MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The Scientific Debate Forum.Contains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Disclaimer: Read this page first.  
  Links  
  Messages  
  General  
  Nutrition  
  "Mission Statement."  
  Why the "germ theory" is not science.  
  The Underlying Cause of "Disease."  
  The Scientific Method.  
  How dangerous are bacteria and viruses?  
  The Contributions of Hans Selye and others.  
  How direct effects are often ignored, and indirect markers used  
  Understanding "disease" at the molecular level.  
  Understanding disease at the molecular level, part II.  
  What the "common cold" can teach us about illness.  
  The AA connection to today's common "diseases."  
  How easy the key experiments would be to do.  
  The best practical diet and the explanation for it.  
  Fish oil quotes you might want to read  
  Where the "immune system" fits into this view of "disease."  
  How many 'scientific studies' violate the scientific method  
  Why you have to be careful with antioxidants.  
  Why Cancers today are more aggressive than those of the past.  
  The Latest Evidence.  
  Some studies worthy of note.  
  HSWC "in action."  
  How language can impede science.  
  How language impedes science, part II.  
  More on why "germs" don't cause "disease."  
  How a latent virus actually causes "disease."  
  A new report that "says it all."  
  The science "show" must go on?  
  Odds and ends  
  Some thoughts on a book by Robert Gallo.  
  Saturated fatty acids are the solution, not the problem.  
  It's stress, not "germs" that causes disease.  
  Epidemiology: Facts versus "factoids."  
  It's stress, not germs, part II.  
  The latest on "inflammation."  
  Why many nutritional claims make no sense  
  The use of hypotheticals in science.  
  What "viral infections" really do to the body.  
  What determines longevity?  
  An example of an anti-"saturated fat" study that is flawed.  
  A Rough Guide to a Gentle Diet.  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV."  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV." Part II.  
  Okay, so when is this diet going to kill me?  
  Scientific Debate Forum Pictures  
  The EFA Claim Was Refuted Long Ago  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
Nutrition : How junky is "junk food?"
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrect  (Original Message)Sent: 2/3/2008 6:46 AM
A friend of mine in the United Kingdom was telling me about a news story in which it was claimed that what we often call "junk food" in the USA (what they call "snacks") is very unhealthy because these items have a "high saturated fat content," or something equivalent. Apparently, such people have not actually looked at the labels of these kinds of food items (unless they are made differently in the UK - out of all the foreign "junk food" I've seen in the USA, very few items are very rich in saturated fatty acids, or SFAs). It's not just that they are incorrect, but that if they were correct, then this kind of food should be recommended, not disparaged. And it irritates me that when I go to the food store to find some "junk food" that is rich in saturated fatty acids but low in unsaturated fatty acids, I have very few choices. Below is a list of very popular "junk food" items made by a company called Little Debbie. I found the nutritional information at www.foodfacts.com, and I can't say for sure if it's all correct, but I do know that it's consistent with what I see when I read labels, that is, most of these items are rich in unsaturated fatty acids and low in SFAs. One of the few Little Debbie items I am willing to eat has 7 grams of fat per serving, 5 of which are SFAs, with no cholesterol (I wanted to try the no fat one, but haven't found it in local stores yet). Should such "reports" be considered "pure propaganda," or is there a better phrase to describe them?

Here is the list, with total fat in grams followed by the SFA content, following the name of each item:

Little Debbie Apple Pie
19 - 5

Little Debbie Apple Streusel Coffee Cake
7 - 1.5

Little Debbie Banana Marshmallow Pies
no fat

Little Debbie Banana Nut Loaves
10 - 1.5

Little Debbie Be My Valentine Cakes
14 - 3

Little Debbie Boston Creme Rolls
12 -3

Little Debbie Brownie Lights
3 - 0

Little Debbie Brownies with English Walnuts
13 - 2.5

Little Debbie Cheese Crackers with Peanut Butter
8 - 1.5

Little Debbie Creme-Filled Strawberry Cupcakes
10 - 2.5

Little Debbie Devil Cremes Filled Cakes
8 - 2

Little Debbie Devil Squares
13 - 3

Little Debbie German Chocolate Cookie Rings with Caramel
7 - 5 (this is what it says on the package I have)

