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Bible Study : the rapture
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 Message 1 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamefaithfulRick6465  (Original Message)Sent: 3/5/2005 1:10 AM
With the war in Iraq and the state of affairs in the world I believe Jesus will soon be coming for his church.In Matthew24:14 says that thegospel will be preached to all the world and then the end will come.Is there anything I am missing?


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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 7 of 21 in Discussion 
Sent: 5/29/2005 5:04 AM
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 Message 8 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameUpscaleSuzy1Sent: 5/29/2005 2:33 PM
Thank you Christian Boy!!!!! Praise The Lord!!!! Are we ready to meet Him? I feel the time is near!!! Can't wait til He come's!!!!! Love In Him, Suzy

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 Message 9 of 21 in Discussion 
From: WinkSent: 6/2/2005 8:18 PM
There is no "rapture"; only the resurrections.  Those meeting in the air are taking part in the first resurrection and transformation (not all are dead) as Christ comes to begin His millenial reign.
 
Let's look closer at Rev. 3;
 
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.  Rev 3:8-12 (KJV)
 
He will keep those safe, but not in heaven, He will do it right here on earth.  To the overcomers; they will be important figures for God here on earth in New Jerusalem.  We must know the Kingdom will be set up here on earth. 
 
Now, we are kept from temptation, but not tribulation.  Look at what Christ prays to the Father:
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.  John 17:14-16 (KJV)
 
The reason Christ prayed this is because the true church, His church, is the only light this world has; just as He is our light.
 
Deut. 4:30; ...when thou art in tribulation... God's people go through tribulation.
Judg. 10:14; Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.  A warning.
 
18 And said unto the children of Israel, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I brought up Israel out of Egypt, and delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of all kingdoms, and of them that oppressed you: 19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.  1 Sam 10:18-19 (KJV)
 
Egypt is also simbolic of sin, but God saved all on earth and they went through tribulations on earth; just as we do today and will continue to do.  Our place of safety is our faith in Him, not in a location (heaven or earth).  He is our Petra.
 
1 Thes. 3; ...that we should suffer much tribulation...we are comforted over you in our affliction and ditress by your faith...now we live...stand fast in the Lord...
 
Isn't that real hope, knowing, by faith, God will keep us safe here?
 
Now rapturists, explain this;
 
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matt 24:29-31 (KJV)
 
If there were a rapture, it is after tribulation.  The resurrections are after the great tribulation.  Mark 13:24.
 
31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? 32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.  John 16:31-33 (KJV).
 
Awesome, having faith in God will garrantee peace, even in tribulation, knowing God will get us through.
 
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. Acts 14:22 (KJV)
 
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.  Romans 5:1-5 (KJV)
 
If we don't give this message of faith in God, what will happen to those believing in a rapture when there isn't one?  Or worse yet, if there is one given by the great deceiver whom poses as an angel of light?  They will be as the seed planted in stoney ground or amidst the thorns.  Matt. 13.
 
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.  Romans 8:31-39 (KJV)
 
11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; 12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. 14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Romans 12:11-14 (KJV)
 
4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.  2 Cor 1:4 (KJV)
 
4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.  2 Cor 7:4 (KJV)
 
Eph. 13:all of it!
 
2 Thes. 1:4.
 
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.  Rev 2:10 (KJV)
 
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.  Rev 7:14-15 (KJV)
 
True hope comes by faith God to get through tribulation, not avoiding it.
 
Rev. 4:1-2 was a twist, John was shown the throne in heaven, not showing us that we are going to heaven.  As I have shown with Scripture, it will be set up on earth.
 
Take care with false doctrines that deceive and condemn and practice diligence.
 
Be blessed,
 
Curt

Reply
 Message 10 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAalie-Sent: 6/2/2005 11:29 PM
This is what we believe in this group, check it out in the What We Believe page to the left of your screen.
 
10. The Blessed Hope

The resurrection of those who have fallen asleep in Christ and their translation together with those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord is the imminent and blessed hope of the church.

