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Rapture? : Rapture, by Bill Britton
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 Message 1 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22  (Original Message)Sent: 8/5/2006 6:06 AM
From: joie  (Original Message) Sent: 8/22/2004 10:08 PM
The RAPTURE of the Church "what is it?"  By: Bill Britton

One of the most persistent doctrinal questions from sincere, truth seeking people today is: What about the "rapture"? What happens when Jesus returns to earth? How soon is it going to happen? Who will be in it' Many saints, enlightened by the Spirit, have come to an awakening realization that the old traditional theories of religion do not harmonize with the pure simple teaching of the Word of God.

We know that Jesus will return soon. Of this there is no doubt. The Bible makes this much plain. But how soon? And what happens at that time? Who will see Him? These are questions that deserve an answer. First let us start from the negative side, and expose the old

false teaching so many hold to. We will examine the teaching and then show when and where this teaching originated. Then we will look at the Bible and see what it actually says, letting the Holy Spirit throw divine light on the Word and show how it harmonizes with what God is doing in the earth today.

"THE ESCAPE THEORY"

The word "rapture" does not appear anywhere in the Bible. Yet His word has been associated with the coming of Jesus, and spoken of as the "hope of the Church". Although this word is not found in the Bible, it is found in the dictionary. Some dictionaries give more definitions and shades of meaning than others, but the dictionary I now have before me says simply "RAPTURE...strong feeling that absorbs the mind; very great joy."

However, to most fundamentalist and pentecostal people, the word rapture brings to their mind a picture of white robed saints leaving the earth and soaring through the air to a meeting on some clouds somewhere in outer space. This image has been preached evangelistically until many people have come to accept it as gospel fact, without bothering to check and see if that is what the Bible actually says.

According to the evangelists, the Trumpet may sound before he finishes preaching, or before you wake up in the morning. When that happens, the cemeteries burst open and the dead rise, and those still living go zooming off into space to meet the Lord. The reason for this is, they say, because the Antichrist will then appear and the Great Tribulation will begin. And God is far too good to let His people go through much tribulation. The implication is that they are far too weak to survive in the face of such demonic power. They will then attend the Marriage supper of the Lamb up in Heaven, get their "rewards" for their labors here, and have a wonderful seven years of joy and singing. While their unsaved loved ones, their children who may not have been born again, and the untaught millions of heathen are suffering untold agonies on earth. "Good enough for them", seems to be the general attitude. "They should have gotten prepared, like me."

This may not be your attitude, and this may not even be the way you see the "rapture". Even within denominations, there are wide differences of opinions on this subject, ranging from violent "escape rapture" adherents, to those who are shaky or just don't know. I have had many pentecostal preachers to write and say, "Brother Britton, I know my denomination preaches this theory, but I have never gotten a witness to it, and just can't find it in the Scripture."

"PRE-TRIB, MID-TRIB, OR POST-TRIB?"

Because we dare to look into the Bible on this glorious subject of His coming, and dare to teach differently than the fundamentalist denominations, some spread the word that we do not believe in the coming of the Lord, or the catching up of his saints. This is not so. We believe in a very real "coming of the Lord", while the "rapture" people actually believe in the "departure of the saints". While we teach the "appearing of Jesus", they teach the "disappearing of the Church". I will explain more on that later.

For those who believe in a geographical removal of the saints from the earth at His coming, there are three basic concepts. 1. THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE. This means that God's people will not be here for any of the seven years of plagues, vials, etc. Bumper stickers state: "In case of Rapture, this car will self-destruct". Tracts for airliners say: "In case the Trumpet sounds, be prepared for this plane to crash, your pilot may be a Christian". These things are designed to generate fear, and in some cases they do. One of the scriptures they use is Revelation 4:1-2 where John heard a voice "as it were of a trumpet talking with me, which said:

"Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the Spirit: and behold a throne was set in heaven, and One sat on the throne."

They say John was a type here of the Church being caught up off the earth into heaven. But it says no such thing. It does not even imply that John left the Isle of Patmos during this time that he was "in the Spirit". In fact, in Revelation 1:10 John states that "I was in

the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am Alpha and Omega". Here he was in the Spirit first, then heard the trumpet. I have heard no one argue that he was a type of the "rapture" here, in Revelation 1.

