MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The Scientific Debate Forum.Contains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Disclaimer: Read this page first.  
  Links  
  Messages  
  General  
  Nutrition  
  "Mission Statement."  
  Why the "germ theory" is not science.  
  The Underlying Cause of "Disease."  
  The Scientific Method.  
  How dangerous are bacteria and viruses?  
  The Contributions of Hans Selye and others.  
  How direct effects are often ignored, and indirect markers used  
  Understanding "disease" at the molecular level.  
  Understanding disease at the molecular level, part II.  
  What the "common cold" can teach us about illness.  
  The AA connection to today's common "diseases."  
  How easy the key experiments would be to do.  
  The best practical diet and the explanation for it.  
  Fish oil quotes you might want to read  
  Where the "immune system" fits into this view of "disease."  
  How many 'scientific studies' violate the scientific method  
  Why you have to be careful with antioxidants.  
  Why Cancers today are more aggressive than those of the past.  
  The Latest Evidence.  
  Some studies worthy of note.  
  HSWC "in action."  
  How language can impede science.  
  How language impedes science, part II.  
  More on why "germs" don't cause "disease."  
  How a latent virus actually causes "disease."  
  A new report that "says it all."  
  The science "show" must go on?  
  Odds and ends  
  Some thoughts on a book by Robert Gallo.  
  Saturated fatty acids are the solution, not the problem.  
  It's stress, not "germs" that causes disease.  
  Epidemiology: Facts versus "factoids."  
  It's stress, not germs, part II.  
  The latest on "inflammation."  
  Why many nutritional claims make no sense  
  The use of hypotheticals in science.  
  What "viral infections" really do to the body.  
  What determines longevity?  
  An example of an anti-"saturated fat" study that is flawed.  
  A Rough Guide to a Gentle Diet.  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV."  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV." Part II.  
  Okay, so when is this diet going to kill me?  
  Scientific Debate Forum Pictures  
  The EFA Claim Was Refuted Long Ago  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
All Message Boards : Caffeine, Aspirin, Paleo Diet
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameViveUtVivas  (Original Message)Sent: 7/23/2007 11:49 PM
Hello ScientificDebateForum!

I stumbled on the website of Ray Peat recently, and I then stumbled upon this group.

I was wondering what the consensus/opinion is here on the caffeine, aspirin, and paleo diet (esp. raw paleo diet) issues (as wholly seperate issues)...

Thanks,

-- Mike --







First  Previous  15-29 of 29  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 15 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 5/23/2008 6:46 PM
Let me know how the HCl testing goes. I'd say it's best to find a good doctor for the thyroid, because you may need medication in the short term at least, but don't assume it's your thyroid. Let the doctor do various tests to rule out anything dangerous. I'd try to get as many tests as possible done, within reason of course. If you do that and want to post the results here, I'd be interested in them, and would give you ideas about what might be going on, if something looks wrong but your doctor tells you "not to worry."

Reply
 Message 16 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGiarc1970Sent: 6/4/2008 6:51 PM
I was just searching for raw paleo diet and came across this thread. There are a couple of new sites I'd like to mention.

http://www.rawpaleo.com/

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/

These are much better than even the .org sites out there. They don't sell anything and they aren't littered with ads.

Reply
 Message 17 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGalkonisSent: 8/19/2008 10:23 PM
Ok, an update here coming up on 3 months taking the HCL supplements:
 
Up until January,as explained before, I was on an all meat/eggs/raw milk etc Primal Diet which made my bowel movements nice and regular, usually around the same time a day, and they were always nice and formed (compared to back a year ago when I was on the SAD when they were always loose and messy and resulted in painful over whiping). Come January/February when I started eating low PUFA in general intead of all raw (my raw diet was very low PUFA as well), adding back in some carbs like potatoes and sprouted bread it made my stools a little looser, required some whiping, though still little compared to the SAD days, and they were less regular.
 
Now, with the use of the HCL my stools are back to regular (though now they are less one larger chunk and now more lots of little "nuggets" or a single piece that is very obviously composed of the "nuggets" with some nugget companions. That isnt an issue, is it?) requiring little to no whiping and are more regular around the same time of day.
 
In addition, I believe I am obtaining more energy from my food. In the earlier days of low PUFA (before HCL) I had good energy but would sometimes have periods where I would get very tired for a little while and would need to take a short (10-15 min) nap and I would be fine. Now I dont ever get tired during the day and am more clear headed in general.
 
My rosacea, though, has not seemed to have gotten any better. I have been very low PUFA for a year now and it only seems to have gotten worse (though It hasnt really changed in the last 5 months or so). I am taking 2 pills (each pill contains 650mg Betain HCL and 162mg Pepsin.  Solaray brand) in the middle of each meal (I tried taking 3 and it usually made my chest burn after a little bit so I reduced it to 2), but over the three months I havent had to reduce the dosage to less than 2 pills (once in awhile my chest will burn slightly with the two pills, but its very rare, once ever several days, and I think thats because I didnt eat much food).
 
What do you think Hans? Should I continue taking 2 pills with each meal until it starts making my chest burn, or increase/decrease the dosage? Take something else? Is Pepsin useful? Do you remember how long you were low PUFA before your rosacea went away? Of course considering "doctors" dont know what causes rosacea, ours could have different points of origin.
Thanks!
 