· 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 · Romans 8:23 · Titus 2:13

· 1 Corinthians 15:51,52


Reply
 Message 11 of 21 in Discussion 
From: WinkSent: 6/2/2005 11:55 PM
So why belief in rapture?  None of those say, "we shall meet in heaven" or like phrases.
 
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  1 Thess 4:16-17 (KJV)
 
Because there is a meeting in the air doesn't mean there is a wisking away.  And it still occurs after the tribulation.
 
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13 (KJV)
 
There's God appearing, but not taking, hmmmmmm.
 
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.  Romans 8:23 (KJV)
 
There's talk of adoption and redemption but none of rapture or going to heaven.  Many Scripture tell of heavenly promises and the like but none say we are promised heaven.
 
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.  1 Cor 15:51-57 (KJV)
 
Here is the real promise and victory.  Yet it isn't in heaven; our promise since Abraham is the earth.  Abraham died, not yet receiving the promise.  Not one person has ever had the earth...the Devil has the earth.  At least for a short while longer.
 
Be blessed,
 
Curt

Reply
 Message 12 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAalie-Sent: 6/4/2005 3:27 AM

Revealing If We Can Still Believe In The Rapture?

The second coming of Christ. is the basis of the Christian's blessed hope, . the one event which will mark the beginning of the completion of God's plan

"AND THEY SHALL BE MINE, SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS, IN THAT DAY WHEN I MAKE UP MY JEWELS AND I WILL SPARE THEM, AS A MAN SPARETH HIS OWN SON THAT SERVETH HIM." (Mal. 3:17.)

"And so we can see there will be no rapture for the church!" the pastor thundered as he reached the end of his sermon.  "All we can really look forward to is trouble, trouble, and more trouble!"

I sat bemused It had been a classic defence of the amillennial position on the return of Christ.  Like many amillennialists, the pastor, a dear friend, assumed that times of tribulation would continue throughout the Church Age and intensify toward the end times. Dismissing the idea of a pre-tribulational rapture (by which the church would escape the tribulation), he then dismissed the idea of any rapture at all, conveniently throwing I Thessalonians 4:13-18 right out the stained-glass windows.

Many who do not believe in a pre-tribulational rapture falsely assume there will be no rapture at all.  This is a complete misconception.  If one takes seriously passages like I Thessalonians 4:17, he or she is forced to conclude that there will be a rapture.

The only real debate is over when it will occur.  The passage reads: "We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."

Arguments raised against the rapture, on the basis that it is difficult to conceive of what it would be like for millions of people to suddenly disappear, are irrelevant.

What is The Rapture?

The Rapture Can be described as God's evacuation Plan for true Bible Believing Christians, from the earth, to Heaven.

It was originally taught by the apostle Paul, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, to the church in Thessalonica. The Thessalonians were the first ones to receive the Holy Spirit inspired teaching of "The Blessed Hope". The Blessed Hope as the teaching was originally called, was taught by the apostle Paul starting in the First century AD. (I Thessalonians 4-5)

Other apostles such as John, Matthew, Luke also made reference to "The Blessed Hope". Also see: (I Cor. 15:52)

The other references to "The Blessed Hope" are referred to in: (cf: Matt. 24:42, Matt. 25:13, Luke 12:36-48, Acts 1:11, Phil. 3:20-21, Titus. 2:11-13)

The Teaching of "The Blessed Hope" was deeply entrenched and taught in the early Church, for the first two centuries, starting with the apostle Paul, and referenced to also by Matthew, John, and Luke.

 So what happened to the original teaching of "The Blessed Hope"?

Well in the last ten years of the second century and all through out the third century, We had the rise of a heretical church and the heretical school of theology at Alexandria, Egypt. They advanced the erroneous principle that the Bible should be interpreted in a nonliteral or allegorical sense. The result of their heresy was that the original teaching of "The Blessed Hope" was done away with because they couldn't understand or visualize it. They just didn't want to believe it.

