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| | From: Freeborn551 (Original Message) | Sent: 12/19/2007 9:24 PM |
From: joie (Original Message) | Sent: 9/16/2001 10:00 PM | Many do not understand the gift of tongues; even those how have experienced this. Because they do not study the Word enough to receive the knowledge of it. There is more than one manifestation of this gift. The tongues spoken on the day of Pentecost, in the upper room was not the same that was later to the great crowd of people of all languages there. People overlook that fact that in that upper room, where they recieved the Holy Ghost, there was no one present who did not speak the same language. That speaking in tongues was not the same gift manifested later to that crowd of milti-languaged people. So the speaking in tongues in the upper room was not the same. This was the tongue given to people when they first are Baptized with the Holy Ghost. It is a heavenly language; not an earthly language. It had no need for interpretation. There is not one word said there about it having to be interpreted. nor that it was interpreted. 1Cor. 14:2-9--- For space, I will not quote all of this, read it. v2---For he that speaketh in an unknown (now get that: an UNKNOWN TONGUE). (this is not an earthly language; if it were, it would not be an unknown tongue). See, people just did not really get the true revelation of the Word. v2----For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto MEN, but unto GOD: for NO MAN (no one anywhere, so it is not an earthly language)----understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (see, they were not speaking to men). v3--But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. v4---He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. Then Paul goes on to say that in the church we should interpretate it for the sake of edification of the church. But, notice, this is not the same thing that happened on the Day of Pentecost, in the upper room. That was not given to edify any church. The church was not even in existence at that time. That was only for them personally. That is the same thing happens when one is filled with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. This is only for that individual; not for the edification of the church.
Messages given in tongues in the church should be interpretated. That is what Paul is speaking of in verse 9. v18--I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all; yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Here he is speaking of teaching in the church. The other is in his private devotion. But, he is not saying we can't speak in tongues in the church. It should be kept back unless someone can interpretate it; for the sake of edifying the church. That was not the case on the Day of Pentecost. It is not the same thing. This is the same self sacrificing nature shown in Paul when he said I could wish myself accursed from Christ for my Kinsmen sake. I personally have never been able to say that. He was willing to hold back his own blessing of speaking in tongues in the church for the sake of teaching others. v22--Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not. This is saying that the gift of giving out a message in the church and the interpretation is for a sign to the unbelievers in the midst. So this is not what happened in the upper room. There were no unbelievers there. That was not the same working of the spirit. That tongues was the evidence of being filled with the Spirit. It is the fullfillment of Isaiah 28:11,12---For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest. Remember Jesus said come unto me all ye that are weary and I will give you rest to your souls. This is what he meant. This is the New Testament REST. Not a 7th day sabbath. So, see, this initial speaking in tongues when the Holy Ghost comes in, is this prophecied in Isaiah. The rest for our souls. So it is not a matter of speaking in another earthly language for the sake of teaching other nationality folks the message, as Peter did to that crowd. That crowd was not in that upper room. They did not speak in all those earthly languages in that upper room. They were speaking in that unknown (heavenly) language. It needs no inperpretation. Notice, also, in Acts 10:44-46--When Cornelius and his friends received the Holy Ghost it said they spoke in tongues, but not one word is said about it being interpreted. It was not that kind of gift being manifested. This was just for them. Again, Acts 19:1-6--Paul met some believers (already believed, mind you) yet they did not have the Holy Ghost. Paul laid hands on them (after baptizing them in the name of Jesus) and they were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues and prophesied. Not one word is said about this being interpretated. For there was no need for it. It was not a matter of teaching to people of another language. It was just for their own edification . People that do not know of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, who think only believeing gets one saved, have always used this of needing to be interpretated, to say speaking in tongues at the initial filling is not right. But, it is because they did not know how to discern the difference in speaking for ones own edification and speaking for the edification of others. All of you pentecostals, come to understand this so you can teach it to the unbelievers in what we have from God. And you others, study this to learn the truth; quit just listening to some church doctrine. It will not save you. you must believe the Scriptures, not a church. Jo | | |
