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Nutrition : Be careful not to use good advice incorrectly.
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 Message 1 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrect  (Original Message)Sent: 1/12/2007 6:25 AM
On another newsgroup, someone described his diet, and I pointed out that when a person gets all kinds of "alternative" advice, there appears to be a tendency to pick and choose what "sounds good," rather than following one line of advice for a while to see if it is successful.  Here is how he described his diet:
 
QUOTE:
 
8am - Lemon juice, cayanne pepper, and 1 tsp cetic sauce drink
8am - an apple, pinneaple or an orange
 
9am - four soft boild eggs mixed with 1 Tsp of raw butter, 1Tsp of good Olive oiland raw apple cider vinegar with some chives and tomato.
 
        - small piece of organic bacon or ham
 
        - Good amount of brie chees
 
        - big bowl of homemade yogurt and keifer mix with frozen organic wild blueberries (this is after all my medication, this is when I take my vitaminc and mineral supplements)
 
10 am - drink korean medicine made with deer elder, ginnseng and other various roots. (made specially for good digestion)
 
11 am - snack on home made bisquit with lots of butter
 
Drink lots of detox teas all sorts, no caffein though so no green or white
 
2 pm - eat left over from dinner. Today, i am having chicken brown rice / black beans porridge with some fermented vegies and green onion.
 
4 ish - eat a handful of soaked nuts and dried fruit
 
7 pm - tonight we are having ox tail soup with beef brisket. Probably with a light green leaf lettuce salad
 
8 pm - drink my another dose of korean medicine with deer elder and etc...
 
eat some more cheese
 
drink gelatin drink
 
eat a small piece of fruit
 
take my super antioxidents supplements like alph lipoin acid, super echninecea, NAC, CQ10. Go to bed.
 
I am on the medication,, the treatment doesn't end till this wed, but i think i am going to go off by today.
 
I drink 3 viatmin c drinks with my supplements and i drink tea all day long.  UNQUOTE.
 
 
And my response was:
 
I appreciate the honesty. You are a good example of the problem I've mentioned here for a long time, and that is if a person gets advice from someone "outside the mainstream" (though I am only interested in the experimental data and reasonable interpretations of it), he/she usually gets advice from several of these people. Then the person goes ahead and creates a combination that sounds good to him/her, though it may be very dangerous. I'm not saying that your diet is dangerous, but that is has contradictory elements in it. It is also quite biochemically active, relative to my diet, for example. Remember, that when you "detox," you can remove some very reactive substances. Also, things touted as "antioxidants" can have pro-oxidant qualities under certain conditions, and that bombarding your body with massive amounts of antioxidants is probably a bad idea under just about all circumstances.


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 Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 1/12/2007 9:15 PM
Interestingly, not long after posting the message above, I went to a food company's web site, and saw the following:

QUOTE: Research indicates that low fat diets may aggravate the effect of insulin resistance on blood lipids. Therefore, for individuals who are insulin resistant, a diet low in saturated fat (less than 10 percent of total calories) and more moderate in total fat content (30 percent - 35 percent of total calories) may be beneficial. This recommendation is different from the low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet that many health organizations recommend to help prevent heart disease. Specifically, they recommend decreasing fat intake to less than 30 percent of calories. Some groups recommend even lower levels of dietary fat. UNQUOTE.

The point being made here is that even the "mainstream experts" cannot agree, and in fact offer contradictory advice. My argument is that there is more than enough evidence to develop a healthy and practical diet (and one that is tasty and satisfying as well). Of course, in order to do this, one needs to abandon language that is inaccurate, such as called lard, which is only about 40% saturated fatty acids, a "saturated fat." Otherwise, studies can be manipulated in all kinds of ways. Moreover, especially when lipids are involved, oxidation always needs to be taken into account. For example, one can't say that "olive oil" does this or that, because high quality olive oil possesses powerful antioxidants, whereas low quality olive oil may possess very little. And then there is the issue of how the food is cooked, ifi it is cooked. A recent study found that the "benefits" of tea are negated if milk is put in it, for instance.

Source of the quoted passage: http://www.hersheys.com/nutrition/insulin.asp

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 Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 3/6/2007 7:04 AM
People often ask me about taking all kinds of "antioxidant" supplements, and I suggest avoiding oxidizing substances while eating some dark chocolate, berries, prunes, along with other common fruit (apples, pears, bananas).  I tell them to consider drinking some coffee or white tea (without milk) as well.  A recent report suggests that it's not the antioxidant properties of these foods that makes them good to eat in reasonable amounts.  What I would add to this report is that these foods may act as antioxidants for food rich in polyunsaturated fatty acids, if they are eaten at the same time.  Of course, I recommend avoiding foods rich in unsaturated fatty acids as well as foods containing more than very small amounts of cholesterol cooked while exposed to air.  If you don't, taking a lot of antioxidant supplements may not do much good.
 
