MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The Scientific Debate Forum.Contains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Disclaimer: Read this page first.  
  Links  
  Messages  
  General  
  Nutrition  
  "Mission Statement."  
  Why the "germ theory" is not science.  
  The Underlying Cause of "Disease."  
  The Scientific Method.  
  How dangerous are bacteria and viruses?  
  The Contributions of Hans Selye and others.  
  How direct effects are often ignored, and indirect markers used  
  Understanding "disease" at the molecular level.  
  Understanding disease at the molecular level, part II.  
  What the "common cold" can teach us about illness.  
  The AA connection to today's common "diseases."  
  How easy the key experiments would be to do.  
  The best practical diet and the explanation for it.  
  Fish oil quotes you might want to read  
  Where the "immune system" fits into this view of "disease."  
  How many 'scientific studies' violate the scientific method  
  Why you have to be careful with antioxidants.  
  Why Cancers today are more aggressive than those of the past.  
  The Latest Evidence.  
  Some studies worthy of note.  
  HSWC "in action."  
  How language can impede science.  
  How language impedes science, part II.  
  More on why "germs" don't cause "disease."  
  How a latent virus actually causes "disease."  
  A new report that "says it all."  
  The science "show" must go on?  
  Odds and ends  
  Some thoughts on a book by Robert Gallo.  
  Saturated fatty acids are the solution, not the problem.  
  It's stress, not "germs" that causes disease.  
  Epidemiology: Facts versus "factoids."  
  It's stress, not germs, part II.  
  The latest on "inflammation."  
  Why many nutritional claims make no sense  
  The use of hypotheticals in science.  
  What "viral infections" really do to the body.  
  What determines longevity?  
  An example of an anti-"saturated fat" study that is flawed.  
  A Rough Guide to a Gentle Diet.  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV."  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV." Part II.  
  Okay, so when is this diet going to kill me?  
  Scientific Debate Forum Pictures  
  The EFA Claim Was Refuted Long Ago  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
Here are some important items that I want readers to have access to, even if I have yet to use them in an essay.

ITEM: http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/cooking_cancer.htm

...Boiling at 100 degrees Celsius appears to be the only safe cooking method. In potato-based foods, even cooking at a moderate temperature of 120 degrees Celsius began the process of acrylamide formation. a control group -- an increase similar in magnitude to the high levels observed in non-smoking humans.

ITEM: http://www.mercola.com/2006/jun/29/wendys_is_changing_to_healthy_cooking_oil_or_is_it.htm

Wendy's is Changing to 'Healthy' Cooking Oil, or is It?

Wendy's, the third largest burger chain in the United States, has been revamping its menu to include healthier choices and will soon begin using a non-hydrogenated cooking oil. The oil, slated to begin use in August 2006 in the United States and Canada, is a blend of corn and soy oils with zero grams of trans fat. The move will reduce trans fat in Wendy's French fries and breaded chicken items by 95 percent. Trans fat is a known artery-clogger that raises bad cholesterol while lowering the good kind. Studies have found that just 5 grams of trans fat a day can raise heart disease risk by 25 percent. Using the new oil, the restaurant's chicken sandwiches, nuggets and strips will contain zero grams of trans fat, while a large order of fries will go from 7 grams to 0.5 grams. Wendy's also removed all trans fat from their salad dressings earlier in 2006. Four years ago, McDonald's said they planned to switch to a cooking oil that would reduce the trans fat in their French fries by 50 percent, but they are still in testing mode.

Yahoo News June 8, 2006

Dr. Mercola's Comment:

Most people don't realize that the average American has four orders of fries a week, so this issue is important for many. McDonald's fries now come from huge manufacturing plants that can peel, slice, cook, and freeze 2 million pounds of potatoes a day. The major issue with French fries may not be trans fat, although some fast food chains' fries contain over 30 percent trans fat. What most people fail to understand is that once you heat oil to a high temperature in the presence of oxygen and light you can produce all kinds of different damaged toxic oil molecules that are cyclized, cross-linked, fragmented, bond-shifted, and polymerized. If food turns brown during the cooking process, it has dried out, been overheated, and become toxic. The toxic molecules change the expression of many genes in the direction of inflammation and cancer. When you exceed a safe temperature and turn food brown you not only change the chemistry of the food, you also damage the oil. The nature of chemical reactions is that for every 10-degree Celsius rise in temperature, the rate of chemical reactions (with oxygen, light, metals) at least doubles, and may even triple or quadruple. In addition to the damaged fats, other toxic substances, like acrylamide, are created when you fry potatoes. Acrylamide appears to be a potent carcinogen and was only recently discovered a few years ago.

ITEM (an old post of mine on another newsgroup): ...here is the citation from Keys' Seven Countries (the 1979 book, page 135): "At levels below 200 mg/dl, decreasing cholesterol concentrations tend to be associated with increasing rates of non-coronary death."