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Greetings Joie; I want to compliment you on your fine understanding of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. You surely must have experienced this wonderful experience of being Baptised with the Holy Spirit or you could not have did so well in expounding these Scripture about this wonderful experience. This is one reason why I have not stopped trying to instruct you and yours on this webb page because I feel there is something there in each of your hearts that is worth rescueing from desception. But there is something stopping you from understanding the other scriptures according to truth, and if I stay long enough maybe I will or some one else maybe will , open your eyes to the Truth of the Laws of Yahweh that have been since creation , and will never change nor be abridged, that is more than just his word spoken, but is his message to his people , informing us of the things that please him and that he delights in as an action, and a lifestyle for his people! May you yield to the Annointing , so that it will lead and guide you into "all" Truth. | Reply
| | From: joie | Sent: 9/16/2001 11:56 PM | Dear Apostle, I appreciate you kind words and your concern. I also have the same concerns for you. If you will just compare Scripture with Scripture, you will find that my teachings are exactly according to the pure Word of Jesus. The Holy Ghost teaches me; he has given me the anointing teaching me. He teaches me Scripture by Scripture. You will find some day that these are the true teachings of God's Holy Word. Jo | | |
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The Bible says, | 1Ti 2:11 | Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. | | 1Ti 2:12 | But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. | | 1Ti 2:13 | For Adam was first formed, then Eve. | | 1Ti 2:14 | And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. | | 1Ti 2:15 | Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. | | |
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A sincere question: What then is true, do we have to speak in an unknown tongue or else we have no baptism, or do we speak and all languages understand or we have no baptism? Both of the examples were Baptisms of the Holy Ghost, yet as you have said they exibited different gifts at that time. I do not believe the Bible teaches we MUST speak in tongues (the miracle at Pentecost was not the speaking, but that each HEARD in his own language) to receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. I believe that at the Baptism one is filled with the Spirit and the gifts are given as God sees fit. The primary purposes of the Holy Spirit is to give power for witnessing and to comfort the believers. What about a mute, you see what is important is that people believe in Christ and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I can say this for sure, if in sincerity a believer seeks the Holy Ghost, he may ask of God who gives to all men liberally (ask and ye shall receive), don't worry about whether or not you speak in tongues (worry is not of God), instead of worrying, BELIEVE HE will give. If GOD wants you to speak in tongues, HE will give you the gift, nobody had to convince or motivate those believers in the book of acts to speak in tongues, the spirit was poured without measure and the gifts flowed like a roaring river. | Reply
| | Greetings stranger; The Gospel is ; heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the leper, heal the mute, Cast out devils, and to Preach the kingdom of heaven is at hand. The Kingdom of Heaven began with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit giving them power to do these things that were of the Kingdom of Heaven. Those who really speak in an unintelligle lip as the scripture has said, AS THE SPIRIT GIVES THEM THE UTTERANCE have been given jurisdiction over sin , sickness, unclean spirits, devils, and death. These have no power over that person unless they yeild to that jurisdiction of their own volution. Your questions are of those who have not expeirenced this Jurisdictional authority. But it is to you and to all that are afar off! Acts 2: 38-39; Shalom and lots of love until next posting. | | |
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From: joie | Sent: 9/17/2001 3:03 PM | Rod, the answer to your post is that the churches still putting themselves back under the LAW is the only ones Paul told their women could not teach. I know we have gone through this many times before. To those of us who come to the new covenant, grace, Jesus freed the women, the slaves, everyone. There is no LAW to the New Testament Chruch forbidding women to teach; except they go back to LAW. Now, to my dear friend, Stranger: Go back and re-read the message: Go back to the Day of Pentecost: there was only 120 people there. They all spake the same language. There was no miracle here of others 'hearing' them in a different language. This is the first out-pouring of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. They spake in the