Another verse they use is in Revelation 3:10..."Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." This, they say, proves we are removed from the earth during the time of tribulation. But it actually says no such thing. In fact, verse 9 says the opposite. It tells us that God will bring the enemy down before our feet. We have to be here for that to happen.

"WHEN WILL IT HAPPEN?"

Next we come to the Mid-trib. They believe that the Bible teaches that the Church will have to go through the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation while the Antichrist is warring against the saints, but will be raptured and spared the last three and a half years while God is pouring out the worst judgments upon the earth. They believe this because of the many scriptures that show God bringing His people through great fire and into glorious victory. Yet there are other scriptures which indicate a place of great joy and glory for the Overcomer during this time, so they surmise that God will take them off the earth during the last half. This is a "middle of the road" position, designed as a compromise between two seemingly different concepts in scripture.

Finally there are the "Post-tribulation" people. They believe that the Church goes through the entire seven years of tribulation (some believe in only 3 1/2 years total), and that only after the tribulation are the saints "caught up", as according to Thessalonians. They see a Church being empowered by the Spirit to survive the worst onslaughts of Satan. They believe God is able to keep His saints in the midst of the fire, as with the three Hebrew children in the fiery furnace. This is an admirable attitude, and much closer to truth than the "Pre-trib" view that was born out of fear and selfishness.

Some think that if the "post-trib" teaching is right, that this would mean seven years of horrible suffering and untold agony for God's people, and almost total destruction of the Church. But this is not so. A beautiful scripture in Isaiah 26:20-21 shows us that the Lord does not intend for His people to suffer the horrors of the Tribulation. Someone asks if the Church will be here on earth for the Tribulation, and the answer is NO! We will be here DURING the Tribulation, but we will not be here FOR it. While the Day of the Lord is a day of judgment for the wicked, that same Day of the Lord will be a day of glory and power for His anointed people! I intend to be here for the GLORY!

Isaiah says: "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpass. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:" Now, the pre-tribulation rapture people say that this scripture proves that God will remove His people from this earth during the tribulation. It proves no such thing, and in fact, it says exactly the opposite. We will be here while the wrath of God is being poured out, but it shall not be poured out upon us, for we shall be hid in Christ. We shall be in an Ark of safety, as Noah was. "As it was in the days of Noah".

ENOCH AND NOAH

Some like to point at Enoch, who was translated that he should not see death, and say that he is a type of those who are raptured before Tribulation. But Enoch did not live during the time that judgment was being poured out on the earth in the form of a flood. Enoch was translated 669 years before the Flood, and never met Noah. In other words, his translation was not for the purpose of helping him escape the flood. Jesus did not say: "As it was in the days of Enoch"...He said, "As it was in the days of NOAH". And Noah went through the flood, protected by the Ark he had prepared and entered into. And when the flood was over, and the wicked had been "taken", he stepped out of the Ark, and inherited the earth. He and his family were the only ones to own the earth now, for everyone else who might have had a deed to a piece of property was gone, along with their heirs. So there was no one left to dispute Noah's claim. He inherited the earth. Read Psalm 37 and see the principle laid down in Scripture.

Paul never preached that message of fear. He never told the people they would escape the battle. In fact, in Ephesians 6 he urges them to put on the entire spiritual armor of God in order to be ready to face whatever came in the Tribulation. I don't know how anyone could miss that, but they just seem to ignore it. Let me quote from Ephesians 6:13 to see how plain it really is: "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand IN THE EVIL DAY, and having done all, TO STAND." Not fly away, but stand! That's the gospel Paul preached. That's the true teaching concerning the Day of the Lord, the Great Tribulation, "that evil day".

