 |
Reply
| | From:  dracony_gimp (Original Message) | Sent: 6/13/2008 10:41 PM |
I wonder, if God/s/ess/esses love everyone equally why do people starve to death and live in poverty? Well i do understand that one might say that they dont feel unhappy because they got used to working hard, and they do have their own happieness. but like show a hungry kid a photo of some superstar that has practicly everything he/she wishes. how come that kid doesnt have all that?
Voice: he''ll always have just enough what he'll want. |
|
 First
Previous
2-11 of 11
Next
Last
|
Reply
| |
In my view, its either one of two things. 1. There is no god. There is no being whom created and loved us and then preceeded to turn its back on us. 2. If there is such a God, it can punish me all it wants for spitting in its face. In either case, its ALL on our Own shoulders. |
|
Reply
| |
Even the most inpoverished will still have faith in dieties and spirits. They give thanks for their survival, and each loss makes others around them even more celebrant about the life they've come to enjoy in the weeks and months and years to follow. If we were to look at this from a purely Biblical POV, we would see that the Earth is not the domain of God. It is His creation, but has since become the domain of Satan and his minions. (Job 1:7 shows that the devil walks the earth. The Book of Solomon identifies Satan as the bringer of death. He is called the "prince of this world" in John 12:31 andd 14:30. Matthew 12:24 calls him the "ruler of demons" and 2 Corinthians 4:4 calls him the "god of this world." It is also idenitifed in the Bible that demons hold sway over whole places, whole cities, states, nations and large regions of this world (Ephesians 6:12; "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities [a term still applied to regions and political realms] and powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."). A modern explanation of this concept is found in the books "Spiritual Warfare" and "Warfare Prayer", which identify various places needing missionary aid to combat the evil powers (including several right here in the US) and how to conduct "strategic prayer". In the end, however, it is up to each man to take control of his own life and destiny. 2 Corinthians 12:1-11 identifies that all men are granted gifts of God. "The manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal" (2 Cor. 12:7). If a people come together to combine their spiritual gifts in concert and harmonious action, they will overcome even the greatest of poverty or drought or famine. It is the Devil and his minions that divide us. Thus some have translated his name to mean the "accuser". |
|
Reply
| |
This was interesting, and it was the comment I saw that made me want to join this site. Among the numerous codex documents that were chosen not to be put in the Bible (there were actually over 30 Gospels, but only 4 were put in the Bible as we know it today), one of them stated that man was created to rejoice the gift God had made. Our purpose here is to celebrate the gift and keep it protected. In fact, the book of Genesis actually tells us that God brought all the creatures of the land before Adam for them to be named and blessed. When man no longer maintains the blessing (communion with nature), he no longer receives the blessings of the Lord. So, when man looks around and sees that his world/ life is all messed up, he has only himself to blame (or the past generations of his lands). In fact, I was looking at a National Geographic program yesterday, called the "Witnesses of the New Testament". It spoke of the Gospels and other documents left by followers of the Apostles. In one of these documents, it records Jesus as laughing when he found the apostles praying in thanks for the world. Apparently, he revealed to them that day that the god that created this world was not the greater God that He bowed to. (This gets into the idea of the archons, if any of you have ever looked into that). At any rate, it kind of makes sense that, in every area that man is not actively maintaining his communion with nature and keeping it safe, the Devil can quickly move in and assume control. One book I read even named Anaheim, CA and some of its surrounding areas as a place needing missionary efforts. That's right here in our country! Anyway, let me end with something of a quote from Krishnamurti. In a speech, he gave a story: "You may remember the story of how the devil and another demon friend of his were walking down the street when they saw a man ahead of them stoop down and pick up something up from the ground, look at it, and then put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, 'What did that man pick up?' The devil responded that the had picked up a piece of the Truth. 'That is a very bad business for you, then, my friend' said thoe other demon. 'Oh, no, not at all,' the devil replied, 'For I am going to help him organize it.'" The idea of the Devil as a manipulator and twister of our perceptions is found in most every philosophy. Perhaps, becuase it is so true. |
|
Reply
| |
