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~Sales Careers : Pharm Sales Thread
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From: Edenh  (Original Message)Sent: 4/27/2004 1:28 AM
I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - p fer - 4/25/2004 - 8:44:20 AM
Anytime I tell people I'm thinking of getting into pharm sales, they say the same thing, that if your not a young attractive female, you pretty much have no chance. Is there any truth to this? Is the industry dominated by young attractive females? I'd like to hear from people in the industry about this one...
 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - refugee8179 - 4/25/2004 - 8:52:46 AM
I am in in the industry and I think it's 50/50. It's hard to know what hiring managers are looking for, exactly. Actually, I tend to see more men than women, but it just might be my territory.

I'd worry less about that, and really really do your homework about this industry. The outside perception vs. being on the inside is very different. I'm not saying better or worse, just different. Make some rep contacts that you trust and ask them a lot of questions. Do your homework on the company.

If you do your homework and work hard to get the job, your gender/looks will make no difference...just present yourself well.

 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - i_am_fed_up - 4/25/2004 - 9:07:09 AM
I'd say it is true. Believe it or not, but I was screened out because I wasn't outgoing in high school! Never mind that I have credentials out the wazoo, great work experience, and many successes. They kept asking me about what I did 15 years ago in high school. Was I a captain on a team? Did I run for class president? Made no sense to me. The industry and job has become so lucrative that they can be successful no matter what stupid screening process they use. Hiring managers probably associate their success, in part, to the screening process. In fact, demographics and barriers to entry is why they are successful. You'll never change the mind of the dipstick screener looking for a certain type of candidate.
 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - onieman - 4/25/2004 - 11:22:06 AM
Anytime you have the hiring manger doing the interviewing and decision-making, you're going to get a wide variety of standards. However, it's a tired old stereotype about having to be young, blonde, and female. More and more, I see the opposite. I see more and more people coming into the industry who are experienced in life and not, necessarily, beautiful.

Anyone with credentials "out the wazoo" who feels they were screened out due to high school either lacks the aforementioned credentials or there was something else that caused the hiring manager to pass. If, indeed, the decision was based on lack of high school activities inspite of tons of good stuff since then, the manager is a fool. But that is 1 person out of about 10,000 DMs out there. Let's not paint the whole industry by the acts of one.

Back to the origional post, I know of just as many managers who see being young, beautiful and blonde as a hinderance as I do those who see it as a plus. Most managers I know don't care. We're interested in the person who is going to move the most market share and who is going to fit in well with the other team members who are already in place. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the existing group, we're often looking for a very specific personality type or a specific set of skills that will compliment the group. Also under consideration can be the personality types of the most important physicians and offices where we have to carefully consider whether or not we feel you are going to be effective in those offices. For example, I have a territory that has a very large clinic and the doctors and staff are very idiosyncratic. Very few reps have ready access to the doctors and, of the ones who do, they have certain personality traits in common. When filling this territory, it must be a very specific type of person otherwise they will not succeed.

So, to sum up, there is no 1 type of person who is successful. I will go so far as to state this is the same in all areas of sales. The trick is finding the organization that values what you're bringing to the table. You'll find them eventually.

Good luck.

 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - i_am_fed_up - 4/25/2004 - 2:36:10 PM
Nope - Wrong - It was my credentials that got me in the door to be interviewed. Which, you should know, just getting an interview in pharma sales is hard to do. I was pushed aside because I didn't have a track record of being outgoing in high school.

Credentials:
1. #1 rep out of 130 in mutual fund sales.
2. MBA from a top-ten midwest grad school.
3. Excellent grades.
4. International business experience.
5. Rave reviews from previous managers.
6. Excellent work history.
7. Finance trader. Responsible for millions of dollars in transactions every day. I mention this because they seemed to be hung up on the fact that I didn't have a history of handling "cash on hand" transactions. ???!!!???

The interviewer, a dumb a** from HR, kept grilling and grilling and grilling me on my high school history. Absolutely absurd. I'll wager you 10 - 1 that a blonde high school cheerleader who was the prom queen got the job. That is the trend in lucrative sales jobs, pharma sales jobs in particular.

And don't give me any garbage about not carrying myself well in an interview. I am excellent at interviewing. The pharma sales industry is stuck on having "Ken & Barbie" types. I'm not ugly, but, then again, I don't look like an Abercrombie & Fitch male model, either.

 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - i_am_fed_up - 4/25/2004 - 2:47:54 PM
Another thing. My grades in college and grad school were excellent. My grades in high school were not so great. I was bored out of my mind, and just didn't care that much for high school studies. In college and grad school, I excelled. It was very troubling to them that my grades in high school - fifteen years ago - were not up to snuff.

I'm really not sure what to make of this kind of screening process. Bear in mind, this was not a one shot thing. This is the third instance with a big pharma where my lack of achievement in high school has worked against me.