The "escape" that the Bible teaches is found in I Corinthians 10:13..."God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." God and His faithful people have always been victorious, and our "hiding place" is in Christ. "Your life is hid with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3). It is the fearful, the faithless, or the wicked, who seek a geographical hiding place. Some want to leave the earth and go somewhere else while some cry for the natural rocks and mountains to hide them. (Rev 6:15) Today, some are seeking a hiding place in some natural place, a farm, a desert, a foreign country, a wilderness area, etc. But it will not work. It is only another form of "self-rapture". You cannot escape from the devil or Antichrist that way. Your protection and safety is only in Christ, and in absolute obedience to the Spirit of God. Whether it be on a farm or in the city, in a wilderness area or in a metropolitan center, the hiding place is the same...in Christ! Hallelujah! Don't criticize those who leave the city, or move out of California, or go to a farm somewhere. Perhaps the Spirit has instructed them to do so, and their safety is in their obedience. And don't criticize those who stay in the city, or refuse to flee from the coastal areas. They may simply be obeying the Spirit also. And this is where their safety lies. Everyone must be led of the Spirit, and not persuaded by someone else that the true doctrine is to "run and hide".




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Reply
 Message 2 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 6:07 AM
From: joie Sent: 8/22/2004 10:11 PM

NOT WHEN, BUT WHAT?

Confused by now? No doubt. For as yet we have only explained the various theories that are being preached about His coming, and given a negative and confusing picture. But hold on. The picture is getting brighter, and clearer. The big hassle about the return of the Lord has mostly been as to the time it happens...Pre-Mid-or Post. But the Spirit is speaking expressly these days, not so much as to the time of it, but rather as to what takes place when it happens.

Everyone has assumed that whenever it happens, we will go zooming off the earth into outer space to meet the Lord somewhere in another geographical location. Pictures have been drawn by artists, and distributed by the multiplied thousands, of Jesus standing on a stratocumulus cloud a few thousand feet in the air, while Christians are being lifted out of a village below. Some are a few feet off the ground, others halfway to the cloud, etc. A most unscriptural picture, yet many form their beliefs from this sort of thing, and take it as acceptable gospel truth. Let me give you the history of how this theory got started. 

 
 

Reply
 Message 3 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 6:08 AM
From: joie Sent: 8/22/2004 10:15 PM
 

EDWARD IRVING AND MARGARET MACDONALD

Perhaps you have heard of the Irvingite movement, known as the Catholic Apostolic Church. The Encyclopedia Britannica, volume 12, 1966 issue, pages 648-649, describe Edward Irving and the controversy over his teachings in Scotland and England in the early 1800's. He was excommunicated by the London presbytery, and in 1833 was condemned and deposed from the ministry of the Church of Scotland because of his teaching concerning "the sinfulness of Christ's humanity". He also began to teach a "rapture of the Church", after a young scottish lass by the name of Margaret MacDonald went into a trance and described a vision in which she said she saw the saints leaving the earth at the return of the Lord, before the tribulation. Her trance and vision took place in the spring of 1830, while living in Port Glasgow, Scotland. Her "revelation" was recorded in a book written by R. N. Norton and printed in London in 1861. I have a copy of this portion of the book, though it is now out of print and almost impossible to obtain. Prior to this time, the Church, clear back to the Apostles, had always preached that the Church would go victoriously through the tribulation. There is no record of the "escape rapture" theory being preached before 1830. On April 30, 1831, a Mrs. J. B. Cardale, who later joined Irving's church, had uttered a personal revelation in a home prayer meeting, echoing Margaret MacDonald's revelation of a pre-tribulation rapture.

It was from this supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God. Edward Irving accepted this teaching, and it was taught at prophetic meetings at Powerscourt House in Ireland, attended much by Plymouth Brethren organizer John Darby. Irving's views influenced Darby, C. H. Mackintosh, and C. I. Scofield (whose Bible notes popularized the new theory). So it was a young scottish girl who originated this idea, and is so recorded on page 15 of Norton's book on the Catholic Apostolic Church. Darby, Scofield along with Clarence Larkin and his charts began to teach this new theory, and in the early 1900's it reached a peak in popularity.

When the Holy Spirit was poured out in pentecostal power at the turn of the century, the Lord emphasized the fact of the nearness of the coming of Christ. But the pentecostals got no new light at that time on the specific events of His appearing. They carried over what the non-pentecostals had been teaching regarding Miss MacDonald's "revelation". When I was in a Pentecostal bible school in 1947 which promoted the escape rapture theory, I discovered that our "textbook" also had statements in it denouncing the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues in our day as being demon inspired. I was shocked to learn that we were being taught about the coming of the Lord by men who claimed our pentecostal experience was of the devil! My reaction was to ask, "Why doesn't God raise up Spirit filled men who can give us real revelation on prophetic events by the inspiration and enlightenment of the Holy Ghost? Well, praise God, He did!