HajTC, Nice post. I caught something like what you are talking about in another prgram, wherein they were talking about all of the "heretical" documents that were shot down by Ireneaius in 180 AD. Basically, the Council of Nicea (under Constantine) chose those Gospels and Epistles that were already most popular among the people, as well as those that did not contain potentially subversive statements. In other words, they chose those items which were easier to understand for the common man. Jesus taught more than one level of teachings, which is why some have suggested that he drew from Essenian and other pre-Christian Arabic mystic tradition. What most people are exposed to is only the lowest level of what Jesus offered. After all, he stated that we were all capable of the same miracles that he had demonstrated. There are things within Jesus' teachings that were supposedly beyond even the eyes and understanding of even the angels. That concept, of knowledge so high, is beyond the understanding of most men. Therefore, even many scholars have considered the insinuation of such to be heretical. Personally, I'm not as concerned about "secret" teachings and mystical lore as I am about the example that this being provided to us. He taught us how to live in greater harmony by being more tolerant. His only intolerance was observed when he saw the church being used as a tool for money making. (Side note: The whole issue of his beating the Pharisees and money-lenders out was largely because they had created an environment wherein the average person could not afford to worship. Only a certain standard of animals [those declared suitable by church officials] was allowed, and only church coin could be used. It was all a scheme that benefitted select businesses and the church purse, instead of the people). Much of what we find in smaller scale issues in the Bible we can relate to much larger scale issues of today. Not too much difference between what the Pharisees and church officials were doing back then and what some of our politicians are doing through oil and real estate today. The biggest difference is that today's issues deal more with personal freedom (like that which God opposed through Moses) and those of Jesus' time were more firmly rooted in spirituality. I'm starting to babble into other things. That means it's time for me to get off here. Thanks for your comments. |
|
Reply
| |
Well, I like what this guy said the first time. Like he said, the Bible tells us that Satan is the father of death. From the time of Adam and Eve to the Revelations vision of Death riding a pale horse, death is always associated with Satan. So, it just seems like pure ignorance to me for men to blame God for death. All the four horsemen of the apocalypse (War, Famine, Pestilence and Death) were servants of Satan. Pretty much the same sources of sorrow were recognized by Gautama Buddha, by the way. So, when men blame these things on God, they do little more than show their ignorance. I don't kow anything about these higher teachings of Jesus, and I really don't care to know them. If they were all that important, he'd have taught them to everyone. Instead, he shared them with only a select few. So, it's not important to me. However, I am always concerned that men seem to go out of their way to make excuses about the affairs of men. Knowing that the world of man is finite and limited, why would we strive to make excuses for men, like saying that certain things/ behaviors are natural when they are not observed in nature. Being the smartest of all the beasts, men can rationalize anything... but it is still just a rationalization, not necessarily truth. Like, I'm studying with some Jehovah's Witnesses one day. I'm very liberal and I'll study the Word with just about anyone of any faith. ** But, then they told me that the "heart" always misleads us, and that the "mind" is the path to understanding God, that the mind must be "trained" to reason. I'm sorry, but it just did not feel right to me. Not only does the Bible never say anything like that, but the training of the human mind sound awfully close to the idea of brain-washing to me. ** See what I'm saying? God talks to us through our heart, not through our reasoning minds. Like, it was Moses' reasoning mind that responded with doubt when God told him to go to Egypt and free those slaves. Thought it what creates doubt and insecurity. ** What do I expect, though? The Jehovah's Witness faith started here in these United States in the 30s, after the Depression. Only twisted Americans would come to the conclusion that the reasoning thinking mind is more important than the heart that automatically feels love. It takes no thought to automatically smile when you see a newborn baby, for that is a heart response. Men give too much consideration with this mortal and material world. They make excuses for unnatural things, like those strange people that somehow think sheep are closely related to men (or women, as the disgusting mind would tell it). This other guy tells us that Satan twists the truth, and I agree with that. Satan would have us think that every unnatural thought/ act is natural. He would twist the way we think in every way possible. Why does he do this? To separate us from the divine, be that divine the beauty of nature or the mystery of the infinite cosmos/ universe or the universal mind or the collective consciousness or the Almighty God. He does what he can to keep us from heeding that soft and precious voice that would guide us to be better people and better denizens of this natural world around us. You want to see Satan in action? Look at your car, the factories and the over-population of man all over this world. These are the works of Satan, for this world could exist better and longer without man than it can with him. Man was made with free will and the logical capacities to make choices. Unfortunately, this was exactly what Satan needed to turn us against God. |
|
Reply
| |
Rakshasa? I'll have to look that up, by the way. Nothing on that in the online dictionary, but I'll keep looking. Is it east Indian, Tibetan or Chinese? Anyway, good points there. We've certainly stepped away from the world hunger thing, but I think this thread started out far removed from any concern for world hunger to begin with. Nice to see that there are some other views on this. Hajji, I'm making an assumption that you NetID indicates some familiarity with the Muslim faith. If so, what does the Quran say about this kind of thing? |
|
Reply
| |
