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General : Question about HIV tests
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 Message 1 of 4 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJamieDH4  (Original Message)Sent: 4/26/2007 3:19 PM
Hans-
I read this really long sha-bang last night that was completely bashing Rebecca Culshaw. I did not read the entire thing, because frankly I am unable to evaluate the data and so I wouldn't know if the person was being honest or not. For example, there was this article posted in the Lancet that was about how HAART had transformed lives and given AIDS patients a new lease on life. Now, it gave 3 references for this and I probably would have taken it as a fact unless someone hadn't pointed out to me that the references they were referencing were not placebo controlled clinical trials, but rather observational trials.
Anywho, so I do really consider myself capable of evaluating the data. So I was reading this very long file bashing Rebecca Culshaw and her book. In her book she tries to systematically debunk the idea that the tests are 99.9 percent accurate and that they are among the best testing methods available today for any disease. Why is it that everyone except the dissidents ignores the fact that HIV tests do not have a gold standard? Dissidents tend to not bring it up either when it could in fact be very useful. HIV tests accuracy is based on assumed prevalence of a virus and it says it clear as day on the labeling for the testing. Clear as day, and in black and white.
Am I overstating the importance of the "gold standard"?


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 Message 2 of 4 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 4/27/2007 3:50 AM
One might call it "disordered thinking," but what they are talking about is so far outside the simple but strict confines of the scientific method that I usually have little interest in reading about this sort of thing.  Some points to consider:
 
1.  What the "experts" found when they looked for "HIV" is a lot of cellular junk, such as "microvessicles."  This material can indeed be "immunosuppressive," as just about too much of anything can be, but this has nothing to do with a "virus" destroying a particular kind of cell in a particular way.
 
2.  Mostly, when they talk of "HIV" they are talking about "markers" that are supposed to be present if the textbook model or assumptions are correct, which is a huge leap of faith by itself.  Then, on top of this, they don't control for these lab artifact observations correctly, if at all.  Thus, they just keep spinning wider webs of deception as they go along.
 
3.  The math is beyond my level of interest, because if the initial assumptions are wrong, the numbers generated can be total nonsense, not just in "HIV/AIDS" but in other medical/biological issues (like cholesterol levels).  Because a model that is totally incorrect can in fact appear to account for certain phenomena, the numbers people are only dealing with a minor aspect of what now comes under the banner of "HIV/AIDS" cases, and one that is too complex to be reduced in a way that can be tested by the scientific method.
 
4.  The "orthodoxy" never states exactly what their claim is, and they often contradict each other.  This is unacceptable even in history, which is not a science, and here it can cost lives, and so is something that future generations might consider a "crime against humanity."  In the future, you might want to ask any "orthodox" person exactly what his claim about "HIV/AIDS" is.  If there is no specific and clear hypothesis, you can point out that science is not concerned with phantom notions.  When they decide to present a formal hypothesis, you can then try to investigate it properly.

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 Message 3 of 4 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJamieDH4Sent: 4/29/2007 6:15 AM
Okay. But what is the significance of a "gold standard"? How important is it really?

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 Message 4 of 4 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 4/30/2007 3:32 AM
Well, what is it a "gold standard" for?  "HIV?"  To me, a few "retroviral" particles produced in a lab dish, under conditions that do not occur in the body, are irrelevant, so having a "gold standard" for these particles is of little interest to me.  I guess the answer to your question (from me) is that it first has to be demonstrated that whatever you seek the "gold standard" for is the causative factor before you waste time devising tests for the masses to determine if this agent is present.

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