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| | | From: Lirena_ (Original Message) | Sent: 3/7/2008 4:03 PM |
Please judge my female Blueberry, she is also from first blue litter in Russia
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| | | From: Lirena_ | Sent: 3/9/2008 2:46 PM |
couldn't understand about open angles and straght shoulders... i can't see her shoulders are streght... Itryed to do the same looking for pic of Grey and what I have, i can't to see big diffrence
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When I superimpose Blueberry's image onto Dan, I see their angles are very similar. The main difference in in neck strength. Blueberry has less width and length to her neck.I see this even in the newest photos you have provided. When I look at a dog, the first thing I see is an overall impression. With Dan I saw and felt a balanced dog. With Blueberry I saw and felt imbalance. Looking closer it is her neck that throws off her overall balance. Please do not take my comments as ultimate truth. I am just giving you what I see and I thank you for sharing your dogs with me. It is good practice for me.  |
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Whoops! I said Dan in the post above and I meant Grey!  |
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| | | From: Lirena_ | Sent: 3/9/2008 7:27 PM |
| Oh, no, I didn't want to say you are wrong, just the same, try to study! )))) |
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| | | From: Lirena_ | Sent: 3/9/2008 7:34 PM |
It's really interesting for us too! Well, may I ask you what is wrong with her neck? And also I would like to know more about open angles? As I can see Berry, she doesn't have stight shoulder... Can you place some pics plese how looks straight shoulder please, as you show it with neck? It could be better to understand...
Thank you! |
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| | | From: Lirena_ | Sent: 3/9/2008 9:36 PM |
If we'll take this pics and will try to use it as example, Berry is OK for my opinion... Her scapula = humerus, ungles is fine, maybe a bit long back legs?
For my opinion she is a bit heavy for bitch. She is big enough, 55cm and her weight is 27 kg! She could be more elegant. When I go out with her and Thaima, people thinks that Blueberry is male... :-)
olddoglvr, you told you wouldn't breed her... where is such great real problem in her structure for stop breeding her?
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Hi Lirena, For me, I would not breed Blueberry because I do not feel she is enough of an improvement for the breed. She is not bad, but she is typical. When I saw how great a dog Grey is, I thought this is a very great improvement for the breed, especially the blue color, as they tend to have (in my opinion) the weakest structural challenges. But I have to agree with Sunnystone TRD who said " This is one of those time where I want to cut the dog in two! Front of the dog, to the shoulders are not to my preference, but beyond the shoulders I really like. I respectfully disagree about not using her in the breeding program. Her strengths can be used and when combined with a sire from a proven line of improving the weaknesses seen here, could provide a strong typey animal for long term use in creating a distinct line. However, for long term sucess coming from breeding a bitch like this, you would have to be very aware for several generations about the weaknesses seen here and plan breedings toward eliminating them. This type of planning and vision is the difference between a breeder who desires to produce a long term quality line and one who soley targets to create an animal designed to win in the show ring in one generation." I know that you want great success with Blueberry, but one must also have a clear view of your dogs strengths and weaknesses, as your breeding program results depend on it. I also understand the breed is new in Russia, and in fact, it is new in the rest of the world outside of Thailand. The breed phenotype is not set, you and others are setting it now with your decisions. So if I were you, I would not use Blueberry. Keep in mind that all I have are photographs. It is you who have her in real life and the decision is much fuller for you. |
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From Pat Hastings Book "Tricks of the Trade"; The appearance of a short neck can also be caused by a ewe neck. One of the ways a puppy or dog compensates for this structural issue is to tuck its head into its body, thus giving the appearance of a short neck. A ewe neck can be caused by two very different problems. The first and most common is improper ligamentation, which allows the neck to bend both directions. Tucking the head in alleviates the stress of supporting the weight of the skull on the weakened neck. Another way dogs compensate for weak ligamentation is to pull the head and neck back an up, thus creating a straighter column of support for the skull. The second cause of a ewe neck is dropped vertebrae at the withers. This causes the base of the neck to jut forward, putting the neck in front of the body and the front legs too far under the body. This creates the illusion of front-heaviness, as if the dog could easily fall forward onto its nose., No matter what the cause, if you can gently tip a dog's head back past vertical, it has a ewe neck.  |
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Here is an interesting website on the Pharaoh Hound Neck/Topline/Body. I think it pertains to this discussion. |
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I like Blueberry´s back but not her front...
She has a nice head with good, well-set ears.
But her neck is very thick and short and on many photos it looks like an ewe neck. This makes it look less good where neck and back meets, as like You´ve pasted one half of a dog onto another half of another dog and they don´t really fit together...
Her shoulders are much too straight.
She has a very nice underline.
Her paws are excellent.
She seems to have a quite long tail, very good cause blue often have too short tails.
Kind regards/Susanne |
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| | | From: Lirena_ | Sent: 3/10/2008 5:05 PM |
Well, I respect your opinion, guys, but let me say my opinion also.
I studyed carefully this question, because it wasn't said like "I prefere other type" or something like this. Ewe neck - is really serious defect. I have this dog and I can say she doesn't have ewe neck. She up her hear when she trys to be good girl, but in general, when she is mooving, she caries her head fine. I used anatomy of TRD for understanding how high should be neck and I found out - Berry has normal neck! Even in the higest posision she has difference only 3-5 degrees! Nothing! In her normal posision angle even more then necessary.
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| | | From: Lirena_ | Sent: 3/10/2008 5:14 PM |
At any time thanks a lot for judging, it open my eyes to many things I never was looking about... Thanks a lot and you can see Blueberry in World Dog Show in Sweden!
See you there!!! Thank you!!! ))) |
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If you can gently tip a dog's head back past vertical, it has a ewe neck. Lirena, Its not the angle of the neck as you have illustrated by drawing the lines on top of her neck, but the way the neck sits upon, or rests upon the shoulders. It is not a smooth transition, as it is with Grey. |
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I like her much more than her litter brother Grey ! Her correct croup and tail set attract me more than her fault, it was really hard to find such beautiful rear assembly in Blue, she will be a good bitch for blue improvement. Althought, she had a straight front shoulder, but the angle and rear angle still matching and balance to each other, I'm not consider that as a fault. The only thing I will improve on her is the neck placement............. |
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