QUOTE:  Flavonoids, a group of compounds found in fruits and vegetables that had been thought to be nutritionally important for their antioxidant activity, actually have little or no value in that role, according to an analysis by scientists in the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University.

However, these same compounds may indeed benefit human health, but for reasons that are quite different -- the body sees them as foreign compounds, researchers say, and through different mechanisms, they could play a role in preventing cancer or heart disease.

Based on this new view of how flavonoids work, a relatively modest intake of them -- the amount you might find in a healthy diet with five to nine servings of fruits and vegetables -- is sufficient. Large doses taken via dietary supplements might do no additional good; an apple a day may still be the best bet.

A research survey, and updated analysis of how flavonoids work and function in the human body, were recently published in Free Radical Biology and Medicine, a professional journal.

"What we now know is that flavonoids are highly metabolized, which alters their chemical structure and diminishes their ability to function as an antioxidant," said Balz Frei, professor and director of the Linus Pauling Institute. "The body sees them as foreign compounds and modifies them for rapid excretion in the urine and bile."

Flavonoids are polyphenolic compounds with some common characteristics that are widely found in fruits and vegetables and often give them their color -- they make lemons yellow and certain apples red. They are also found in some other foods, such as coffee, tea, wine, beer and chocolate, and studies in recent years had indicated that they had strong antioxidant activity -- and because of that, they might be important to biological function and health.

"If you measure the activity of flavonoids in a test tube, they are indeed strong antioxidants," Frei said. "Based on laboratory tests of their ability to scavenge free radicals, it appears they have 3-5 times more antioxidant capacity than vitamins C or E. But with flavonoids in particular, what goes on in a test tube is not what's happening in the human body."

Research has now proven that flavonoids are poorly absorbed by the body, usually less than five percent, and most of what does get absorbed into the blood stream is rapidly metabolized in the intestines and liver and excreted from the body. By contrast, vitamin C is absorbed 100 percent by the body up to a certain level. And vitamin C accumulates in cells where it is 1,000 to 3,000 times more active as an antioxidant than flavonoids.

The large increase in total antioxidant capacity of blood observed after the consumption of flavonoid-rich foods is not caused by the flavonoids themselves, Frei said, but most likely is the result of increased uric acid levels.

But just because flavonoids have been found to be ineffectual as antioxidants in the human body does not mean they are without value, Frei said. They appear to strongly influence cell signaling pathways and gene expression, with relevance to both cancer and heart disease.

"We can now follow the activity of flavonoids in the body, and one thing that is clear is that the body sees them as foreign compounds and is trying to get rid of them," Frei said. "But this process of gearing up to get rid of unwanted compounds is inducing so-called Phase II enzymes that also help eliminate mutagens and carcinogens, and therefore may be of value in cancer prevention.

"Flavonoids could also induce mechanisms that help kill cancer cells and inhibit tumor invasion," Frei added.

It also appears that flavonoids increase the activation of existing nitric oxide synthase, which has the effect of keeping blood vessels healthy and relaxed, preventing inflammation, and lowering blood pressure -- all key goals in prevention of heart disease.

Both of these protective mechanisms could be long-lasting compared to antioxidants, which are more readily used up during their free radical scavenging activity and require constant replenishment through diet, scientists say.

However, Frei said, it's also true that such mechanisms require only relatively small amounts of flavonoids to trigger them -- conceptually, it's a little like a vaccine in which only a very small amount of an offending substance is required to trigger a much larger metabolic response. Because of this, there would be no benefit -- and possibly some risk -- to taking dietary supplements that might inject large amounts of substances the body essentially sees as undesirable foreign compounds.

Numerous studies in the United States and Europe have documented a relationship between adequate dietary intake of flavonoid-rich foods, mostly fruits and vegetables, and protection against heart disease, cancer and neurodegenerative disease, Frei said.

 UNQUOTE.

Source:  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070305140834.htm

 


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 Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 3/6/2007 7:16 AM
Here is an abstract of a study that is interesting in light of the report in the post above. 
 