heavenly, unknown tongue; which NO MAN understands; it is not an earthly language. Now, when the other occurance happened; the one where all those people heard them speak in all their own tongue, this was NOT the Baptism; this was Peter preaching, they each heard in a different tongue. But, this was NOT the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. See, Peter had already received it, in the upper room. That great crowd of people were NOT in that upper room. This is where most people have missed seeing the truth. False churches and even sincere, misled people, have taken this to believe that they did not have to speak in tongues as evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost. But, the Holy Ghost MUST utter His Words to pronounce that He has taken up His abode with a person. I, for one, did not seek to speak in tongues; I did not believe in this; I did not desire this; I was not, as you said, 'worring' about this. I only wanted to be filled with joy and power of the Lord. But, when the Holy Ghost came in, He did very much utter a full message in the unknown tongue. I had absolutely NO CONTROL over this matter; HE did it. It is the most glorious event in the whole world. So, see, even if one does not even believe in speaking in tongues, when the Baptism of the Holy Ghost comes, He will utter His words; It is not you speaking; but Him. I do say and believe with my whole heart, that one will, without exception, speak in tongues when you receive the Baptism. For, if not, then the Holy Ghost has not spoken; He has not filled your 'temple'. And why would one not desire this great experience? Why try to evade it? Only because false teachers have down-graded it so much and even poked mockery at this. But, be not deceived, God is not mocked. Our nation is in trouble right now because of all this 'mocking' of the things of God. The gifts of the spirit, spoken of by Paul in Corinthians, is not the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. They are governed; but the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is NOT governed. Hope you will sincerely study these Scriptures; pray and let God open this up to you. JO | | |
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From: joie | Sent: 9/23/2001 9:20 PM | Isa. 28: Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. v11---For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. v12--To whom he said, This is the rest wierewith ye may cause the weary to REST; and this is the refreshing: yet they would NOT hear. v13---But the word of the LORD was unto them (those who would not hear)--precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little that they might go, and FALL BACKWARD, AND BE BROKEN, AND SNARED, AND TAKEN. v14---Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye SCORNFUL men, that RULE this people which is in Jerusalem. (the scornful men, were the O.T. rulers who refused the N.T. rest of Holy Ghost: tongues) v15--Because ye have said, we have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under false hood have we hid ourselves: v16--Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corrner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. I conclude from this Scripture, that it is a dangerous thing to reject the stammering lips rest of Jesus. You will end up in the 'covenant with death, and hell, -the two riders of the fourth horse in Rev. JO | | |
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Tweety | Reply
| | Amen, again. Love that picture. And again, thanks for bringing these messages back to the front. when I have time I wish to put them into one of the special boards. I have wanted a long time, to go back far enough to find these and post them in the special boards, for all to see whenever they wish to study one of these important subjects. See, at first, we posted everything to the General board. we did not have these others then. (did not know how). But God has greatly helped us learn how since starting. Praise God for this great ministry. In 1997, after having lived away from God a short while, I repented and asked God only to allow me to feed his sheep. I know now that this computer work is my main means of reaching people whom I could never have reached any other way. A prophecy was given to me by someone else, back in 1981. It said my voice would be heard around the world, and I would never leave home. At that time neither of us had ever heard of the internet. I thought it kind of 'off' slightly. But now I see it has been fulfilled. We have had members in here from many different countries. I have mailed my tapes to other countries, having met them right here. It is a great opportunity for teaching people we could never reach any other way. Jo | | |
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I really enjoyed reading this, even tho you taught it to me a long time ago. It is still nice to read it again. I'm so glad I was blessed to have you as a grandmother, God blessed me through you. |
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Thank you, my dear, Rebecca. And I am greatly blessed to have you for my granddaughter. You have been a blessing to me many times. and I am so glad you are back in here with us. We need you and the great insight God gives you. I Love that baby! Me |
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