the baptism, wherein ye are risen with him. See that it said in Romans six that we are raised in the likeness of his resurrection. This is saying the very same thing. Risen with him -- how? Through the faith of the operation of God. See this also proves what I told you, that it is accomplished in the Spirit by God. It is a spiritual happening which only God can do. Then if we obey the command to be baptized in His Name and receive the Holy Ghost, we receive that circumcision of Spiritually cutting off the body of sins. See this is the answer to the cry in Romans 7-- who shall deliver me from this body of death.

Only obedience to this Holy Command to be water baptized into his death, via water baptism in his Name, can cut away the body of sins by this circumcision made without hands. This is further proof that those who refuse to be baptized in his Name are never set free from their sins.

Mt 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. Mt 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with:

Lu 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

In the above verses, Jesus was speaking of his coming crucifixion or death. See that he called it a ‘baptism�?

Now that is a lot of Scripture proving that baptism is the way we are placed into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. How else are you going to accomplish this? Where does the Scripture say that believing and the blood of Jesus Christ places you into the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? There is no Scripture teaching this. It is false doctrine of men, who do not wish to obey God.

Now back to the flood of Noah’s time. Peter clearly tied this water baptism to that flood. So let’s take a look and see how that is. That society before the flood had become very sinful and violent. So God sent the flood to destroy all who would not repent and obey the command to go into the ark.

Those who refused, and thought they could be saved some other way, were destroyed right there. They died and went into a prison. God BAPTIZED that entire world then. It took that WATER BAPTISM to get rid of the wicked, and to save those who did believe God. The very same water which killed the wicked, saved Noah and his family. The ark was their safe place. It represents the body of Jesus Christ. They went into that ark, a type of our being placed or baptized into the body of Jesus Christ, for safety. So the water baptism of the flood, cleansed the entire earth and gave the saved ones a new world to live in.

When Noah and his family came out of that ark, the world was clean and fresh, with no left over evidence of the wickedness which had prevailed before the baptism. They now had a new life, or start, with God. They had actually passed through death, burial, and resurrection. They died to their old lives, were buried, and then resurrected into new life, and a new world. Yes, they had gone though that destruction and death and burial of that old world of wicked, rebellious folks. The wicked were buried right there in that watery grave. They never had a resurrection, because they did not go into the ark. Those who did, passed through the waters, without being hurt, as promised by God. They then had a resurrection into new life.

This is the perfect type or figure of NT salvation, via water baptism into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Without this, there will be no salvation, any more than all those millions or rebels were saved in Noah’s day. You cannot just do away with this much of God’s type or figure, and find his favor or grace. You are thus saying with your own false doctrine, that all of that water baptism of the old world, and the saving of Noah’s family, is of no value to us spiritually. You are saying that God’s typing and this much outpouring of God’s wrath on that sinful world, means nothing. How dare you?

The very same water baptism which destroyed that old world, saved Noah’s family. So the very same water baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of our sins, and placing us into the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, will save the obedient and destroy those who refuse it and call it lies.

Water is very powerful. Water is more powerful than fire because water has dominion over fire. Water puts fire out. How does water put fire out? It smothers it. Fire must have oxygen in order to live, or burn. Without this oxygen, fire will die. So the water puts out the fire of sinful living and lusts which destroys the soul. It put an end to the sinful lives of those before the flood.

If volcanic ash, burning, falls into water, it is immediately put out and hardened into stone. So, when our old lives, full of the fire of lusts and sins, is cast into that water, in Jesus Name, then that fire is put out and we are tempered, or hardened, so that Satan can no longer toss us about and burn us into destruction. We then become lively STONES in the temple of God. But to those who refuse, they are turned into hard stone, or under law, to the destruction of their souls. See, the same water which sets the saints or obedient ones, into a lively stone, unreachable by Satan, also turns the disobedient ones into hard rock, which can no longer be reached or softened to salvation. Their heart is hardened and thus they lose their ability to hear the voice of God. This is important to understanding these spiritual truths. God is going to again destroy the entire wicked society of rebels and those who set themselves up as God, by changing God’s word and pronouncing their own words.

God is going to send a baptism of fire. It will burn up the works of man, but save the righteous. How? Those of us who have gone into that water, being baptized into the body of Jesus Christ, into his death, into his burial, into his resurrection, have already been given new life and set in heavenly places with Christ Jesus. Therefore, the fire cannot hurt us. The water put it out for us. The Water saved us, just as surely as it saved Noah and his family. If you deny this, you must call Peter, and the word of God a lie. How dare you? But by the same token, those who do not have the water in their lives, the fire will not be put out and will therefore destroy them. The water of right baptism is there to protect us when that fire falls to burn up the wicked and their works.