Little Debbie Honey Buns
13 - 3.5

Little Debbie Peanut Butter Crunch Bars
15 -3

Little Debbie Pound Cakes
9 - 2.5

Little Debbie Snack Cakes
15 - 4

Little Debbie Star Crunch Cookies
6 - 1.5

Little Debbie White Fall Party Cakes
15 - 3.5


First  Previous  2-6 of 6  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJamieDH4Sent: 2/3/2008 10:04 PM
Oh yes, this irritates me too. I frequently see articles where they talk about fast food being full of "artery clogging saturated fats", and they had this one item that had 128 grams of fat (yes that is one hundred twenty eight) of which 10 were saturated. The article was talking about the "negative" points of this food item and it read like this "half a day's bad fat [sat. fat], and over 3,000 mg of sodium".

And I thought to myself.... over 90% of that fat is unsaturated. Why is the saturated fat being targeted?

And then, as I described in another post, there were these commercials for "Lay's" potato chips that were now fried in sunflower oil, and thus had 50% less saturated fat (1 gram, down from 2). And I thought to myself "even if saturated fat is the evil, wouldn't this small amount be statistically insignificant?".

Having originally lived in england until I was 18 I must say I don't know what that news item your friend was talking about is referring to. European food items are almost always higher in saturated fat, mostly due to the use of butter instead of margarines and canola oils. When I was in Malta back last January I realise that only places catering to americans and british sold margarine.

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 3 of 6 in Discussion 
Sent: 2/4/2008 12:03 AM
This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.

Reply
 Message 4 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 2/4/2008 12:05 AM
An important point is that if you look at what people were eating a couple of hundred years ago, it was much higher in saturated fatty acids. Most "junk food" items are much richer in UFAs and lower in SFAs than meat and dairy, which are consumed in large amounts by Americans and UK citizens, and so targeting "snack" or "junk" food just shows that you are lacking the most basic of research skills. Here are more "junk food" items (if there is a third number, it is the trans fatty acid content - also note that the Keebler information came from their site, whereas the rest came from www.foodfacts.com):

Keebler:
Sandies Pecan Shortbread
5 - 1.5 - 2

Vienna Fingers
7 - 2.5 - 2.5

Country Style Oatmeal cookies
6 - 1.5 - 2.5

Original Chips Deluxe cookies
16 - 4 - 4.5

From www.foodfacts.com:

Biscos Sugar Wafers with Creme Filling
6 - 1.5

Hostess Apple Fruit Pie
22 - 9

Hostess Twinkies Golden Sponge Cake
5 - 1.5

Hostess Orange Flavored Cup Cakes With Cream Filling
7 - 2.5

Drake's Cherry Fruit Pie
18 - 5

Drake's Chocolate Frosted Creme Filled Yodels
16 - 6

Drake's Coffee Cakes
6 - 2

Drake's Sunny Doodles
8 - 2

Drake's Yankee Doodles
9 - 0

Drake's Swiss Rolls
15 - 4

Entenmann's Enten-mini's Carrot Cakes
7 - 1.5

Mrs. Freshley's Swiss Rolls
11 - 2.5

Oscar Mayer Lunchables - Fun Snacks - Fudge Brownie
9 - 3

Archway Bed & Breakfast Crispy Pecan Shortbread Cookies
10 - 2.5

Archway Homestyle Cashew Nougat Holiday Cookies
11 - 2.5

Burger Kings Nestle Toll House Chocolate Chip Cookies
16 - 5

Chips Ahoy! Chewy Chocolate Chip Cookies
8 - 2.5

Wal-mart Family Size Orange Pineapple Creme Sandwich Cookie
6 - 1

Wal-Mart Fudge Marshmallow Cookies
4.5 - 3.5 (I've eaten these recently)