They had no faith in the teaching - they were so arrogant - their minds were so small and their ego's so big, that they couldn't picture or understand the Lord returning to remove or Catch away all the true living Believers at some future date. God Himself said in Jeremiah: 32:27: "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" The original apostles were now all dead and were not available to fight back against this heresy. A Small number of the faithful and True Believers made every attempt to keep the teaching of The Blessed Hope alive, but were soon out numbered and out gunned by by this new and heretical unbelief.

This went on through out all the centuries and on into and through what we call the Dark Ages.

The revival of the original teaching of The Blessed Hope, did not start to make a significant comeback until the last several centuries.

To date, we still have a significantly large number of professing Christians, that follow and believe the heretical teachings that began with and were so widely propagated by the heretical church and the heretical school of theology at Alexandria, Egypt.

And so the battle continues to this day. To believe the original teachings of "The Blessed Hope" by Paul and the apostles that they so vehemently taught to the early church or to abandoned these teachings and accept the heretical teachings of "No Hope" of a divine intervention - a catching away -a rescue- a removal of all living believers by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Who would you rather believe? - the original Apostles inspired by the Holy Spirit - or Some heretical theologians that decided to do away with the original teachings of the Apostles and replace it with a doctrine of "No Hope"

Let me say this, if you have decided not to believe in the pre-tribulation, pre-millennial rapture of all the true and faithful Bible Believing Christians and have instead, in your unbelief, decided you would rather go through the tribulation, the Armageddon war and would rather come under the terrible persecution and rule of the Antichrist - God will oblige you and honor your request. You will be "Left Behind" to suffer and to be martyred under the rule of Antichrist. If this is what you prefer and want, He will allow it to happen and you will be "Left Behind". He will honor your decision. The choice is yours. As for myself and the multiple millions of true and faithful Bible Believing Christians that do believe in the rapture, we would rather be removed, evacuated, rescued and snatched out of the way so we don't have to suffer the tribulation, the Armageddon war, the terrible persecution and death that will occur under the rulership of the Antichrist.

We call the teaching of "The Blessed Hope" the "Rapture" today. The word Rapture is From the Latin Word "Rapio or rapturo" which means a "snatching away or to be Caught up and taken away quickly"

Some make joking remarks about bumping your head on the ceiling, or false teeth being left behind, or hundreds of car accidents suddenly occurring, these comments are inconsequential in light of the fact that Scripture clearly states that we will be "caught up" (Greek, harpazo) (Latin, Rapturo) into the air.

There will be a rapture!  The only serious questions are:

  • 1) When will it occur?

  • 2) What is its relationship to the return of Christ at the time of His second coming?

If it can be proved that the body of believers (the church) will be "caught up" (Latin, Rapturo) into heaven and that this "gathering together" (Greek, episunagoges, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1) is a separate event from the return of Christ in judgement, the pre-tribulationist has more than adequately made his case.

The Nature of His Coming

The New Testament clearly teaches that Jesus Christ will "come again" (John 14:3) and "appear the second time" (Hebrews 9:28) for His own.  He promised this to His disciples in the upper room.

"I go to prepare a place for you," the Lord said, "and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also." (John 14:23) This is our Lord's first indication that He will return specifically given to comfort the disciples the time of His absence.

Many believe this is the first clear reference in our Lord's teaching of the rapture of the believers. In Hebrews 9:28, he has believers in view when he states: "So Christ was once offered to the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Again, the promise of our Lord's return for His own is sounded loud and clear.

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." (I Thessalonians 1:10)

This Time of His Coming

Most evangelicals agree as to the nature of Christ's coming, but there is substantial disagreement about the time.

Millard Erickson observes: "The one eschatological doctrine on which orthodox theologians most agree is the second coming of Christ.  It is indispensable to eschatology.  It is the basis of the Christian's blessed hope, the one event which will mark the beginning of the completion of God's plan."

