MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The Scientific Debate Forum.Contains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Disclaimer: Read this page first.  
  Links  
  Messages  
  General  
  Nutrition  
  "Mission Statement."  
  Why the "germ theory" is not science.  
  The Underlying Cause of "Disease."  
  The Scientific Method.  
  How dangerous are bacteria and viruses?  
  The Contributions of Hans Selye and others.  
  How direct effects are often ignored, and indirect markers used  
  Understanding "disease" at the molecular level.  
  Understanding disease at the molecular level, part II.  
  What the "common cold" can teach us about illness.  
  The AA connection to today's common "diseases."  
  How easy the key experiments would be to do.  
  The best practical diet and the explanation for it.  
  Fish oil quotes you might want to read  
  Where the "immune system" fits into this view of "disease."  
  How many 'scientific studies' violate the scientific method  
  Why you have to be careful with antioxidants.  
  Why Cancers today are more aggressive than those of the past.  
  The Latest Evidence.  
  Some studies worthy of note.  
  HSWC "in action."  
  How language can impede science.  
  How language impedes science, part II.  
  More on why "germs" don't cause "disease."  
  How a latent virus actually causes "disease."  
  A new report that "says it all."  
  The science "show" must go on?  
  Odds and ends  
  Some thoughts on a book by Robert Gallo.  
  Saturated fatty acids are the solution, not the problem.  
  It's stress, not "germs" that causes disease.  
  Epidemiology: Facts versus "factoids."  
  It's stress, not germs, part II.  
  The latest on "inflammation."  
  Why many nutritional claims make no sense  
  The use of hypotheticals in science.  
  What "viral infections" really do to the body.  
  What determines longevity?  
  An example of an anti-"saturated fat" study that is flawed.  
  A Rough Guide to a Gentle Diet.  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV."  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV." Part II.  
  Okay, so when is this diet going to kill me?  
  Scientific Debate Forum Pictures  
  The EFA Claim Was Refuted Long Ago  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
General : Viruses and arachidonic acid.
Choose another message board
View All Messages
  Prev Message  Next Message       
Reply
 Message 5 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrect  in response to Message 4Sent: 12/31/2007 6:56 AM
This is what really irritates me about "orthodox" folks (and not just "HIV/AIDS" either), and that is that they don't state their position as a formal hypothesis, and so if you point out how it is impossible (what you think it is, in any case), with experimental refutation citations , they just change it and claim that you misunderstood something. This is what might be best phrased "sham science."

As to "HIV/AIDS," the idea (as best I can tell) is that particular cells are destroyed by "HIV" over time, though it's not clear if this destruction takes place gradually (which is silly, since the body has tremendous adaptive abilities) or after a long "latency" period. In the latter case, whatever brings "HIV" out of latency and makes it much more virulent than when the initial "infection" occurred should be considered the actual cause, and a great deal of research money should be spent on this, instead of worrying about "HIV." I'll bet if you ask ten different "AIDS experts" you will get several different explanations.

With regard to "inflammation," I may have seen some mention of it on an "orthodox" site, but nothing comes to mind, so if you could cite one that makes the claim that "HIV" causes a dangerous inflammatory response, I'd be interested to read how they phrase it. In the "early days," some called it "autoimmune deficiency syndrome," and of course that is laughable - why wouldn't you want to be "deficient" in autoimmune reactions, which can be very dangerous. One has to question human reason after doing scholarly research on "HIV/AIDS" and other "diseases," the "cholesterol hypothesis," and "essential fatty acids," and that's "just for starters."

What seems to happen is that in a "civilized" society, people learn from an early age to trust "experts" and many don't have time to do their own research, even if they wanted to, though "cognitive dissonance" seems to prevent many from even considering alternative possibilities. "Experts" learn from their teachers, and often what starts out as a working hypothesis becomes dogma over the course of a few generations of scientists. Moreover, in the biology-related fields, there seems to be a strong anti-scientific quality, in that many will say things like, "oh that's an old study" (even if it is on-point) or "it's all been settled, so there's no reason to waste time on that stuff." They don't seem to realize the importance of doing experiments to verify existing preconceptions, and this is especially egregious with something like "HIV/AIDS," where they have clearly failed, over and over again. It's too bad our society doesn't have a good concept for this phenomenon (i.e., not considering alternatives in the wake of repeated failure) - "group insanity" is one possibility, but then people will think of cults.