QUOTE:  Our recent studies documented that red ginseng extract (RGE, isolates from steamed and dried Panax ginseng, C.A. Meyer) can inhibit Helicobacter pylori-induced mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) signaling with repressing either nuclear factor (NF)-kappaB-DNA binding activity or releases of IL-8 and COX-2 in gastric epithelial cells (Dig Dis Sci 50:1218-1227, 2005). We extended the experiment to prove whether RGE influences 5-lipoxygenase (5-LOX) pathway, thereby suppressing the biosynthesis of 5(S)-HETE. The 5-LOX enzyme activities were measured by thin layer chromatography using (14)C-labeled arachidonic acid (AA) and quantified by reverse phase-high performance liquid chromatography in human gastric adenocarcinoma (AGS) cells cocultured with H pylori (ATCC 43504 strain) with or without pretreatment of RGE. Western blotting analyses for MAPK signaling and 5-LOX, reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction for interleukin-8, and electrophoretic mobility shift assay for NF-kappaB-DNA binding were done, respectively. H pylori infection increased exclusively 5-LOX enzyme activity and RGE inhibited H pylori-stimulated 5-LOX activity, resulting in suppression of 5(S)-HETE generations from AA. RGE inactivated c-jun phosphorylation and repressed redox-sensitive transcriptional activation, led to reduced expression of IL-8 and 5-LOX mRNA in gastric mucosal cells, of which action was very similar to known LOX inhibitor, 200 mumol of geraniin. RGE could be phytoceutical against H pylori infection-associated gastric inflammation through its LOX-inhibiting actions, inhibitory 5-LOX enzyme activity, and attenuating its expression.  UNQUOTE.
 
Source:  Dig Dis Sci. 2007 Feb 27; [Epub ahead of print].
 
 

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 Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 3/8/2007 1:35 AM
You may have heard of claims that eating a "calorie restricted" diet might increase longevity considerably. A recent report notes: "Caloric Restriction in non-obese people translates into less oxidative damage in muscle cells, according to a new study by Anthony Civitarese, Eric Ravussin, and colleagues (Pennington Biomedical Research Center). As oxidative damage has been linked to aging, this could explain how limiting calorie intake without malnutrition extends life span..."

As I've mentioned to many people, oxidative stress cannot be avoided, only minimized, but oxygen needs to react in order to generate dangerous molecules, called "reactive oxygen species," some of which are "free radicals." Oxygen will not react with saturated fatty acids, but unsaturated fatty acids are susceptible to not only partaking of reactions that generate these dangerous molecules, but can enhance these reactions. This is why I try to keep my consumption of unsaturated fatty acids very low, especially polyunsaturated ones.

Source of the quoted passage: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070305202936.htm

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 Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 3/8/2007 10:50 PM
This falls under the category of "how not to be influenced by bad advice:"

QUOTE: ...certain types of common foods and alcoholic beverages such as wine, cheese, yogurt and bread contain trace amounts of carcinogens... The researchers are studying the effects of treatment with vinyl carbamate in mice. This substance is derived from ethyl carbamate (urethane), a by-product of fermentation found in alcoholic beverages, and fermented foods like cheese, yogurt and bread. It is also present naturally in tobacco.

Now labeled as a potential human carcinogen by both the World Health Organization and the International Agency for Research on Cancer... UNQUOTE.

The problem, of course, is that "carcinogens" are in almost every food item, and they note that:

QUOTE: ...urethane was given inadvertently to millions of patients in Japan, between 1950 and 1975, in analgesic and sedative drugs... UNQUOTE.

Thus, if it was so carcinogenic, where are all the extra cancer deaths? Instead, I am more concerned with biochemical reactions that will cause damage to cells. A substance like this is probably only going to be a concern if you have a lot of PUFAs in your diet, and perhaps a lot of iron as well. If you were to act on this kind of report in a rigorous way, what would you be able to eat?

Source of the quoted passages: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070307152917.htm

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 Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 3/21/2007 10:34 PM
I just read a report about new advice an "expert" thinks the general public should be given, when deciding on what food to buy:

QUOTE: According to Dr. Rollins, concentrate on three things—sodium, fat and total calories. Then read through the ingredients and make sure things like salt, sugar and corn syrup aren’t at the top. UNQUOTE.

