MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The Scientific Debate Forum.Contains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Disclaimer: Read this page first.  
  Links  
  Messages  
  General  
  Nutrition  
  "Mission Statement."  
  Why the "germ theory" is not science.  
  The Underlying Cause of "Disease."  
  The Scientific Method.  
  How dangerous are bacteria and viruses?  
  The Contributions of Hans Selye and others.  
  How direct effects are often ignored, and indirect markers used  
  Understanding "disease" at the molecular level.  
  Understanding disease at the molecular level, part II.  
  What the "common cold" can teach us about illness.  
  The AA connection to today's common "diseases."  
  How easy the key experiments would be to do.  
  The best practical diet and the explanation for it.  
  Fish oil quotes you might want to read  
  Where the "immune system" fits into this view of "disease."  
  How many 'scientific studies' violate the scientific method  
  Why you have to be careful with antioxidants.  
  Why Cancers today are more aggressive than those of the past.  
  The Latest Evidence.  
  Some studies worthy of note.  
  HSWC "in action."  
  How language can impede science.  
  How language impedes science, part II.  
  More on why "germs" don't cause "disease."  
  How a latent virus actually causes "disease."  
  A new report that "says it all."  
  The science "show" must go on?  
  Odds and ends  
  Some thoughts on a book by Robert Gallo.  
  Saturated fatty acids are the solution, not the problem.  
  It's stress, not "germs" that causes disease.  
  Epidemiology: Facts versus "factoids."  
  It's stress, not germs, part II.  
  The latest on "inflammation."  
  Why many nutritional claims make no sense  
  The use of hypotheticals in science.  
  What "viral infections" really do to the body.  
  What determines longevity?  
  An example of an anti-"saturated fat" study that is flawed.  
  A Rough Guide to a Gentle Diet.  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV."  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV." Part II.  
  Okay, so when is this diet going to kill me?  
  Scientific Debate Forum Pictures  
  The EFA Claim Was Refuted Long Ago  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
Nutrition : A Primer on “Trans Fat�?and “Hydrogenated Fat.�?/FONT>
Choose another message board
View All Messages
  Prev Message  Next Message       
Reply
 Message 20 of 33 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrect  in response to Message 19Sent: 10/7/2006 7:46 PM
And here is a new post, in which I try to simply things to a very basic level ("typo" errors corrected):

Most of you probably don't realize this, but it appears as if no on
point experiment has been conducted. Instead, all the assertions being
proclaimed by various "experts" are based upon "markers." Many of you
are probably unfamiliar with the scientific terminology, and so I will
try to make it easy to understand. One problem is that there is no
"trans fat" hypothesis, and therefore I can only respond to the claims
that are prevelant today in the USA.

1. Canola oil is now being called one of if not the healthiest "all
purpose" dietary oils you can consume.


2. Partially hydrogenated oil, even if it is canola oil, however, would be considered very
unhealthy by the "experts," because it contains what they call "trans
fat," though this is ill-defined (many foods contain trace amounts, for
example, and so at least it would be necessary to state a threshold
amount that is dangerous).


3. A simple experiment could be done to determine what the scientific
reality actually is: one group of animals typically used in these kinds
of experiments would be given diet of 25% canola oil - of the kind that
most Americans are consuming now, while another group would be fed 25%
partially hydrogenated canola oil product - a margarine produced by a
major food company, and purchased from a major supermarket.


4. If the animals fed the margarine live as long or longer, then there
would be direct evidence that demonstrates that this claim about "trans
fat" needs reformulation, at the very least (and is likely to be
nonsense), though it is impossible to discuss it in a truly scientific
context until those making the claim put forth formal hypotheses,
without which there is no way to know what should be tested, because it
is unclear what is being said to be causative, and at what threshold
amount this occurs.


5. Since "saturated fat" is considered "bad" as well, a third group of
animals could be fed fresh coconut oil. This group would likely live
the longest and have the best health. The reason is that the causative agent, as
the molecular-level evidence demonstrates, is free radical mediated
damage and dysfunction, not whether an unsaturated fatty acid possesses
a double bond that has a "kink" in it.