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| | | From: joie (Original Message) | Sent: 7/4/2005 9:55 PM |
| From: Isaiah (Original Message) | Sent: 4/20/2004 4:17 PM | Mt 14:33 - Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. Mt 16:16 - And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mt 27:43 - He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. Mt 27:54 - Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. Mr 1:1 - The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Mr 3:11 - And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. Lu 1:32 - He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: Lu 1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 10:08 PM |
| From: joie2 | Sent: 10/13/2004 10:11 PM | |
and after Jesus rose from the dead he appeared unto Thomas and Thomas said to Jesus(My Lord and my God,John20:28)and worshiped him..Jesus didn't rebuke him for this because Jesus is the Lord and God... [Mateo]
Have you ever read Heb. one? You need to study this chapter. Now Thomas had received a revelation from the Father just as Peter received a revelation from the Father. Jesus told Peter flesh and blood [which he was] did not reveal this to you, but my Father which is in Heaven. Do you really think Jesus was calling himself , My Father? My --shows possession does it not? Is Jesus saying I am my own Father? My self is my Father? Foolishness. Jesus had asked Peter, who do you say that I am. What did Peter answer? Do you know? Any of you? Did Peter say, you are God? Nope. Why not, if this is the true foundation for our belief? Peter said you are the Son of God. Jesus verified that this was a true revelation from His Father. Now, Thomas has received a revelation from the Father concerning the fact that AFTER THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS INTO LIFE ETERNAL, IMMORTAL LIFE, NEW BIRTH LIFE, NOW GOD THE FATHER [ A SPIRIT] REWARDS JESUS FOR HIS PERFECT OBEDIENCE TO GOD, AND HIS DEATH AND GOING INTO HELL FIRE TO PAY THE PRICE FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD........ GOD THE ONLY GOD, THE FATHER ....OF...OUR LORD JESUS, sets Jesus up on the throne of God, to be worshipped as God with God. Ever hear this? Read Heb. 1:
| God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, | | Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
| God spoke by His Son. God appointed His Son heir of all things...... | Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. | | For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? | | And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. | | And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. | | But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. | | Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. |
This says that God made Jesus much higher than angels. Before his death he was lower than the angels....for the suffering of death. Now v.8--this is where it was fulfilled what Jesus said, ALL POWER IS GIVEN TO ME. ......given to me.......given by whom? why was it given to him? If he already were God, why and who gave this power to him? Now you do believe what Jesus said, don't you? Jesus said, ALL POWER IN HEAVEN AND EARTH.....IS.......GIVEN.......TO ME. By whom? By God. By His God. By His Father. Do you believe that Jesus has a God? If not, you must call lots of Scriptures a lie. IT MENTIONS THE GOD AND FATHER OF JESUS IN LOTS OF PLACES. Jesus called him, My God, My God on that cross. Who was he speaking to ? Now go back and read where God told the angels of God to worship his Son. He told us to worship Jesus now as God. So that is the revelation Thomas received........that now........after his glorification into the image of God......Jesus has been raised up to be God with the God kingdom.......God set Jesus up as God and told us to worship and honour HIS SON EVEN AS WE HONOUR AND WORSHIP HIM. That is how and why Isa. 9:6 declares that the only begotten Son, which is the RESURRECTED CHIRST, is our everlasting Father. This will never end. Jesus is our Father.........but God is Jesus' Father. Jo | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 10:11 PM |
| From: joie2 | Sent: 10/13/2004 10:24 PM | | Jesus was also the son of God..How can this be you ask?..Jesus had two natures..as a human he was the son of God but the Spirit inside the human body of Jesus was God..[Mateo]