Wal-Mart Iced Oatmeal Cookies
5 - 1.1

Kraft Handi-Snacks Teddy Grahams Bearwiches Honey Graham Cookies &
Creme
7 - 1

Lorna Doone Shortbread Cookies
7 - 1

Nabisco Double Delight Oreo Mint 'n Creme Chocolate Sandwich Cookies
7 - 1.5

Nabisco Twirls Marshmallow Fudge Cookies
6 - 1

Pepperidge Farm Entertaining Collection Distinctive Cookies
7 - 2.5

Pepperidge Farm Oatmeal Cranberry Soft Baked Cookies
4 - 1

Pop-Tarts Frosted Cookies & Creme Toaster Pastries
5 - 1.5

ShopRite Chocolate Cremes Sandwich Cookies
7 - 1.5

ShopRite Peanut Butter Cookies
7 - 1.5

Cookies & Snickers Crunchy Cookie Bars
11 - 3

Stella D'oro Lady Stella Cookies
4 - 1.5

Thus, if one wanted to avoid "saturated fat" in typical "snack" food, it would be very easy. On the other hand, if you want an item that is rich in SFAs but low in PUFAs, your choices are very limited.

Reply
 Message 5 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 2/6/2008 10:44 PM
More bad or misleading advice:

Report title: "Dietary Evidence For Prevention And Treatment Of Cardiovascular Disease."

QUOTE: ...The review identifies effective "dietary considerations" including a diet that:

* Is low is saturated fatty acids, trans fatty acids and dietary cholesterol;
* Is "ample" in total dietary fiber with emphasis on soluble fiber... UNQUOTE.

Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080201085625.htm

I'll note that soluble fiber is anti-nutritive. I've been eating small amounts of bran flakes with each meal, but they are rich in insoluble fiber, which does not have this quality, for example:

QUOTE: Whilst fruits and vegetables are an essential part of our dietary intake, the role of fiber in the prevention of colorectal diseases remains controversial. The main feature of a high-fiber diet is its poor digestibility. Soluble fiber like pectins, guar and ispaghula produce viscous solutions in the gastrointestinal tract delaying small bowel absorption and transit. Insoluble fiber, on the other hand, pass largely unaltered through the gut...

Whilst it is not the intention of the authors to totally discourage fiber in the diet and the use of fiber supplements, there does not seem to be much use for fiber in colorectal diseases. We, however, want to emphasize that what we have all been made to believe about fiber needs a second look. We often choose to believe a lie, as a lie repeated often enough by enough people becomes accepted as the truth. We urge clinicians to keep an open mind. While there are some benefits of a diet high in natural fiber, one must know the exact indications before recommending such a diet. Myths about fiber must be debunked and truth installed... UNQUOTE.

Source: World J Gastroenterol 2007 August 21; 13(31): 4161-4167.

On the internet: http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/13/4161.asp


Reply
 Message 6 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 5/2/2008 6:42 PM
QUOTE: Diets high in fast food can be highly toxic to the liver and other internal organs, but that damage can be reversed, says one of the country’s leading experts on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, who offers four steps to undo the effects of a 'super-size me' diet... UNQUOTE.

But why? The molecular evidence is clear - toxic molecules are involved, and none of them come from saturated fatty acids, nor should "sugar" be a problem (if the correct diet is eaten), but what is the conclusion of the "expert" here?

QUOTE: “There’s strong evidence now that a fast-food type of diet �?high in fat and sugar, the kind of diet many Americans subsist on �?can cause significant damage to your liver and have extremely serious consequences for your health,�?says Brent Tetri, M.D., professor of internal medicine at the Saint Louis University Liver Center and one of the country’s leading experts on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease... UNQUOTE.

And some "advice" for when you go the "fast food restaurant:"

QUOTE: Try the burger without mayo and cheese, and avoid fries and sugary soft drinks... UNQUOTE.

I'm not suggesting that cola drinks are good, but the burger, friend in PUFA-rich oils, are certainly not "good." The cheese should be okay (I don't know how it may have been "processed" so I can only assume it's the same kind of cheese I eat), but it should not be heated to high temperatures. "Mayo" is usually UFA-rich and should be avoided, though you can make a substitute with vinegar, mashed boiled eggs, and yogurt, for example.

Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080430204519.htm

First  Previous  2-6 of 6  Next  Last 
Return to Nutrition