The New Testament picture of our Lord's return emphasizes at least six distinct aspects of the time of His coming.  These may be summarized as follows:

*1. Future.  The entire emphasis of the New Testament points to a future return of Christ.  He promised, "I will come again." (John 14:3) The angels promised He would return (Acts 1: 11).  The apostles taught the certainty of His future (Philippians 3:20; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 3:3-8, 1 John 3:2-3).

*2. Imminent.  The return of Jesus Christ is always described as potentially imminent or "at hand" (Revelation 1: 3, 22: 10).  Every generation of believers is warned to be ready for His coming, as Luke 12:40 states: "Be ... ready also: for the Son of Man comes at an hour you think not." Believers are constantly urged to look for the coming of the Lord.  These scriptures include: Philippians 3:20; Hebrews 9:28; Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:6.

*3. Distant.  From God's perspective, Jesus is coming at any moment.  But from the human perspective, it has already been nearly 2,000 years.  Jesus hinted at this in the Olivet Discourse in the illustration of the man who traveled into a "far country" (heaven) and was gone "a long time" (Matthew 25:19).  Peter also implies this in his prediction that men will begin to scoff at the second coming, after a long period of time (2 Peter 3:3-9).

*4. Undated.  While the rapture is the next major event on the prophetic calendar, it is undated, as is the "Blessed Hope" and glorious appearing of Christ. (Titus 2:13). Jesus said: "But of that day and hour knoweth not man, no not the angels of heaven."(Matthew 24:36) Later he added: "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons." (Acts 1:7) That was, for those of His generation. Jesus knew that they would not be living at the time of His Second Coming.

 *[see our on-line document: "Revealing The Earths Final Generation"]

*5. Unexpected.  The mass of humanity will not be looking for Christ when He returns, as evidenced in Matthew 24:50-1 Luke 21:35.  They will be saying, "peace and safety," when suddenly caught unprepared by His return.  So unexpected will His return be that "as a snare shall it come in that dwell on the face of the earth." (Luke 21:35)

*6. Sudden. The Bible warns that Jesus will come "as a thief in the night ... (and) then sudden destruction" will come upon the unbelieving world. (I Thessalonians 5:2-3) His return for the bride will occur in a flash: "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye ... for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead (believers) shall be raised incorruptible, and we (living believers) shall be changed." (I Corinthians 15:52)

Two Aspects of His Coming

There are certain similarities between the rapture passages and the coming passages, since they refer to future events relating to our Lord's return.  But similarity does not mean they are referring to the same event.

Pre-tribulationists believe there are enough substantial differences between the two aspects of Christ's coming so as to render them as two separate and distinct events.

The rapture is characterized in the New Testament as a "translation coming", in which Christ comes for His church, taking her to His Father's house (John 14:3, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:51-52).

Here, He claims her as His bride and the marriage supper of the Lamb begins. Whatever view one holds in regard to our Lord's return, one thing is clear in prophetic Scripture, the marriage occurs in heaven (Revelation 19:7-9) before the triumphal return of Christ with His redeemed church at His side (Revelation 19:11-16).

Non-pre-tribulationists are at a virtual loss to explain how the church got to heaven prior to returning with Christ at the battle of Armageddon.  At best, some suggest they are "caught up" after the tribulation only to return immediately with the Lord.

This arrangement, however leaves little or no time for the wedding!

The return of Christ is series of events fulfilling all end-time prophecies.  These include predictions of His coming for His church and His coming with His church.

Pre-tribulationists divide the return of Christ in two main phases: the rapture of the church and the second coming of Christ.

In the first aspect, our Lord comes to take His own (the living and the dead) to be with Him.

In the second aspect, He returns with His resurrected and raptured saints to win the battle of Armageddon and to establish His kingdom on earth (Revelation 5:10), "and we shall reign on the earth".

The Bible is filled with detailed predictions about both aspects of Christ's return.  Just as the Scripture predicted two aspects of our Lord's first coming (His suffering and His glory), so it predicts two aspects of His second coming.

The different aspects of our Lord's return are clearly delineated in the Scripture.  The only real issue in the eschatological debate is the time interval between them.