That ark, with its precious cargo of eight souls and many animals, went into a baptism of water, into a death, a burial, a resurrection. Those who were disobedient went into a baptism of water, into a death and a burial, but not the resurrection. Why? Because they did not go into the ark, by faith. They did not BELIEVE what God had said. They thought they could outdo God and find salvation another way. They BELIEVED, but they believed a LIE. They believed their own words instead of God’s Word. So their belief could not save them. It destroyed them.

So I warn you all, trying to get salvation some way other than what God has told us, is nothing but destruction to your soul. The water will not be there for you, to put out that fiery judgment when it comes. So I call upon everyone who may ever read this to stop believing man’s lies and obey the gospel as preached by the Apostles of Jesus Christ and now by me, Jo Smith. I am teaching the very same message which they preached and receiving it by the very same revelation by which they received theirs.

By: Jo Smith ~`~` ~` June 12, 2008



First  Previous  2-16 of 16  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1©Sent: 6/12/2008 9:58 PM
Would you all, listen to what this woman of God is telling you. Hearken unto her voice, she is crying out for your soul. You will not have a excuse when you stand before God if you have read this great message. It is left up to you.
 
Will you accept or will you deny this message that this woman had posted or will you listen to Dake, Billy Graham, or someone else that has not the truth. Remember you will be held accountable for this for not obeying this very important message.
 
as was said, it is very clearly taught and shown in the word of God.
 
Jesus himself  said  that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Then he said behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
 
Is this not what this woman has preached unto you. She has obeyed what Jesus said do. She has preached unto you repentance and remisson of sin in his name and the promise of power from on high, the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
 
As I have said, you better harken unto her voice>  

 


Reply
 Message 3 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/12/2008 11:32 PM
Praise God for this lovely prophecy from the Lord.  i fully believe that God put these words into my brothers mouth.
 
Thank you, Brother Larry, for allowing God to use you and not be ashamed to stand with a woman of God.  thank you for being there.  And God richly bless you and yours.  Keep sending out this great message of truth.  We may be the only two who sees it and stands for it,  but onward we will march till He calls us home.

Reply
 Message 4 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/17/2008 12:44 AM
In the shuffel,  Don't forget to read this glorious message.

Reply
 Message 5 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/23/2008 5:11 PM
one more time.

Reply
 Message 6 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameRHF53Sent: 9/8/2008 7:43 PM
I read you article with much interest but have a question. 
 
How could Jesus tell the criminal as they both hung on the cross, "....today you will be with me in paradise."?  Lk23:43  Neither your proposed requirements of baptism by water nor that of the Holy Spirit took place....?  Better go back and re-read Galations.  The gospel you are putting forth is "no gospel at all" Gal: 1:7

Reply
 Message 7 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/8/2008 9:46 PM
Don't be too quick to judge it, RHF.  If it is no gospel at all, why is Scripture full of it?  Why did Peter teach it?  WHy did Paul say the very same thing?  If my message is no gospel, neither was the things they taught.  I quoted from them, you know.
 
Perhaps you should study a bit.  The thief on the cross did not come into salvation that day.  He went where the other souls went, who died on the other side of Calvary.
 
He was with those to whom Jesus went and preached to the souls in prison. 
 
They without us shall not be made perfect.   Ever read that in Hebrews?
 
Not one single person had the new birth apart from the salvation given in Acts 2:38.
 
The OT Saints have to come to Jesus in the very same manner that we do.  They were given the chance after Jesus preached to them, in prison.
 
You did not live in that period, before the Day of Pentecost, so you cannot attempt to go to Jesus on the same grounds which that theif did.
 
You are going to be held accountable for either obeying or disobeying the Gospel message, which both Peter and Paul preached,  ...water baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.
 
If it is not a gospel, why is it written in Scripture?

Reply
 Message 8 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/8/2008 9:47 PM
Taken from the message:
 
Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 
Is that not gospel?  Jesus said it, you know.  why deny this?

Reply
 Message 9 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/8/2008 9:50 PM
Taken from the message:
 

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

We are baptized into his death and buried with him. Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God,

 

Paul wrote that also, same as Galations.  So you think it is not necessary to be buried with him?  and this is not gospel?  what bible do you read?


Reply
 Message 10 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/8/2008 9:53 PM
<NOBR>Ac 10:46</NOBR> For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
<NOBR>Ac 10:47</NOBR> Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
<NOBR>Ac 10:48</NOBR> And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

That is Peter's words.  Is it not gospel?  why command these people to water baptized in the name of the Lord, after they had already received the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues.  Guess you also deny that?

Reply
 Message 11 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/8/2008 9:56 PM
<NOBR>Ac 2:36</NOBR> Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
<NOBR>Ac 2:37</NOBR> Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
<NOBR>Ac 2:38</NOBR> Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
<NOBR>Ac 2:39</NOBR> For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


This is Peter's answer to the question,  what must we do to be saved.

Do you not consider this to be gospel?  Guess you would not agree with Brother Peter here, either?   Surely Peter knew more about it than you?  No?  Well, since this is written Scripture, from the one with the keys to the kingdom,  I will believe him.