Jesus had two natures?????? Where is even one verse stating this lie? Are you not afraid to add to the Word of God this way? Do you not know that God will take your part out of the Book of life and add the plagues of His Word to you if you change his word this way? It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God. This kind of stuff makes God angry. Jesus only performed miracles by FAITH IN GOD. Not that he was God. If so, then how is he our pattern son? How are we placed on the same level as He? When he told his disciples you will do all I have done and greater, how is this fulfilled if one must be God, with a dual nature to work these great works? If Peter raised the Dead same as Jesus, did this mean peter had that dual nature? If not, then how was he doing just as Jesus did? Think about this. How can we lay hands on the sick and they recover if one must be God and have a dual nature to do so? If Jesus said we shall do as he did, then how can we do it, if Jesus did it as being God? See? If JEsus did it as God, then we cannot do as He did. If so then we must also be God............see where this false teaching leads. And that was its purpose,,........to fulfill the desire of satan to be God. Make man be God.........Adam is Satan.......Adam wanted to be God. Was that not what he was tempted with?? God doth know that we shall be as gods? Ever read that.........is that what you all desire ??????? to be as gods? Sure seems so. Jesus was a man. The Word always declares Jesus was and still is a man. Where does it say Jesus was and still is God? Where does it say that? It says Jesus is the man who mediates between God and us. the MAN Christ Jesus.........did not say ...the God, Christ Jesus. Now did it? Jesus raised the dead by FAITH IN GOD. Else he was not our pattern. Else he is not our kinsman redeemer. God is not a kinsman to us........only another human being is our kinsman. You do away with the entire purpose and glory of Jesus when you declare him to be God. JO | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 10:14 PM |
| From: joie | Sent: 10/14/2004 6:12 PM | | Mateo, I have already taken some of the places you used and PROVEN by the Word itself that everyone is MISINTERPRETING those Scriptures. Now are you going to read what I write or not? Thanks for your concern for me, but be it known to you that my God has already opened my understanding to His Truth.........please pray for yourself and be willing to LET God teach you out of His Word,,,,,,,not some man's error. Now, being a 'chief shepherd' DOES NOT MEAN BEING GOD. There is absolutely no proof here. Nothing in 1Pet. 5:4 says a thing about Jesus being God or divine. Divine is not even used in Scripture. It is a lie. I explained Isa. 9:6 in one of the above posts. Unless you read them and study, I am not going to repeat the same thing. Rev. 17:14.....being Lord of lords does NOT IMPLY BEING GOD. Look at the spelling of 'lord'.......Lord is the Son. LORD [all caps] is God. Being King of kings also does NOT imply being God. It is the elevated position of Jesus, the mortal son of Mary. He is God's Son by GLORIFICATION. [same as we will be] John 20:28....is as I explained above, the revelation which Thomas received that after Heb. one, the ceremony in Heaven, AFTER Jesus resurrection and ascention, where God set Jesus up to be worshipped, thus becoming OUR GOD..... Now to say he is MY GOD, as Thomas said, IS ALSO NOT IMPLYING THAT JESUS IS GOD....only that God said for us to worship him as our God and honour Him as we honour God.......this is what Jesus inherited as his reward for his complete and perfect obedience to God.......He lived on earth as GOD'S SERVANT.......NOT AS GOD. Now nothing you have stated yet, said that Jesus is God or that Jesus had a dual nature. Not one word is ever said in Scripture of this nature. Now when you can give me one verse saying Jesus is God or that Jesus had a dual nature, then I will agree with you...... but know what? I have ALREADY studied the Word enough to KNOW IT IS NOT WRITTEN. Now I am taking every scripture you hinted at and explaining it with other Scripture. Now you do the same with what I wrote. that is IF YOU DESIRE TRUTH. Jo | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 7/5/2005 10:15 PM |
| From: joie | Sent: 10/14/2004 6:22 PM | | Please read and EXPLAIN John 17:1-3. Who was Jesus speaking to? Himself? Is he calling himself his own Father? If Jesus were his own Father, please explain why he said to this 'father' --as You gave him power over all flesh......now if he is the Father why did he say he GAVE himself this power? Did he give himself power?........but this is not all..........read on.... verse 3----[Jesus still speaking TO HIS FATHER]----this is life eternal, that they might know THEE [you], THE ....ONLY.......TRUE....GOD,............AND .....JESUE CHRIST,,,,,,,WHOM......YOU....HAST SENT. Jesus tells HIS FATHER,,,,,you are the only true God............now do you call Jesus a lie? how you explain this? | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/5/2003 4:57 PM | Romans 1: 4-4. And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: Jesus was declared to be the Son of God (notice it did not say he was declared to be God - it said the Son of God, by the RESURRECTION from the dead. Rev. 1: 5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Now Rev. 1: 5 says that Jesus Christ was the first BEGOTTEN OF THE DEAD. Does not this agree with Romans 1: 4? Do you agree with this? or do you call it evil also? Hebrews 1 1. God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4. Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Now here God said He brought His first begotten into the world and told even the angels to worhip this Son. Thou are my Son, this day have I begotten thee. what day did God beget this son? Let Peter answer it. (do you think Jesus beget himself?)