 
   

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 Message 4 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 6:08 AM
From: joie Sent: 8/22/2004 10:21 PM
 

"ONE TAKEN. . . AND THE OTHER LEFT"

To give you an idea of the way the scriptures were mutilated by those straining to prove this theory, let us look at the example in Matthew 24. Here it tells us that at His coming, "one shall be taken, and the other left". Songs were written, and sermons were preached, to urge us to be ready to be "taken" when Jesus comes. When actually, the Bible is saying the exact opposite. It was the wicked that were "taken" in Noah's day, and the righteous were left to inherit the earth. So shall it be in the day of the coming of the Son of man.

Matthew 24:37-41 says:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Now who was taken in Noah's day? The wicked! Will it be different now? No, it will be like it was in Noah's day. That's what the Bible says. And if there is still any doubt in your mind as to whether the saints will be "taken when Jesus comes", let us turn to Luke 17:27. While Matthew says that the "flood came and took them all away", Luke gives the same account of this teaching of Jesus, except that in Luke we read: "and the flood came and destroyed them all". So to be "taken" means to be destroyed by the judgments that are coming upon the earth. Do you still want to be taken?

 
 

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 Message 5 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 6:09 AM
From: joie Sent: 8/22/2004 10:29 PM

THE PENTECOSTAL EVANGEL SPEAKS

In April 1961, while living in the village of Carney, Oklahoma, I published a message on this subject entitled "One Shall Be Taken". Although we had just a little over a thousand on our mailing list at that time, this message caused such an uproar and storm of protest from some quarters, that I thought I would have to hit the storm cellar. Carney, Oklahoma was in "tornado alley", and after I published this message, I thought I had been hit by one. However, it opened the eyes of many sincere people, and made them realize that they had been duped and deceived by those who had twisted the scripture to try to make it mean something it did not say.

It seems that with many, the "rapture" theory had become a "sacred cow", and to question this teaching or expose it as false was like attacking the blood of Jesus or the virgin birth or motherhood. Good men almost got violent about it. Rumors would be started that you must be dabbling in spiritualism, free-love, or even devil worship, if you didn't believe in the good old rapture. Dare to "rupture the rapture"? Be careful. It was dangerous to your reputation. But thank God, some cared more for truth than they did for their reputation! And the truth marched on!

After being attacked by Pentecostal preachers for saying that in Matthew 24 it was the wicked who were "taken" and the righteous were left, I was delighted to find this same truth brought forth in the official organ of the Assemblies of God. I am quoting from the January 1, 1967 issue of the PENTECOSTAL EVANGEL, "Official voice of the Assemblies of God" (page 4), Springfield, Missouri. On page 9 of this magazine, in an article about the 24th chapter of Matthew, we read: "Contrary to what is often taught...the Rapture is not in evidence here. Those "taken" are the wicked, who are taken in judgment - just as the wicked in Noah's time (mentioned in the preceeding verse) were taken in judgment. Those "left" are the righteous who remain to enjoy the blessings of the Millennium which will follow Christ's return to earth." unquote. The same thing I had said six years before. How do you like that? Thank God for men everywhere who are willing to tell it like it is. Even if the majority disagree with them.

WHO ARE THE ELECT?

In the early part of this 24th chapter of Matthew, Jesus is telling of the signs of His second coming and the end of this age. In verse 21 He speaks of the Great Tribulation, and in verse 22 He says that the "elect" will be here at that time. And in verse 24 He says that the false prophets and false Christs would try to deceive "the very elect". Then in verses 29-31 He gives a sequence of events:

"After the tribulation of those days, the sun and moon shall be darkened and the powers of heaven shaken, then the tribes of the earth shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, then His angels shall gather the elect together."

