MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The Scientific Debate Forum.Contains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Disclaimer: Read this page first.  
  Links  
  Messages  
  General  
  Nutrition  
  "Mission Statement."  
  Why the "germ theory" is not science.  
  The Underlying Cause of "Disease."  
  The Scientific Method.  
  How dangerous are bacteria and viruses?  
  The Contributions of Hans Selye and others.  
  How direct effects are often ignored, and indirect markers used  
  Understanding "disease" at the molecular level.  
  Understanding disease at the molecular level, part II.  
  What the "common cold" can teach us about illness.  
  The AA connection to today's common "diseases."  
  How easy the key experiments would be to do.  
  The best practical diet and the explanation for it.  
  Fish oil quotes you might want to read  
  Where the "immune system" fits into this view of "disease."  
  How many 'scientific studies' violate the scientific method  
  Why you have to be careful with antioxidants.  
  Why Cancers today are more aggressive than those of the past.  
  The Latest Evidence.  
  Some studies worthy of note.  
  HSWC "in action."  
  How language can impede science.  
  How language impedes science, part II.  
  More on why "germs" don't cause "disease."  
  How a latent virus actually causes "disease."  
  A new report that "says it all."  
  The science "show" must go on?  
  Odds and ends  
  Some thoughts on a book by Robert Gallo.  
  Saturated fatty acids are the solution, not the problem.  
  It's stress, not "germs" that causes disease.  
  Epidemiology: Facts versus "factoids."  
  It's stress, not germs, part II.  
  The latest on "inflammation."  
  Why many nutritional claims make no sense  
  The use of hypotheticals in science.  
  What "viral infections" really do to the body.  
  What determines longevity?  
  An example of an anti-"saturated fat" study that is flawed.  
  A Rough Guide to a Gentle Diet.  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV."  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV." Part II.  
  Okay, so when is this diet going to kill me?  
  Scientific Debate Forum Pictures  
  The EFA Claim Was Refuted Long Ago  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
General : my own views on AIDS
Choose another message board
View All Messages
  Prev Message  Next Message       
Reply
 Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrect  in response to Message 8Sent: 6/17/2008 5:36 PM
I was trained as an academic historian, and historians almost always need to take "bits and pieces" of evidence and "tie them together" into a coherent "story." Indeed, this is where so many historians "go wrong," because it's so easy to simply see what you are looking for, rather than allowing the evidence to lead you towards the "truth." If you have seen evidence that is compelling, there is no reason for you to be unable to cite it here. If you say you can't at least cite some it, you are being disingenuous and you will only lose your intellectual credibility.

One important thing I learned in graduate school was to construct the best alternative case, and then see if it "held water." I've looked at all the evidence I could find (online) and there simply is no case to be made for "HIV/AIDS," even a "bad" one. True viral diseases are either going to kill you quickly (not 8, 10 or 20 years later), or else the virus is not the real issue, though it can cause problems and make matters worse (due to conditions in the body that could be avoided). The idea that there is a viral entity, "HIV," that originates outside the body, can "infect" the body (what does this actually mean?), and then do harm over a decade without an otherwise healthy body being able to adapt and deal with it effectively, is beyond science fiction. It is laughable.

I just hope you keep reading, because at one time I too would have dismissed the "dissidents" as a bunch of "quacks," and I'm certainly not proud to admit this fact. When I took the time to look at all the evidence (and having it available online was, of course, crucial) with an open mind, it was obvious a terrible mistake had been made, and the people in charge are clearly "conflicted" and there is little incentive for them to re-evaluate their notions. I'm more than willing to put up my own money (if I'm wrong) to do the kinds of refutation experiments that science is supposed to be based upon, and I've got this site that contains more than enough evidence for a much more likely explanation for "AIDS," but that is all I can do about it, realistically. I don't mind engaging people like yourself, so long as you present your evidence and make a clear, succinct case.

So far, you have yet to do that, so I'm asking you one last time to present your evidence and explain (as if you are talking to people who don't know about any of this) your case. There is no need to do this tomorrow. Don't rush, put together what you feel is a very strong argument, with supporting citations. Alternatively, we can take this one issue at a time. For example, what led you to believe that "HIV" had been isolated and was directly responsible for "AIDS"? Again, citations of actual data is required, or else this will not be a scientific discussion, and therefore, does not belong on this forum. I usually allow people to "go on rants" to some degree, hoping that I can persuade them to "stick to the evidence," but at some point I must "pull the plug on them" in order to keep this forum consistent with its "mission."