8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
See this anointing by God to Jesus is the same as Isa. 61? He put his Spirit upon his servant? Same anointing, see? Here is Peter's answer ~ Acts 13: 29. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
30. But God raised him from the dead:
31. And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
32. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33. God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
( Now see, again God declares that He begot this Son on the Day of the RESURRECTION. This is the apostles Peter's words ~~ I thought you claim to believe the Apostles' doctrine ---- well this is the apostles Peter's doctrine ---- that God beget the Son Jesus at the RESURRECTION. See same doctrine the Apostle Paul taught in Romans 1: 4. I am teaching exactly what Peter and Paul taught. Also John, for he said the same thing in Rev. 1.
34. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
( now these verses above prove that Jesus was corruptible. God is declared to be uncorruptible (Rom. 1) and that it is a reprobate who claims God is corruptible man. But this declares that Jesus was corruptible man. So who is teaching truth, me or those who claim Jesus in the flesh was God? I say exactly what the Apostles taught. So I am the apostolic - not you. Now see Peter spoke of the crucifixion of Jesus, then of God raising him from the dead and quotes Psalms 2 Thou are my Son, this day have I begotten thee ~~~~ and said the day of the RESURRECTION was the day this was fulfilled. See the proof that the day of the RESURRECTION is the day God begot this Son of God in His likeness and his image. Jesus is the image of the invisible God. God anointed His son to be God with the God kingdom. Do you hate this truth? Why? | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/5/2003 5:18 PM | | The answer to your questions is post # 3, is this: Jesus made it clear that they do not bear witness of themselves, but of the other. Jesus said if I bear witness of myself do not believe me. He said but the Father bears witness of me, so this made up the 2 witnesses God himself requires for a thing to be established as true. The Holy Ghost bears witness of Jesus, therefore it is said he is sent in the name of Jesus. Jesus came in the name of the Father. This is in no way implying that Jesus is the name of the Father. The Father bears witness of His Son, Jesus. But again this does not mean that Jesus is the Father's name. I have never read in the Word where the Holy Ghost is called anything other than the Holy ghost. I have never seen where He is given a name as we humans have a name. Jesus bears witness of the Father, and the Father bears witness of Jesus. If they were the same being as you think, none of this would make any sense. And I can assure you I know the Jesus only doctrine as much or more than any other person who has ever been in it. I once believed this lie and taught it so strong I could convince almost anyone. But God himself spoke directly to me and told me it is not true. If you will seek truth with an honest heart, God will show you also. But if you insist on denying Scripture to prove a certain church doctrine, God will let you go on believing your lies. JO | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/5/2003 5:33 PM | | John 3:17 and 5:30, along with other verses of Scripture, state that the Father sent the Son. Does this mean that Jesus, the Son of God, is a separate person from the Father? We know this is not so because many verses of Scripture teach that God manifested Himself in flesh (II Corinthians 5:19, I Timothy 3:16). He gave of Himself; He did not send someone else (John 3:16). (Aps. min)
Now you listed these Scriptures as trying to prove that God and Jesus are the same. Yet each of these verses makes it CLEAR that they are not the same. Again you are misusing them. 11Cor. 5:19 states that God was IN Christ. It did not say Christ is God or that God is Christ. It said God was IN Christ. There is a very big difference in being a person and being inside a person. God was in Christ the same as they are in us. Does this make me to be God because he is in me? Of Course. not. John 3:16 states the God gave his son - he did not say he gave himself. You are never reading the Scriptures rightly. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/5/2003 5:44 PM | The Dual Nature of Christ From the Bible we see that Jesus Christ had two distinct natures in a way that no other human being has ever had. One nature is human or fleshly; the other nature is divine or Spirit. Jesus was both fully man and fully God (Apmin.)
I challenge you to give me even one verse of Scripture stating your above lie. You cannot do it. That is not one verse saying that Christ had a dual nature. There is not one verse saying that Jesus was both fully man and fully god. Give that reference or else admit it is made up lies trying to back up a false doctrine which is totally foreign to the Word and truth of God. Then how do you explain that Jesus was made in all points LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHERN? He took NOT on him the nature of angels but he took on him the seed of Abraham = total human. You cannot make anything else of it and be true to the Word of God. How was he made perfect through his sufferings? If he were fully God as you state, there would have been no need for a 'perfecting' of the captain of our salvation. No. He was fully human doing his miracles same way Peter and Paul did them = by faith in God. Else, Jesus was not made just like his brethren. If he were both god and man as you say, then he was not like unto us. He was not our perfect PATTERN SON. His overcoming sin in the flesh would have had no value or merit to condemn sin in the flesh IF HE HAD BEEN GOD IN ANY KIND OF WAY. No, He overcame sin in the flesh being fully human with all the same desires and temptations as we have. You do away with this and deny the true greatness of Jesus by declaring him to be God. You are wrong! Your church is wrong. Jesus was not God. He was a human man. God is NOT MORTAL. He never became a mortal man. Romans 1 says that anyone who says God is a mortal man has a reprobate mind. Better be careful of this lie. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/5/2003 5:51 PM | | The Son was sent from God as a man, not as God: "God sent forth his Son, made of a woman" (Galatians 4:4). God manifested Himself in flesh in order to achieve a special goal. Hebrews 3:1 calls Jesus the Apostle of our profession, apostle meaning "one sent" in Greek. Briefly stated, the sending of the Son emphasizes the humanity of the Son and the specific purpose for which the Son was born. (aposmin.)