What I do, in contrast, is to look for the unsaturated and "trans" fat content, and if there is more than about 25% unsaturated fat in it, I will only buy it if I eat no more than tiny amounts at a time (for taste), or if it is a dairy or egg product (which I don't cook). Also, if there is more than a small amount of cholesterol in it, I won't eat it unless it is uncooked (though boiled eggs appear to be fine), unless, again, I will only be eating tiny amounts at one time. I also won't eat anything with carrageenan in it. Since I don't eat meat (only gelatin), the cooking of meat is not an issue for me, but does appear to be a major health hazard because of the way most people cook it.

Source of the quoted passage: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070320082945.htm

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 Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 3/21/2007 10:38 PM
Some other points: A diet rich in salt appears to be fine, so long as you add it yourself, to taste, though even in this case you need to be sure you get enough potassium, or else high blood pressure can be an issue.

Also, I eat three meals a day, and I only drink water or tea (without milk or sugar) in between meals. In this way, I eat until I feel full, but have no problem with putting on weight. Eating sugar-rich foods or drinks between meals appears to be a bad idea, though eating plenty of sugar during the meal, so long as there is at least about 20 grams of protein in the meal, appears fine. I also eat plenty of saturated fatty acids with each meal.

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 Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 4/6/2007 6:19 AM
One major calorie restriction researcher just made some interesting points:
 
QUOTE: ...Professor Spindler and his colleagues are examining the gene expression patterns which are induced by low calorie diets, and looking for drugs which mimic these changes. They are searching for drugs which will have these beneficial effects and slow ageing, even when they are given late in life. One drug, normally used to treat diabetic patients, seems to produce many of the beneficial effects of a low calorie diet. However, it is important to be sure that healthy people will benefit from the drug. A very low level of toxicity could interfere with the beneficial effects of such a drug, if it is taken for a lifetime...
 
... it is known that vegetarians and fish eaters live longer than red meat eaters, and that, generally, the more fruit and vegetables in the diet, the better your health and longer your lifespan...  UNQUOTE.
 
Some "experts" simply don't take the long-term effects of a substance into account, and many studies only examine short-term effects (if any), and often just look for "markers" that are thought to be "beneficial" or detrimental.  The other thing of note is how he talks about vegetarian health and longevity.  If you read my essay, "Why many nutritional claims make no sense," you will see that many "vegetarian" recipes are richer in saturated fatty acids that pork and beef recipes.
 

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 Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknametaka00381Sent: 4/6/2007 8:35 AM
The calorie restriction thing can turn quite dangerous particularly in obese subjects:

Eur J Med Res. 1995 Nov 17;1(2):65-71.

Low fat diet decreases alpha-tocopherol levels, and stimulates LDL oxidation and eicosanoid biosynthesis in man.
Adam O, Lemmen C, Kless T, Adam P, Denzlinger C, Hailer S.
Medizinische Poliklinik und Rheumaeinheit der LMU, Munich, Germany.

The effects of a conventional 1000 kcal diet, and of a further restriction of dietary fat by a fat substitute, on the concentrations of vitamin A and E in plasma and LDL, the formation of lipid peroxides and eicosanoids were investigated in 10 obese volunteers. In vitro copper catalyzed oxidation of conjugated dienes, lipid peroxides and TBARS activity, measured in LDL samples after week 2 (supplementation with 140 mg/d alpha-tocopherol and 5000 IU retinol-acetat for two weeks), week 6 (conventional diet) and week 10 (fat substitute), increased with vitamin E depletion statistically significant after week 10 compared to the values after week 2. Concomitantly, PGE2 and LTB4, determined by RIA, increased to 344% and 166%, respectively, compared to the values after week 2. PGM, determined as tetranorprostanedioic acid by GC-MS, increased to 120%. Stimulation of lipid peroxidation and eicosanoid formation was more pronounced in persons with initially low (19 - 26 micromol/l plasma) than in those with high (37 - 70 pmol/l plasma) concentrations of alpha-tocopherol. We conclude that fat restricted diets can lead to an unwanted stimulation of lipid peroxidation and eicosanoid formation, which may be relevant in states of disease, e. g. arteriosclerosis or rheumatoid arthritis.
PMID: 9420181


It's easy to get into the EFAD state for a slim person with fast metabolism but it could be quite a challenge for even mildly obese person (like myself). Body stores lots of PUFAs in the adipose tissues and when they get released bad things happen. Moreover the released PUFAs inhibit thyroid what further slows metabolism and the person faces strong resistance to loosing weight. Further restricting calories could lead to nutritional deficiencies. Consuming coconut oil with ample antioxidants/carotenoids and helping the body in burning AA by exercise/sauna/massage is probably the only way to figh it ...

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