Pre-tibulationists place the seven year tribulation period between the rapture and the return.

This allows for the proper fulfillment of Daniel's"seventieth week," and it clearly separates the rapture from the return.

The church's Blessed hope is the rapture.  She awaits the Savior who is coming for His bride.

The church may endure persecution, trouble, and difficulty in the meantime.  But she is not the object of divine wrath.

The church does not await destruction as the world does.  Rather, she awaits the coming of her Lord and King.

Let Us Pray Together--

PRAY: "God be merciful to me a sinner. Receive me now for Christ's sake. Cleanse me from my sin by your precious blood, shed on the cross for me; lead me to be Baptized and fill me with your Holy Spirit. Teach me to pray each day; to read Your will for my life from your word, the Bible; and help me to worship and serve You in the fellowship of your church. I thank you Lord Jesus Christ. AMEN! 


 


Reply
 Message 13 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAalie-Sent: 6/4/2005 3:28 AM

Contrast Between The Rapture and The Return Of Christ

RAPTURE!

RETURN!

1. Christ Comes For His Own.
(John 14:3) (1 Thess.14:3) (2 Thess. 2:1)

1. Christ Comes With His Own.
(1 Thess.3:13) (Jude 14) (Rev. 19:14)

2. He Comes In The Air.
(1 Thess. 4:17)

2. He Comes To The Earth.
(Zech. 14:4) (Acts 1:11)

3. He Claims His Bride.
(1 Thess. 4:16-17)

3. He Comes With His Bride.
(Rev. 19:6-14)

4. Removal Of Believers.
(1 Thess. 4:17)

4. Manifestation Of Christ.
( Malachi 4:2)

5. Only His Own See Him.
(1 Thess. 4:13-18)

5. Every Eye Shall See Him.
(Rev. 1:7)

6. Tribulation Begins.
(2 Thess. 1:6-9)

6. Millennial Kingdom Begins.
(Rev. 20:1-7)

7. Saved Are Delivered from Wrath.
(1 Thess. 1:10; 5-9)

7. Unsaved experience The Wrath Of God.
(Rev. 6:12-17)

8. No Signs Precede The Rapture.
(1 Thess. 4:13-18)

8. Signs precede The second Coming.
(Luke 21:11-15)

9. Focus: Lord And Church
(1 Thess. 2:3-12)

9. Focus: Israel And Kingdom.
(Matt. 24:14)

10. World Is Deceived.
(2 Thess. 2:3-12)

10. Satan Is Bound.
(Rev. 20:1-2)


Reply
 Message 14 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameUpscaleSuzy1Sent: 6/5/2005 10:28 PM
 

PRAY: "God be merciful to me a sinner. Receive me now for Christ's sake. Cleanse me from my sin by your precious blood, shed on the cross for me; lead me to be Baptized and fill me with your Holy Spirit. Teach me to pray each day; to read Your will for my life from your word, the Bible; and help me to worship and serve You in the fellowship of your church. I thank you Lord Jesus Christ. AMEN! 

 Love, Suzy


Reply
 Message 15 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSir_Jeep64Sent: 12/20/2005 4:09 PM
Interesting where did Christian_Boy  hear that it is the 112th Pope that is to lead the world in the Trib. since the only one that knows when Christ's is to  return is God?

Reply
 Message 16 of 21 in Discussion 
From: DavidSent: 3/13/2006 12:22 PM
 

The Rapture vs. The Second Coming

The Rapture and the 2nd Coming of Christ are not the same events. The Rapture is when Jesus comes in the air for His Church, but His feet will not touch earth. The 2nd Coming is when Jesus comes back to earth and His feet stand on the Mount of Olives.

7 years of Tribulation

In the Old Testament, there were 2 different pictures painted of the Messiah—one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these Scriptures, we see they predicted 2 separate comings of the Messiah—the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King.

In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have 2 pictures painted, and they don’t look the same. These 2 different descriptions of Jesus�?coming point to two separate events. One is the "The Rapture" (the snatching away) and the other, "The Second Coming."