Now read that statement above here - in this you state EXACTLY the same thing I teach. This is the only true statement you have said. See? Even Jesus only preachers cannot teach the Word without declaring the real truth, for it is all through the Word. YOu said God sent his son, as a man, not as God. That is just what both the Word of God and I teach. Jesus came here as a man; not as God. God his Father was still in Heaven when his Son Jesus was here on earth. He spoke from Heaven at the baptism of Jesus. You cannot make any other sense of it all this. I listen to Jesus only preachers a lots and they will ALWAYS speak of the Father, of Jesus going back to His Father, of Jesus come from His Father; of the Father bearing witness of His Son, etc. See they cannot preach the Word without this for it is all through the word. Yet they will turn around and flat deny what they just said. I hear them do this all the time. They are TOO BLIND TO SEE WHAT THEY SAY THEMSELVES. They are too deaf to hear their own words. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 5/5/2003 6:01 PM | Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both(kai) Lord and Christ. Oh, that the ONE God robbed Himself in flesh! Now this would explain not only the singleness of the scriptures, but also why there is no mention of the Holy Ghost. 'God the Father' is that Spirit manifested in the body of Jesus who is BOTH Lord and Christ! "But these things are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing, ye might have life through his name." JOHN 20:31 (aposmin.)
Look up the word BOTH. It means two or more objects. So this is saying Lord and Christ are two different catagories of beings. One God robbed himself in flesh....... Yes? Well show me that verse? Where did the Word declare this? I will believe you when you quote Scripture telling me this. It is not there! No mention of the Holy Ghost? I ask you what is this statement suppossed to mean? No mention of the Holy Ghost? The Word of God is full of mention of the Holy Ghost. Jesus said " if I go not away He will not come. But if I go away I will send him to you to abide with you forever". HUH? Explain this. NOw read John 20: 31 which you quoted .... it said to believe that Jesus is the Son of God OF God.. it did not say believe that Jesus is God. You cannot find that statement anywhere in the whole Word of God ..... to believe that Jesus is God. If you think it is there, show us where it is. Case closed. I do not delete as you state. You cannot make it hard on me on this subject. I can stay with you till the end of the World and never miss a beat. You have not truly interpreted Scripture stating that God is Jesus or that Jesus is God. It is not there. Jesus is our God because God set him there on the throne of God with God. That is the only way. I ask why did you go away? Because you could not answer the Word when I finally had time to address this with you. Stay and prove your belief. You cannot do it. | |
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~~ Whom do you say he is? ~~ Mt 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? Mt 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. Mt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Mt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Whom do men say that Jesus is? Whom do you say He is? Almost all men say he is God…he is God robed in flesh…he is God incarnate…he is God in humanity, …he is the humanity of God�?he is God’s flesh…etc. I cannot find any of that written in Scripture�?so where do they get that? It is important, or Jesus would not have gone to this discussion. Notice, in verse 14, that none of those of their day thought that Jesus was God. That was not any of the opinions of man, of that day. They thought he might be one of the prophets, but not one of them said they thought he might be God. It never entered their minds that Jesus was God. But Jesus nailed it down to you personally. Who do you say he is? Peter, who do you say he is? Now the truth is the answer Peter gave, for Jesus verified this and nailed it down as the foundation upon which he builds his church. So unless you have the same revelation, you are not on the right foundation. What was Peter’s answer? Did Peter say, I believe that you are God? No way. Did he say I believe that you are God in human flesh. Nope. Did he say, you are God incarnate? No. Why do you all not deal with this? You asked for proof that Jesus is not God. Here it is. Peter had the true revelation from God the Father. If you cannot believe this, you have no faith at all. Mt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Now that is the only true answer the Word of God gives us. Man made up the lie that Jesus is God. By: Jo Smith �?Sept. 20, 2007 |
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