...On page B17 of New York's Newsday newspaper (March 1, 2005), AHA spokesperson Dr. Richard Stein states: "What we've learned in the last 15 years is that LDL has to be oxidized in the vessel wall... [in order for plaque to accumulate and become dangerous]."

SOME IMPORTANT STUDIES ABOUT DIET AND HEALTH:

Cancer Res. 2005 Sep 1;65(17):8034-41.

Meat, meat cooking methods and preservation, and risk for colorectal adenoma.

Sinha R, Peters U, Cross AJ, Kulldorff M, Weissfeld JL, Pinsky PF, Rothman N, Hayes RB.

Cooking meat at high temperatures produces heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). Processed meats contain N-nitroso compounds... Greater intake of bacon and sausage was associated with increased colorectal adenoma risk... Our study of screening-detected colorectal adenomas shows that red meat and meat cooked at high temperatures are associated with an increased risk of colorectal adenoma.

Environ Mol Mutagen. 2004;44(1):44-55.

Meat-related mutagens/carcinogens in the etiology of colorectal cancer.

Cross AJ, Sinha R

Diets containing substantial amounts of red or preserved meats may increase the risk of various cancers, including colorectal cancer. This association may be due to a combination of factors such as the content of fat, protein, iron, and/or meat preparation (e.g., cooking or preserving methods). Red meat may be associated with colorectal cancer by contributing to N-nitroso compound (NOC) exposure. Humans can be exposed to NOCs by exogenous routes (from processed meats in particular) and by endogenous routes. Endogenous exposure to NOCs is dose-dependently related to the amount of red meat in the diet. Laboratory results have shown that meats cooked at high temperatures contain other potential mutagens in the form of heterocyclic amines (HCAs) and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).

J Nutr. 2004 Apr;134(4):776-84.

Meat consumption patterns and preparation, genetic variants of metabolic enzymes, and their association with rectal cancer in men and women.

Murtaugh MA, Ma KN, Sweeney C, Caan BJ, Slattery ML.

Meat consumption, particularly of red and processed meat, is one of the most thoroughly studied dietary factors in relation to colon cancer. However, it is not clear whether meat, red meat, heterocyclic amines (HCA), or polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) are associated with the risk for rectal cancer... These data suggest that mutagens such as HCA that form when meat is cooked may be culpable substances in rectal cancer risk, not red meat itself.

J Natl Cancer Inst. 2005 Oct 5;97(19):1458-65.

Meat and fat intake as risk factors for pancreatic cancer: the multiethnic cohort study.

Nothlings U, Wilkens LR, Murphy SP, Hankin JH, Henderson BE, Kolonel LN. CONCLUSION: Red and processed meat intakes were associated with an increased risk of pancreatic cancer. Fat and saturated fat are not likely to contribute to the underlying carcinogenic mechanism... Carcinogenic substances related to meat preparation methods might be responsible for the positive association.

In the "good ole days," many of the cancers were very slow-growing, and the following report may hold a key to the explanation for this:

QUOTE: Edinburgh scientists have identified the way a specific cell protein can trigger the spread of cancer... The protein, MDM2, normally functions to control the activity of a key cancer preventing protein called p53. In some of the body's cells, the biochemical ratio between MDM2 and p53 can become unbalanced causing MDM2 to act as a cancer-promoting agent... In the current study, funded by Cancer Research UK, we have identified protein fragments which can bind to MDM2, inhibiting its activity... UNQUOTE.

Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060724105039.htm

As one ages, such protein fragments accumulate (perhaps due mostly to glycation), and can cause all kinds of problems in this way. Cancers that occur due to this mechanism are not being "fueled" by AA metabolites, and thus usually take much longer to become potentially deadly. Though this report actually shows the mechanism working in the opposite direction (senescence rather than "immortality"), it can work either way. Again, though, there are simple ways to prevent this protein fragment problem, and the first thing to consider is limiting the amount of cellular stressors, as one can do by eating a diet that contains few unsaturated fatty acids and no animals products cooked while exposed to air.

Update (7/26/2008): In a recent report, the following statement is made:

QUOTE: Age may not be rust after all. Specific genetic instructions drive aging in worms, report researchers at the Stanford University School of Medicine. Their discovery contradicts the prevailing theory that aging is a buildup of tissue damage akin to rust, and implies science might eventually halt or even reverse the ravages of age... UNQUOTE.

Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080724123234.htm

What I find amusing about this is that they are basically claiming that "science" may be able to raise the maximum human life expectancy, which seems to be about 120 years, yet so many people are dying before the age of seventy! It would make sense to first get the overwhelming majority of people to live to be around 110, then concern oneself with going beyond that point. If people continue to eat the kinds of diets that are typical in most "advanced, modern" nations, then getting beyond the 120 year limit is only going to benefit a very small percentage of the population, because the rest will diet of cancer, heart disease, etc., way before the age of 120, or 110, or 100, or 90, or 80.