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General : Any Thoughts on Mike Gravel?
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 Message 1 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamemacroscopic  (Original Message)Sent: 4/6/2008 6:02 AM
I heard he was running Libertarian.
Any thoughts?


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 Message 9 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamepuma2371Sent: 4/7/2008 3:17 PM
the major difference is that he espouses the concept of democracy. this fits into libertarian idealism about like a glove fits a foot.

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 Message 10 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemacroscopicSent: 4/9/2008 1:10 AM
puma- are you referring to his "direct democracy" initiative?  how does that NOT fit into the libertarian perspective?
 
(i am not ridiculing here, i am genuinely curious)

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 Message 11 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamepuma2371Sent: 4/9/2008 1:59 AM
macro, here is a primer for you. if you need more, just put the words <not a democracy> into your favorite search box and you will find much much more.
 
but i thought that ron paul said it most eloquently and concisely.
 
 
gravel's bill would only serve to continue the farce of a government gone totally rogue.
 
the fedgov of the united states is wildly off the leash to the point of high treason. all three branches.
 
legislation is not going to stop this travesty. only we the people's most adamant insistance on adherence to its constitutional limitations will solve the problem.

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 Message 12 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemacroscopicSent: 4/9/2008 2:40 AM
ok, puma.  thanks.  that makes sense.
 
(i proudly voted for Paul in the primary)

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 Message 13 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJuniusJnrSent: 4/13/2008 2:25 PM
Until I saw his name on a poll, I had no idea who he is so I don't think he can win unless he gets up and does something to promote himself.

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 Message 14 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJazzyJaimeSent: 4/14/2008 12:06 PM
After going to vote-smart.org, I was surprised to see how many Libertarian Presidential candidates are out there....  I was further shocked to see how many were not true Libertarians after reading what policies they supported.  One candidate actually supported greatly increasing almost every single budget in the federal government, except one - the defense budget.  He was also a hardcore social conservative, with wanting the governmen to intervene in our personal lives.  Do people even read about Libertarianism before they jump on the LP ticket?  There should be a law...

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 Message 15 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemacroscopicSent: 4/14/2008 7:26 PM
LOL!

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 Message 16 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemacroscopicSent: 4/14/2008 7:26 PM
JJ- was the irony of your last two sentences intended or not?

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 Message 17 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJazzyJaimeSent: 4/14/2008 7:42 PM
:) Would love to claim credit...but it is all due to my subconscious
layer...

- JazzyJ


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 Message 18 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamepuma2371Sent: 4/15/2008 3:21 PM
jazzy,
the libertarian party has been coopted, invaded, intruded upon and infiltrated by every looney toon who can't quite get a square philosophic fit with either of the two major parties.
 
kind of in the same vein as macro's allusion to your unintended irony, the party has had a major flaw from the get go. that flaw lies in the fact that a true libertarian is, by definition, not a joiner.
 
so, what the party is basically a witches brew of all kinds of fringe ideology.
 
the platform is sound, at least it was the last time i went to look, but like the constitution today, not many are paying attention to it.

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 Message 19 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemacroscopicSent: 5/27/2008 2:00 AM
Gravel announced today that he is quitting politics. i will miss him. he is a unique individual. he was also instrumental in bringing down Nixon.

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Sent: 8/12/2008 6:02 PM
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 Message 21 of 23 in Discussion 
From: codifySent: 8/13/2008 5:05 AM
#1  
Unread 06-01-2008, 10:49 PM
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Arrow Democracy is NOT FREEDOM! By Ron Paul - Good Riddance Mike Gravel!
----------- BEGIN EDIT --------------

I wanted to add this note because I thought it was important. I realized that I sound rather negative in this post. I am a positive person looking to making POSITIVE change in this country and this world. I thought about where my negative energy was coming from. I realized that it came from my experience with a die-hard Gravel supporter who I have been debating with. This individual is very new to the concepts of libertarianism. I personally don't feel like he is coming from the same place as most of us in "The Revolution". But I do recognize that even as a minority amoung us, each one of us has something to offer. I am not sure if I started the negative attacks with this person. I kind of doubt I did. But I do want to release myself from negativity. I DO believe this individual and Mike Gravel are not thinking the matter through to it's end point. I do hope that they will give some time to the study of the philosophy of people like Ayn Rand and G. Edward Griffin.

----------- END EDIT --------------

http://www.NorthVirginiaPatriots.com...vel%20Song.mp3

Put the nail in the coffin of Mike Gravel and his strange ideas. While he is undoubtedly a patriot, he, his ideas, and his uneducated followers do NOT belong in The Revolution.

His political career has now ended and I am not surprised. Whenever any principled and educated libertarian challenged him, he became very aggrivated and condescending. In my opinion, it was very foolish of him to think he could "fool the revolution". Mike, go fillibuster some more, at least that did some good for the people!

Those who were fooled by Gravel should be vary wary of their lack of understanding of the core values of freedom and libertarianism. Fellow revolutionaries, be very wary of these Marxist infiltrators amoungst us. DEMOCRACY IS NOT FREEDOM!

Don't take MY word for it! Even though Ron Paul is mainly writing about the Iraq war here, his views on "Democracy" are very clear. Here are his words:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=140896
 
 
There is even a poll as to whether anybody you know was fooled by Gravel.

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Sent: 8/15/2008 6:05 AM
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 Message 23 of 23 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemacroscopicSent: 8/15/2008 6:11 AM
"There is even a poll as to whether anybody you know was fooled by Gravel."

i don't much care for this tactic. just because someone like me LIKES Gravel, does not mean that he is "fooled" by him, any more than i am "fooled" by Bob Barr.

i think that Gravel has his own agenda. i think that this agenda is not well accomodated by the GOP or the Dems. that leaves him little option but to run third party.

it may be the case that Gravel does not marry well with Libertarianism. it may also be the case that he was unwise to run on that ticket. but i respect him, nonetheless.

but then again, i have never been too keen of the rabid anticommunist/Randian wing of the Libertarian party, so perhaps it is a bit easier for me to swallow the idea of a Barr than many others in the party.

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