Tengu, let me just make that a little easier for you. The rakshasa are a kind of "demon" found in various cultures from the Malay to India. They are famous in Buddhism, since they were assigned to protect the Lotus Sutra and they supposedly teach followers the way of magic. Here's a little piece from Wiki: A rakshasa (Sanskrit: राक्षस�? rākṣasa�?/SPAN>; alternately rakshas, Malay: raksasa, Bengali: rakshosh, Japanese: rasetsuten) is a demon or unrighteous spirit in Hindu and Buddhist mythology. Rakshasas are also called man-eaters ("Nri-chakshas," "Kravyads") or cannibals. A female rakshasa is called a rakshasi, and a female rakshasa in human form is a manushya-rakshasi. According to the Ramayana, rakshasas were created from Brahma's foot; other sources claim they are descended from Pulastya, or from Khasa, or from Nirriti and Nirrita. Legend has it that many rakshasas were particularly wicked humans in previous incarnations. Rakshasas are notorious for disturbing sacrifices, desecrating graves, harassing priests, possessing human beings, and so on. Their fingernails are venomous, and they feed on human flesh and spoiled food. They are shapechangers, illusionists, and magicians. And here's where to find the whole article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakshasa I picked the name after a having a dream about a "standing tiger" that cast spells. I still have the dream journal where I recorded the thing years ago. After that, one popped up in a game of "Chill" (a horror-genre RPG that is no longer around). I thought it was a weird coincidence, considering how they aren't exactly common to our American mind, so I sort of took it as my unwanted totem. Kind of like a shaman might be go out of his way to protect himself after having a dream about a manitou. Anyway, I studied Buddhism for a while thru Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu sects, and somehow got on this study of mysticism. So, the name seemed fitting when I started up my Hotmail account. Demon to demon (kind of fitting considering what we've been talking about here), do you know about the name you picked for your own ID? I see from your profile that you been on the Net much longer than I have, but let me give you a link on that form you've used as your own name or totem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu I'd take it that you were some sort of modern shugenja/ yamabushi or martial artist. |
|
Reply
| |
Aye that. I've been in this faith for other 25 years, long enough to see it go through some strange changes in practice. When I first came into this faith, the American Muslim practice commonly used more than one name for each person, sort of to symbolize growth and development. So, I started off as Brother "Yaya" (something like John), and then "Hajji" and then was ceremonially renamed "Japah", and then Sahaj. Now of course, since the Islam faith has the same cultural roots as those from which Christianity came, we should definitely expect a lot of parallels. This would be just like the parallels you find between Christianity and the Hebrew Judaism. Muslims accept Jesus (Yeshua) as at least having been a very important and powerful prophet/ healer. Satan is referred to as "Shaitan" & "Iblis" in Muslim or Islamic faith. Shaitan would sort of like an English adjective that may be used in reference to men and spirits. Iblis would be our term for the evil entity known more commonly as Devil, and is found in our Quran version of the Genesis story. Now, the primary difference between our view of this entity and that of Christians is that we see Iblis as a "jinn", not as a fallen angel. You see, we see the angels as being servats of God/ Allah, lacking any free will of their own. This is why so many say that man is the greatest creation of Allah. A "jinn" is a spiritual entity made from smokeless fire (an idea we find in your story of Moses, who looked upon a burning bush that was not consumed by the fire) and Iblis came into infamy as a result of pride and jealousy, having refused to bow before Adam when so ordered by Allah. |
|
Reply
| | | From: sokukai | Sent: 6/26/2008 7:04 AM |
Interesting. You guys are definitely talking above my head, but I do like what you are saying. I mean, anybody can complain, but it takes quality people to share things that make other feel good about life. Right? I also like the fact that you pretty much squished the negativity that this thread was started on. I was brought up a Catholic in Rhode Island myself, and even lapsing I like to see positive things being said and shared. Now, here's just a little light humor for you creative minded people to consider: If a NY Puerto Rican is called a "Newyorican" and a Texas Mexican is called "Texacan", what do you call all the other hispanics in this country so that they have cultural identification with both the heritage and the nation? How about all those Californication-als out there? Anyway, have a good night, a better day day tomorrow and a good weekend. |
|
Reply
| |
Soku, Above your head, huh? You'd be surprised at what's over the heads of many people now-days. I was on a site here recently and we were getting into concepts of mysticism, sort of comparing different traditions. This new member jumps on, talking about he'd never heard the word "mysticism" before. After giving dictionary definitions, one of the others members asked the guy where he was from, since we likely all thought of this as a common term. The guys replied that he was from right here in these United States, but that he was not familiar with these "religious concepts" because he was an atheist. I'm sorry, but with movies like "National Treasure" and "DiVinci Code" and the National Geographic/ History Channel stuff out, I'd imagine that you would've had to live in a sealed bottle for your whole life to never here/ read the word mysticism. That's just how I thought of his excuse. What does anyone else here think? Was this guy just making excuses for his ignorance? |
|
|
First
Previous
2-11 of 11
Next
Last
|
|
Free Forum Hosting
Important Announcement
Return to �?Message Board