I don't know if this is allowed or not but I have posted 15 differences between the Rapture and the Second coming on this page addy. http://www.endtimescorner.laserneedle.com/  My only goal is to help with the understanding that people have of different events. It is not to get you to believe as I do but I think it will put a few questions in your mind that you can then take to the Lord for understanding. ---les---


Reply
 Message 17 of 21 in Discussion 
From: DavidSent: 3/13/2006 12:56 PM
Thats an interesting point Jeep 64 but it only serves to show that there are 2 events being spoken of. The Rapture, and the Second Coming. I would be interested in knowing which scriptures you are refering to that tell us that only the Father knows? No challenge, just a study point.---les---

Reply
(1 recommendation so far) Message 18 of 21 in Discussion 
From: DavidSent: 3/13/2006 2:49 PM
Let me go a few steps farther about the Rapture. This question was asked above. 

"What is The Rapture?

The Rapture Can be described as God's evacuation Plan for true Bible Believing Christians, from the earth, to Heaven."

Yes, that is true but it is not my escape from anything. If it is to be spoken as an escape, it will only be spoken of by those who were left behind. They will see it as we escaped what they knew was coming but wasn't ready for when it happened. As for me Christ will come and take us to be with Him. My last day on earth will come and then I will be gone. I won't know what happens on earth the next day because I'm on my way to a WEDDING. The Rapture is not the Great escape from the tribulation that we hear about, it is the Great Wedding that we have all been looking for. It's the beginning of the wedding between Christ (The Bridegroom) and the Church (The Bride). Now I know we have all heard that so many times before but maybe you have never taken it into our thinking in the Jewish manner that it was written in. I'm sure we have all realized that so much of God's Word is written along the lines of the Jewish ways. Christ was a Jew and his beliefes were Jewish so that shouldn't surprise us. When the rapture occurs, we are not only going to a wedding, we are the Bride so lets think along those lines.

The Rapture, The Wedding.

"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am there ye may be also".

John 14:1. Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. <o:p></o:p>

                    2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would                     have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. <o:p></o:p>

              3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive `                          you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.<o:p></o:p>

To those who read the Bible, these are familiar words of promise from Jesus to His Church. But do you know that they are also the words of a Jewish bridegroom to his bride?

If we examine the words and customs of a Jewish marriage in the days of Jesus, we find that He used just such terms to portray His coming as the Heavenly Bridegroom for His Bride--the Church. It is a glorious promise! Now, look with me into ancient history--to Jewish marriage customs, for in them we shall see some profound prophetic implications applying to the Lord Jesus and His Church.

 Jewish Marriage Customs--The Jewish Bridegroom Seeks His Bride In Bible days, when   a young Jewish man chose his bride-to-be, he traveled from his father's house to her home to discuss betrothal--the first major step in establishing the marriage covenant. There he negotiated with her father the purchase price he would pay (called in the Hebrew tongue the mohar) to make her his own.

Once the bridegroom paid that price, the marriage covenant was established; and the young man and woman were regarded as promised to one another-husband and wife. From that moment the bride was declared "sanctified," or set apart exclusively for her bridegroom. As a symbol of this established covenant relationship, the groom and the bride would drink from a cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been prayed.

After establishing the marriage covenant, the bridegroom would leave the bride's home and return to his father's house, where he remained, separated from his bride for a period of days, weeks, and months. Before he left her, however, the bridegroom made his bride this special promise: "Let not your heart be troubled . . . I go to prepare a place for you . . . and . . . I will come again."


During their time apart, the groom built a bridal chamber in his father's house, preparing for their coming marriage day. Also during this time, the bride prepared her wedding dress, gathered her trousseau, and made herself ready to be the wife in married life with her beloved groom when he returned. All through this waiting time, the bride wore a veil as a symbol of her consecration to her groom alone. She would not be seen or known by
strangers. When all was ready, the groom, with his best man and groomsmen, would
lead a nighttime torchlight procession to the bride's home, where he would receive his bride and take her to be with him. Though the bride expected her bridegroom to come at any time, she did not know the exact day or hour when he would appear. His only warning of arrival was a shout--alerting the bride that it was time at last to come out to meet and greet her groom.