Everything after high school is obviously A+ in effort and results. It makes no sense to me that what I was doing as a sixteen, seventeen, and eighteen-year-old should have any bearing on my professional career. It's not like I was robbing banks - I just wasn't doing all my homework and didn't participate in after school clubs. Okay, that made it impossible for me to go to an ivy league school, but why that should knock me out of the running for a sales job fifteen years later should make no sense to any rational thinking person.

 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - DandyAndie - 4/25/2004 - 2:48:23 PM
I see a little of every walk of life in pharma sales - blonde girls, handsome men, usually younger. Why? Because someone is more likely to buy from a rep who is good looking rather than just experienced. I have never seen an overweight rep in pharma sales. I have never seen and older man or woman in that sector either.
 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - onieman - 4/25/2004 - 2:53:55 PM
I think we've been down this road before.

Maybe you took that chip on your shoulder in with you. Or, maybe your aire of superiority. Either way, why would you be bothering with something that you feel is beneath you? Have you applied for The Apprentice-2? You sound just like Trump's type!

I'm sorry you encountered an HR nut. But it's unfair to characterize an entire industry based on one negative encounter. Unlike you, I AM in the industry. I have been for many, many years. I encounter infinitely more reps than you do. I see very few Barbies and Kens anymore. It was a phase that is passing.

And, for your information, you'd be shocked at how many beautiful people I've encountered with advanced degrees and qualifications coming out your "wazoo". I don't discriminate just because someone is attractive any more than I give special consideration because of it.

Maybe the HR person just didn't like you for some reason. Maybe they were looking for someone more entry level due to budgetary constraints. For whatever reason, you weren't deemed the right fit. Get over it.

 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - onieman - 4/25/2004 - 2:58:19 PM
Dandie,

You need to look more closely. There are older, overweight pharma reps everywhere. They just don't stand out as much as the cuties do. Do you notice the average or below average looking person in a dark suit sitting in a busy waiting room? No. Do you notice the extremely attractive man or woman? Of course. It's human nature.

Frankly, most reps are very health-concience and you rarely see obese reps. We are in the healthcare industry after all, and deal on a daily basis with the results of people who abuse their bodies. But there are plenty who are carrying a few extra pounds.

 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - i_am_fed_up - 4/25/2004 - 5:36:01 PM
Because I so badly wanted a pharma sales job, I networked and mixed it up with a lot of pharma sales reps.

Every person I know who has been hired into pharma sales has three things in common.

1. Young.
2. Attractive.
3. Female.

 
Re: I always hear this-Pharm sales.. - DandyAndie - 4/25/2004 - 9:33:03 PM
onieman - that only reason I said that is because I work in advertising and I seem to always see young, "pretty" pharma sales people when I go into a pharmacy to talk to the parmacist about buying ads.

I've seen men, all good looking, women, all good looking, and all slim, attractive, healthy looking people. But, I think having a healthy, attractive sales person is a given for a pharma company as they are selling drugs for health (or at least that is the gist I get from them) and know people are looking at who is selling as the front man for the company.

Kinda goes into the clothing issue. Would you hire a heavy woman who wore a purple moo moo to an interview for a receptionist position? Probably not, because you know the the first person a client sees when walking into you office is that woman, as she is your front line. You want someone who represents the company in a highly favorable manor.

I'm not saying it's right, or we should try for a global change, but it's the way it is.

I'm in sales and I know I have to keep my hair nice, clothing nice, face free from those awful blemishes that seem to pop up all the time, as well as know the product and sell it well.

 
Hi Dandy! - NumberOneSculler - 4/26/2004 - 6:27:51 AM
For what it's worth, in my experience good looks are a matter of health, confidence and attitude as much as anything. I'm one of those people who actually causes car accidents just walking down the street (which is not necessarily a good thing for job interviews, espcially in conservative industries) but more often than not attractiveness is a matter of how the person feels about themselves, their lives, etc.

A very genetical beautiful person can actually look "ugly" if they have a negative attitude, have a chip on their shoulder, or are otherwise unhappy or insecure.

Comparatively, to offer a real life example, one of my past bosses and favorite people - at first glance - looks like Jabba the Hut. He's hopelessly obese and very, very tall so looks somewhat monstrous, wears bifocals, and has the ugliest face you can ever imagine seeing, complete with quadruple chin. This man is seriously, over-the-top hideously ugly.

However, he dresses very well especially given his size, is always very clean, is extremely intelligent, and has enormous compassion for all people, and is highly ethical/honest. He also has a wonderful, infectious positive attitude - probably rooted in the fact that he's been happily married for 20+ years, and has four beautiful children and a wonderful home life. He exudes this aura of genuine happiness and pure joy for life and mission that infects everything and everyone around him. Within 20 minutes of first meeting him and talking to him one tends to kinda fall in love. I cannot imagine a "handsome" man - regardless of how physically gifted - with lesser personal qualities beating him out in ANY interview or business situation.

And, this proves itself out in his career, as the reason he's not my boss anymore is that he left his EVP position to become president and ceo of a larger organization in another city. Also, over the years, four of his direct reports have gone on to win Pulitzers, and others have similar notable accomplishments...



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