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or were you a member of the OJ Simpson trial jury?
State of my Bank account proves I wasn't. |
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The Irish invasion by the French was I think Bantry Bay, smashed by Scots regiments. 1797 The Welsh invasion was at Fishguard, and the French were led by an Irishman called Tate from Wexford, who held an American Army commission. 1400 French troops landed, and made themselves unfit for combat by eating huge quantities of goose boiled in butter washed down with vast quantities of Port looted from a wrecked Portuguese ship. They then saw large numbers of Welsh Women who, dressed in traditional red dresses with tall black hats fooled them into thinking they were British soldiers. 500 British soldiers put them to flight. This was the last foreign invasion of Britain until modern immigration laws. |
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Flash,
Re: # 45
reference "The Quiet Man". Love that flick, in spite of its obvious caricature representations of the Irish. Victor McLaglen (a British actor - not Irish) as 'Red' Will Danaher is great, 64 yrs old when the movie was filmed in 1951, he still did most of his own stunts and most of that long fight scene which took at least 3 days to film. In his younger days, he was something of a professional boxer and actually once boxed heavy weight champ Jack Johnson in an exhibition match. |
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Bowleggs Victor Mclaglen served in WW1 in the Royal Irish Rifles and was wounded in 1918. Arnie |
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Bow. but what was the historical incident to which you refer? Mary Kay Donaghers? You say conquistadores, but in fact thanks to the Pope there was an annual roster to go and do catholic things e.g. 1580 French :to invade Martinique Portugal :find some Spice islands Spanish :Turd over England, and have a bash at Ireland on way home. 1581 French :Hit Scotland. Find India Spanish :Your turn for Holland Portugal :Ireland So when it was the Spanish turn for Ireland, the Conquistadores found themselves a few jobs in Mexico. or Peru. |
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Flash,
No historical incident. Mary KATE Danaher was Maureen O'Hara's character in "The Quiet Man". Watch it some day, it's an entertaining diversion from reality.
Must I explain all of my bad jokes? Show us some more effort there, man!
I had read somewhere (sorry, I can't produce the citation at the moment) that most of the Spanish sailors of the Armada who managed to make it ashore to Ireland were in fact killed by the Irish, with only a very few surviving. Again, the recent DNA evidence seems to show negligible post Ice Age Spanish population influence amongst the Irish. |
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Bow Forgive my Philistine attitude to your humour, may the Saints put a flower on your head. "Most of the Spaniards shipwrecked in Ireland were killed either by the Irish or the English soldiers" By the English yes, but you won't be forgetting the Spanish were to the best of my knowledge wrecked on the West Coast of Ireland. where men were men and sheep ran frightened. Dazzled by this cornucopia of quivering toffee coloured Asiatic flesh, the locals set to with a will, thereby obliterating any Gaelic genes for centuries. One of the beneficiaries of this Eastern influx was of course Bill Clinton, who insisted all DNA evidence relating to Irish Ancestry be delivered to him. he also boasted a blood relationship with Col Ghaddafi Peter |
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Perhaps some of the survivors lived to breed with the Irish, but if I remember my clan history right, the Irish (sons of Nmed) came from what is now Spain anyway so there is bound to be some DNA overlap. |
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Lew, Never trust Clan histories. There's many a would be aristocrat discovered Grandad was the local gerontophile. And came from Alabama |
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Flash you are probably right, but when downing Usquibeth by the fire, the clan singer makes much more sense than a DNA test. |
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| | | From: Ygraine | Sent: 8/17/2007 9:29 PM |
The Quiet Man is one of the best films ever! We watch it around St. Patrick's Day yearly. Indeed our youngest daughter is named Mary Kate, after Maureen O'Hara's character - and does she have the temper to match!! The notion that the Black Irish were Spanish descendents is fiction. Re: Garrett Mattingly's Armada among others. Celts spread all over Europe from origins somewhere in central Europe, and there were Germanic Celts, Britons, Scots, Gaels, Bretons, and Cymri (Welsh) who all share the roots. Of course the Scandinavian tribes entered the scene to liven things up as well. |
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Ygraine I'm sorry you are another who has been taken in by Mattingly. Glad you mentioned the Welsh. They were invaded by the Irish, the Lascars, the Arabs, the Bulgars etc etc early to end 19th century. Read Alexander Cordell who is a Trade Union agitator and ex Engineer Officer. Book a ticket to drive up the Rhonnda valley and you will see the architects of this invasion, the Bests and Crowshays the coal and steel barons who imported this labour by the thousands. Steel steel steel. in plates, rods, girders, (much went to the USA who lacked our finishing processes). The nightly pourings of molten iron into ingots. And no shortage of work. men sat down to huge meat meals, slept, returned. And many died of starvation as the Mill owners (I like this bit) locked them out to diminish their wages. The drunken orgies. And when it died down, the Irish turned to digging the canals, some 200 miles to the north then returning to the canals and laying rails across the canal beds as the railways replaced the canals. And all a huge melting pot of races, with the Irish gang-masters in the lead. So a lot of the concept of the Irish sitting in Ireland, starving, going to the USA misses out this dynamic interlude, the birth of our Industrail revolution. Bit mucky for the poets and politicians. Wikepedia of his most famous works�? Rape of the Fair Country (1959), The Hosts of Rebecca (1960) and Song of the Earth (1969)—form the "Mortymer Trilogy", and are part of a series of Cordell novels that portray the turbulent history of early industrial Wales as vividly as any writer has achieved. Faithful to historical fact, he presents events like the birth of trade unionism and rise of the Chartist movement. The "Mortymer Trilogy" is the story of the Mortymer family, commencing in 1826, and tells of the trials of several generations of the family, set against the background of the coal and iron industry. In 1985, at the suggestion of fellow author, Chris Barber, Cordell wrote a prelude to the trilogy, This Proud and Savage Land, which starts in 1800 and tells the story of sixteen year old Hywel Mortymer, who comes from rural Mid-Wales to work in the coal mines and iron works of industrial South Wales. It ends with the birth of his son Iestyn, with which the next book commences. You as an Irish History devotee will be fascinated with the intermingling of the races in South Wales. Enjoy. Peter |
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| | | From: Ygraine | Sent: 8/20/2007 3:48 AM |
Flash, thank you for the recommendations. That chapter of Welsh history is indeed tragic on many levels. I have enjoyed reading about the last true "princes of Wales"- the native Britons. Sharon Kay Penman's books are fabulous! When I was in Britain, I went to Wales and saw Llewellyn's grave site. The stone is magnificent. It is fascinating history and her books are great reads. |
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