Then the groom, with his bride and the entire wedding party, returned back to his father's house, where they found that the father had prepared a great marriage feast for all his wedding guests. Soon after arrival, the bridegroom and bride were escorted by wedding party members to the bridal chamber (Hebrew: huppah). The bridegroom and bride went together into the bridal chamber to enter into their first physical union, consummating
their covenanted marriage. The best man waited outside the chamber, listening
for the groom's prearranged signal.


When the marriage was consummated, the groom signaled the best man, <o:p></o:p>

John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.<o:p></o:p>

 who told the good news to the wedding guests; and all rejoiced and feasted in a seven-day marriage celebration. During that celebration, the bride remained hidden in the bridal chamber. When the seven days were completed, the groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber (with her veil removed) so that all could see her.

Christ and His Bride: The Heavenly Bridegroom Seeks His Bride. What do these Jewish marriage customs mean to you and me today? Why recall or study them at all? Because they give us an exciting "wedding portrait" of our blessed Saviour and His Bride-the Church! No less than ten major statements in New Testament Scripture refer to Jesus Christ the Son of God as the "Bridegroom," and to the Church as His "Bride." It is the most magnificent and beautiful love story anywhere in the pages of prophecy. And we who belong to the Saviour, who are the "Bride of Christ," eagerly and expectantly await the return of the Bridegroom.

To begin with, let us establish that Jesus Himself is the Bridegroom. In

Matthew 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.<o:p></o:p>

Mark 2:19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. <o:p></o:p>

20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.<o:p></o:p>

 Luke 5:34 And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? <o:p></o:p>

35. But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.<o:p></o:p>

 our Lord makes it abundantly clear that He is the Bridegroom: "And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."


Again, in  <o:p></o:p>

John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.<o:p></o:p>

, John the Baptist refers to "the bride" and "the bridegroom." Then, just hours before His Cross, in  <o:p></o:p>

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. <o:p></o:p>

2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. <o:p></o:p>

3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.<o:p></o:p>

, Jesus made that great and precious promise of the Heavenly Bridegroom to His Bride. His promise is the "blessed hope" of the Church. The Bible makes it abundantly clear also that the Bride of Christ is the Church.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.<o:p></o:p>

 speaks of the marriage relationship as a picture of Christ and His Church. Notice: ". . . the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

The Bride of Christ is that vast body of believers who in these last 2,000 years have received Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. Consider another passage from Paul's pen, where he told the Corinthian believers: ". . . I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ" <o:p></o:p>

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.<o:p></o:p>

So, who is the "Bride of Christ"? Obviously, Church-age believers belonging to Christ are His Bride. Now, read John 14:1-3 again, <o:p></o:p>

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. <o:p></o:p>

2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. <o:p></o:p>

3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.<o:p></o:p>

and remember what Jesus said in that powerful promise passage. Jesus chose the Church to be His Bride. Just as the Jewish bridegroom left his father's house to seek his bride, so Jesus left His Father's house in Heaven and came to earth 2,000 years ago to select His Bride.

Other Contrasts
The Jewish groom paid a price to purchase his bride, and Jesus paid a price to purchase His Bride. The price He paid was His own life. He said, ". <o:p></o:p>

John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.<o:p></o:p>

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.<o:p></o:p>

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:<o:p></o:p>

. Once the marriage covenant was established, the Jewish bride was set apart exclusively for her groom. Likewise, the Church has been sanctified, or set apart exclusively, for Christ 

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;<o:p></o:p>

26. That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, <o:p></o:p>

27. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.<o:p></o:p>



1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Another interesting contrast is this: The cup of wine at the Jewish wedding was symbolic of the marriage covenant by which the Jewish groom obtained his bride. And the cup of communion that we drink is symbolic of the New Covenant through which Christ has obtained the Church
1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