Now this should be plain enough, and stop all arguments. But men have devised a scheme to get around these scriptures. They simply say that "the elect" are not Christians, they are the Jews who are left here after the rapture. All you have to do is get a concordance, and read every scripture that mentions the "elect" of God, and see who they are. Start with Romans 8:33, Colossians 3:12, I Peter 1:2 and Mark 13:20.

"WHAT DO YOU DO WITH I THESSALONIANS?"

Good question. The answer is, I believe it and preach it. But I believe what it says, not the fables men have built around it. Turn with me now to I Thessalonians 4:13-18... Read the entire context, and see the subject he is dealing with. He starts out by saying "I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep" (in death). So the subject matter in this portion of scripture is what happens to those who have died, those who did not survive until the coming of the Lord, until the manifestation of the sons of God that he preached and wrote about. Will they miss out on the glory of that Day of the Lord? Oh, no. Paul tells us in II Corinthians chapter 5 that when a man of God dies, his body goes to one place and his spirit (his conscious life) goes to another. "To be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord." We are not sleeping or unconscious in His presence. That part of us that has eternal life is still living and conscious when we go into His presence. Our dead bodies, that part of us that ceases to have life, sleeps in the grave. Whether it is put into a tomb, or is cremated, or eaten by lions, makes no difference. When the spirit leaves the body, the body immediately "descends" into that state of death (lower parts of the earth), while the spirit "ascends" into His presence.

At the second coming of Christ, the order is reversed. The physical body "rises" or ascends from the state of death, no matter whether it has become bones, dust, ashes, or food for the birds. Out of the state of death that physical body rises into a glorified state, like unto His "body of glory" (Philippians 3:21). Meanwhile, not leaving the presence of God, but descending with Jesus back into this visible earth realm, the conscious spirit once again is joined to the body which it left at death. Only in a much higher realm. (And "higher" does not mean somewhere up in the sky where airplanes fly and rain clouds drift about).

So Paul is comforting their hearts about the fate of their loved ones who are going on to be with the Lord. He is not saying to them "don't worry, we shall see them someday up in heaven". He is saying that they are coming back with Jesus for the great Day of the Lord and the events connected with that. Read on in chapter 5 and see that this is so. I can hear someone say: "Oh, I want to go to heaven someday and see Mother". Well, don't worry, dear one. If she is one of God's elect, one of those who "sleep in Jesus" (verse 14), she is coming back here. Just stick around, and be prepared.

Someone says "Oh, I want to go to heaven and get my rewards . In Rev 22:12 Jesus said "Behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be". Is there a heaven? Of course there's a heaven! Will we go there? Of course we will go to heaven! But what we are talking about today is the return of Jesus to this earth, and what happens at that time. I Thessalonians 4 says nothing about us being "caught away" to heaven. What it does say is that we who are alive and remain until His coming shall be "caught up". And it does not say anything about us coming back down after we are caught up. Once I get caught into that realm of glory where Jesus is, don't ever talk to me about descending back down into this life of mortality, sickness, aging and death. 

 
 

Reply
 Message 6 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 6:12 AM
From: 4everHis Sent: 8/22/2004 10:49 PM
First you tell Eric:
 
Eric, I have told and told you, I am not going on something someone else said.
 
Then you proceed to post a cut 'n paste job by "someone else." Hmmmm!

Reply
 Message 7 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn22Sent: 8/5/2006 6:12 AM
From: joie Sent: 9/19/2005 3:57 PM
Thank you, Larry, for bringing this back up.  I passed it several times as I went back through the pages, and thought of sending it back.  But since I was busy doing something else,  I let it go, figuring to do it later.
 
Now, to smart-mouth,  I never learned one thing about this rapture teaching from brother Bill.  In fact I had written my messages on this subject, and also put it on tape long before I even knew that had ever been a Bill Britton. 
 
 I never heard of Bill untill a member here, named Hose, or Horse,  gave us a link to Bill's writtings. 
 
Then when I saw that this man, who has been dead a long time,  Had also received the revelation of this truth,  I posted this here to show you all that other people have been given this truth.  I also posted a history of this lying teaching here somewhere.  I want  to find that and send it back.
 