It if is not gospel, then there is none.  If I can't believe Peter and Paul, and Jesus, who could I believe?  they all said baptism is escential to be saved.


Reply
 Message 12 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/8/2008 9:58 PM
<NOBR>Ac 19:1</NOBR> And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
<NOBR>Ac 19:2</NOBR> He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
<NOBR>Ac 19:3</NOBR> And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
<NOBR>Ac 19:4</NOBR> Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
<NOBR>Ac 19:5</NOBR> When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
<NOBR>Ac 19:6</NOBR> And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


This is Paul's words.  It is not gospel?

He asked BELIEVERS  have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?  Why would Paul ask such a thing?

 

when they said, we do not know about the Holy Ghost,  what did Paul say?   (well you did not believe right then?)  No.

He said  UNTO WHAT THEN WERE YOU BAPTIZED.   Why?  Why did Paul go to how they were baptized?

Is it gospel?  then this great apostle REBAPTIZED THEM.  why?


Reply
 Message 13 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/8/2008 10:01 PM
<NOBR>Ac 22:16</NOBR> And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

That is Paul, testifying of his conversion.  Ananias said to Paul,  why tarriest thou?  arise and BE BAPTIZED, AND WSH AWAY THY SINS.

 

Is that gospel?  what bible do you read?  why are you so against this TRUTH?  if It Is not gospel, why is it in the Word so much? 

What do you have which contradicts this much Scripture?


Reply
 Message 14 of 16 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 9/9/2008 1:49 AM

The thief on the cross was not under the New Testament covenant. Under the OT baptism was not required. Neither was the Holy Ghost because it had not yet been given. There was types and shadows of the true baptism and the Holy Ghost that was poured out on the day of Pentecost. Jesus lived under the Old Testament Law and so did the thief on the cross.

Galatians 4:4- But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

When Jesus died on the cross He removed the Old Testament Law. Paul says, "blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.

Hebrews - 9:15 - And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. ( This is something that everyone must see. That Jesus died for the transgression that were under the first testament as well as for the ones under the NT. Without the shedding of the blood of Jesus those OT transgressions were not be ever forgiven. You see those sins were rolled over from year to year. Now that Jesus died they also came in under the blood of Jesus. They also are not no more under the law

9:16- For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. ( If Jesus had not died they nor us could come under the New Testament blood of Jesus but would still be under the blood of bulls and goats
9:17- For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The thief on the cross could be saved without being baptized as Jesus commanded in Mark 16:16 because he did not live and serve under the authority of the New Testament.

And also why Jesus was earth he had the power and the authority to forgive sin.

Luke 7:46-48
7:46- My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.
7:47 - Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
7:48- And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

Mark 2:5 - When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Since His death, his will (the New Testament) is "in force" and all must obey the Gospel plan of salvation (the New Testament) in order to become a child of God and be saved.

The thief on the cross was not subject to the New Testament Gospel plan of salvation. Today, you and I are under the New Testament of Christ. Have you obeyed the truth?

Have you obeyed the true plan of salvation? Repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin. and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in another tongue?


Reply
 Message 15 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/9/2008 4:38 AM
Thank you, Isaiah, for this powerful and most true message.  It is absolutely the best I have ever heard in explaining this matter of the thief on the cross and the difference between those who served God under that old law system, and those of us who come in under the New Covenant of Grace.
 
It is truly pityful how so many try to use that thief on the cross to try to bypass the only plan of salvation ever given to man,  that is in  Acts.
 
there is absolutely no other way into Christ now.  We all must obey the gospel of REPENT,  BE WATER BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND BE FILLED WITH THE  HOLY  GHOST, with the same evidence as they had at Pentecost,  =  speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
 
It is truly pathetic how so many despise this true plan of salvation,,  and scorn it and hate it, yet claim they are Christians.
 
There is no other plan of salvation in all Scripture.  This is the only way.  So to reject this, and try something else, is trying to by-pass God and still get to God.
 
Hope this helps all who are deceived with this dead religion of JUST BELIEVE AND YOU HAVE IT MADE.
 
NO  YOU  DO  NOT  EITHER.

Reply
 Message 16 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 9/9/2008 4:07 PM
I was thinking, last night, after I went to bed, how truly RIDICULOUS it is that so many take one part of GOD'S WORD   and try to descredit another part of GOD'S WORD.
 
If God said it, anywhere, it must be true, for God does not lie.  If he said in Acts 2, ye must be baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, then this is true, no matter what other Scripture says.
 
God did not give us his word in one place, and then give us something with which to call that a lie.  How could He be God, if He did such foolish things?
 
No, it is the foolish people who attempt to discredit one part of God's word, because they do not like it,  with another part of the same God's word!!
 
Beware, ye who seek to nullify part of God's word with another part of God's word!
 
IF God never said,  I now abolish what I did in Acts 2 and brough up another plan of salvation, then you better stay with Acts 2.

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