 Just as the Jewish groom returned to his father's house after the marriage covenant had been established, so Jesus left the earth and returned to His Father's house in Heaven after He had established the New Covenant and
rose from the dead 

 John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?<o:p></o:p>

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.<o:p></o:p>

Just as the Jewish groom and bride were separated for a time, Christ has been separated from the Church for over 1,900 years. The Church is now living in that period of separation. Just as the Jewish groom spent time preparing living accommodations for
his bride in his father's house, Jesus has been preparing living accommodations for us in His Father's house in Heaven (John 14:2). As the Jewish groom came to take his bride to live with him at the end of the period of separation, so Christ will come to take the Church to live with Him at the end of this Church Age 
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.<o:p></o:p>

Just as the coming for the Jewish bride began by a torchlight procession of the groom and groomsmen from the groom's father's house to the home of the bride, so the taking of the Church will be accomplished by a procession of Christ and an angelic host from the Father's house in Heaven to the earth 

<o:p></o:p>

Just as the Jewish bride did not know the exact time of the groom's coming, the Church does not know the exact time of Christ's coming. In the same way that the Jewish groom's arrival was preceded by a shout, so Christ's arrival to take the Church will be preceded by a shout
1 Thessalonians 4:16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:<o:p></o:p>

Just as the Jewish wedding party found wedding guests assembled in the groom's father's house when they arrived, so Messiah and the Church will find the souls of Old Testament saints assembled in Heaven when they arrive. These friends of the bridegroom will serve as the wedding guests. Just as the Jewish groom and bride entered into physical union after they arrived at the groom's father's house (thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted earlier), Jesus and the Church will experience a great spiritual union after their arrival at the Father's house in Heaven.

Just as the Jewish bride remained hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven years (the Tribulation) after arrival at the Father's house in Heaven. While the seven-year Tribulation Period is taking place on earth, the Church will be in heaven--totally hidden from the sight of those on the earth.

Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days so that all could see who the bride was, so Christ will bring the Church out of Heaven at the end of the seven-year Tribulation Period, so that all can see the identity of the true Church (Col. 3:4).

Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 THIS IS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

What Does It Mean To Us Today?
These beautiful comparisons between the Jewish marriage and the coming of our Bridegroom teach us many things, but the most important is to be ready for our bridegroom's coming.

Are we going to be like the 10 virgins? All felt they were ready for the bridegroom but when the time of his arrival came, 5 were ready and 5 were not. I believe the 5 who were ready represent the Church of Philidelphia who held the Key of David, Christ, and the 5 who were not ready represent the Laodicean church, those who had no need for Christ. 
What does the coming of the Bridegroom mean to you? Are you one of the 5 brides who were ready and went to be with the Bridegroom or one of those that the Bridegroom, Christ said he never knew?

 

  


Reply
 Message 19 of 21 in Discussion 
From: DavidSent: 3/15/2006 3:08 PM

 Rapture and 2nd Com,ing.doc  

Reply
 Message 20 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSwordmaster08Sent: 10/22/2007 8:29 PM
So ... How many "second comings" are there?  Christ came in judgment in 70 AD.  He will supposedly come secretly to take the Christians out of the world.  He will come again after 7 years of tribulation.  That makes 3 as I count them.
 
Wink, I agree with you.  No where does the Bible say that we will live in heaven.  Everything I read says that the righteous will inherit the earth, the wealth of the wicked, etc.  The wicked are taken first and burned (the Wheat and the Tares) the bad fish are taken out of the net and destroyed, etc. 

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 Message 21 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSwordmaster08Sent: 12/9/2007 7:42 PM
"Matt. 24:14 says that the gospel will be preached to all the world and then the end will come."  You are absolutely correct.  However, it had happened already as Paul was writing  Romans 1:8 says, "First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."  Romans 10:18 also states, But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."  And, in Colossians 1:6 we read, "Which is come unto yuou, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in trugh:"
Why do our preachers not understand the Scripture and why do we look forward to something that has already happened?

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