I got that history from someone else.  I never studied that history of this lie,  so was very glad to find this information.  Anyone who desires truth, will appreciate these great messages.........but of course,,,,,,the serpents, with their venomous 'tongues' do not appreciate anything except their 'biting' of God's people.
 
hmmmmmmmm

Reply
 Message 8 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134Sent: 9/30/2007 4:03 PM
Good Morning,
I am still copying all of Freeborn's messages from her board-so she will not have to worry about them being lost. I am at the Rapture board. And in reading some of these messages, a question that I had brought up to Freeborn awhile ago came to mind. Does Jesus have a kingdom? Well we know the Father has a kingdom and that Jesus came from that Kingdom. But since Jesus is our King and the Father is HIS KING. Does Jesus have a KINGDOM? Well let us see here.
 

DA 4:36 At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of MY KINGDOM, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in MY KINGDOM, and excellent majesty was added unto me.

<o:p> </o:p>

<o:p>I believe this is Jesus (Not Daniel speaking here). See how Jesus said an excellent Majesty was added unto Him? Someone had to give it to him. That was God the Father. This happened after he ascended to heaven.</o:p>

<o:p></o:p> 

<o:p>What about this one?</o:p>

<o:p>

DA 6:26 I make a decree, That in every dominion of MY KINGDOM men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.

 

How About this one?

LU 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in MY KINGDOM, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Israel</st1:country-region></st1:place>.

 

Now if you think here that Jesus DOES NOT HAVE HIS OWN KINGDOM, THEN THIS PROVES YOUR THEORY WRONG.

GOD THE FATHER IS KING OF ALL. HE HAS ONE THRONE.

NOT EVEN JESUS SITS ON HIS THRONE. SO WHY ARE THERE MORE THAN ONE THRONE MENTIONED HERE? THINK THINK!

 

STILL WANT PROOF?

JOH 18:36 Jesus answered, MY KINGDOM is not of this world: if MY KINGDOM were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is MY KINGDOM not from hence.

 

PLEASE READ THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE.AND THINK ABOUT IT. READ IT 100 TIMES IF YOU HAVE TO.

IF JESUS KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD? THEN WHAT WORLD IS IT?

I GUESS I HAVE GIVEN EVERYONE ENOUGH THOUGHT FOR THE DAY. HAVE A GOOD DAY. TWEETY

 

 

</o:p>

Reply
 Message 9 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1©Sent: 9/30/2007 8:07 PM

we can see Jesus in all of the Scriptures.


Reply
 Message 10 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1©Sent: 9/30/2007 8:27 PM

Eph 5:5 -

<DIR>

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

</DIR>

Col 1:13 -

<DIR>

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

</DIR>

2Ti 4:1 -

<DIR>

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

</DIR>

Heb 1:8 -

<DIR>

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

</DIR>

2Pe 1:11 -

<DIR>

For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

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Re 1:9 -

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I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ

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Reply
 Message 11 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 10/1/2007 2:06 PM
Hi Tweety and Larry,
 
Tweety, you are getting into some good understanding now.  Yes, Jesus does have a SEPARATE kingdom from the Father's kingdom.
 
I have been teaching this a long time.  When Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world, he was saying that it is not of this evil system on earth now.  His kingdom will be of a holy world, which he will establish right here on this earth when he returns.
 
He is ruling now from the Father's kingdom, or throne.
Here is solid proof:
 
<NOBR>Re 3:21</NOBR> To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I have shown this to others a good many times.  They still cannot see it or accept it, because doctrines of men have blinded their eyes, and they refuse to turn and believe the Word of God.

 

Now Jesus is telling us that when he returns and sets up his Holy Kingdom on earth, that the ones who followed him into his truth will be granted to sit there on his throne, the same as he now sits on the Father's throne.  It is not a physical, natural throne as the earthly kings have.

 

It is totally spiritual.  That is how so many can 'sit' on it.  It merely means they will be given ruling power, as God gave to Jesus ruling power.

Jesus is an earthly man, glorified.  God is a spirit.

Their kingdoms are also the same.  Jesus has an earthly kingdom.  The Father has a heavenly kingdom of Spirit.

 

Yes, that is Jesus speaking in Daniel.  Daniel is about Jesus as is all other Scripture.

Glad you see this.

Jo


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