-Drew

Reply
 Message 18 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 8/20/2008 7:03 PM
Well, I would take the Betaine HCl until feeling the burning or warmth sensation, which means you need to cut back to the lesser amount. I find that eating bran flakes with each meal allows for "normal" looking stools.

My rosacea was really bad, but it was a large sheet of red across my face, rather than red patchiness. I was trying different things at the same time, so I don't know what helped, and of course your diet is not the same as mine and so might be causing it. Some of the things I was doing included the stomach acid supplements, higher protein intake (not likely your problem), applying fresh coconut oil to the face, and take small amounts of gelatin with each meal.

Reply
 Message 19 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGalkonisSent: 8/20/2008 11:05 PM
Can you recommend a place to buy gelatin supplements? That is one thing Ive read about some but have yet to add to my diet. How much is necessary to take or is it dependant on something like protein intake?
Also, did your rosacea slowly recede (if so, how long do you believe it took to be completely gone from the time you noticed it receding?) or did it just one day no longer appear?
-Drew

Reply
 Message 20 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 8/21/2008 7:06 PM
I think it took a few months to get back to looking more or less normal, and it was gradual. You can try iherb.com but a simple internet search for it should work, and also your local supermarket should sell it. I can't say how much you should take, but with me, I can tell if I'm getting enough by my fingernails. If they are hard and "snappy" when I cut them, then I know there's no problem. One member of this site said he thought it gave him headaches, but he was taking large amounts with each meal, if I remember correctly. I only take very small amounts with each meal, probably around a quarter of a gram, or less.

Reply
 Message 21 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGalkonisSent: 8/27/2008 8:58 PM
 
Or do you just buy powdered gelatin that one would normally use to cook with (you said the local supermarket might have it). Do the supermarket brands usually have any other ingrediants that are bad I should watch out for?

Reply
 Message 22 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 8/28/2008 7:19 PM
I'm still working off a gelatin powder I got from a supplement company (it was a full pound of it), and I haven't looked at others, but I think gelatin is gelatin, as long as you look at the list of ingredients and there are no other major ingredients. I think the one I have has some calcium in it, for example.

Reply
 Message 23 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamehelarebeccaSent: 8/30/2008 7:08 PM
You can get the gelatin here http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/...they have gelatin derived from pig and from beef.

Reply
 Message 24 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGalkonisSent: 9/2/2008 8:00 PM
The funny thing is, is I just bought that brand from a local health food store. The Porcine (Type A, I believe) kind. Does it matter from where the Gelatin is derived? Type B is from beef/bone. Ive read about making broth from bones because of the gelatin on Ray Peat's site and such, so does that mean it is preferred to the way they make the porcine gelatin (described on the site you linked me to).
I bought some Knox gelatin (gelatin is the only ingrediant) and have been taking about 1 gram of that with each meal. We will see how that goes after a couple months unless you suggest more or less per meal.

Reply
 Message 25 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 9/3/2008 7:29 PM
I really don't know enough about the process to say. I would only be concerned if there were other ingredients listed that looked "fishy." Since gelatin is a basic cooking ingredient, there should always be some available in the "pure" form, so I wouldn't worry about it. I'd suggest more like 1/3 of a gram with each meal, but if you want to try a gram with each meal for a week or so, I can't imagine how that would do any harm. Also, if you stress your body physically, you may want to take a little extra for a day or two thereafter.

Reply
 Message 26 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGalkonisSent: 9/5/2008 3:52 PM
Sorry to hijack this thread even more, but I didnt know if I should start a new one with this unrelated question. Can you give me links to the old studies done on rats that show we dont need the EFAs that was done back in the 40s or whenever it was, as well as the flawed study done earlier than that that supposedly proved we do need the EFAs? Or tell me where I might find them if they arent on the internet?

Reply
 Message 27 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 9/5/2008 6:53 PM
Start with message number 28 on the "Fish Oil and the Essential Fatty Acid Claim" thread in the nutrition forum, and you'll see passages cited from the old experiments.

Reply
 Message 28 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameGalkonisSent: 11/7/2008 5:30 PM
Further using this thread for my personal questions...
 
What brand of brewers yeast do you use and how much do you take and when?
 
What were your bowel movements lik throughout your whole transformation from SAD to no more AA in your cells? Back when I was on the "primal diet" with all the raw meat and eggs and such my BMs went from being awful and messy (from when I was on SAD) to being nice and formed and regular. Then once I went on just a low PUFA diet and added back in some various carbs and changed my diet around it went back to somewhat looser but not too bad. Then once taking the HCL it formed back up (went through stages of being lots of solid "nuggets" to slowly being more large solid pieces). Now that Im down to taking about 1/3 the HCL I started with and the BMs are a mixutre of the nuggets and larger pieces but I only have to have a BM every 2-3 days. I dont feel constipated or anything and I dont have any problems. Is that regular/ok with the knowledge that its not causing problems?
 
-Drew

Reply
 Message 29 of 29 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 11/7/2008 7:50 PM
I've used Twin Labs nutritional yeast, but I take very small amounts, so that a 16 ounce jar lasts more than a year. As to BMs, for me, it seems to be totally related to the amount of fiber in the diet, so now I eat some bran flakes with each meal. When I was producing no or almost no stomach acid, there were pieces of undigested food in the fecal matter, so I don't think that can really be compared to anything, because it was an extreme situation that most people never encounter.

First  Previous  15-29 of 29  Next  Last 
Return to All Message Boards