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Ants to the rescueContains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
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General : We deserve better  
     
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 Message 1 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>  (Original Message)Sent: 1/14/2009 4:44 PM
The Rangers Supporters Trust today launched their campaign entitled "We deserve better" at the custodians of Rangers Football Club.
 
The trust has set out area of concern to the support as detailed below, and various RST spokesmen will be appearing on various media outlets tonight, including Setanta Sports and Real Radio, looking to put pressure on the club to explain the following :-

- Only 2 league titles in 8 seasons

- Only 2 cups won in last 3 full seasons

- Losing to the worst European opponents faced since Valletta in 1983

- A state of the art training facility, yet no advancements in technique or set plays

- No discernible strategic vision, either on or off the pitch

- No long-term transfer or team-building plan

- Only two youth players (McGregor and Hutton) of genuine quality produced in the last decade

- Selling first team players to cover losses previously made on fringe players

- Consistent failure to move fringe players on for reasonable transfer fees

- Lucrative pay-offs for failed players - Failure to profit from our most lucrative ever season

- Failure to engage with or interact with the support in any meaningful way

- Treating Rangers fans with disdain as customers instead of valuing and working with them as supporters and part of the Rangers family

- Inability to either attract inward investment, or to convince fans to invest in any meaningful way

- Reduction in the status of our club from leading football force in the land, to almost social pariah status through a failure to challenge those seeking to link Rangers with sectarianism

- A PR operation which only acts when senior club figures are personally criticised and all too often fails to defend the Rangers support

- Fan morale lower than at any time in the past 24 years



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 Message 3 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/14/2009 7:18 PM
I've listened to both RC Radio and Real Radio tonight, and they had David Edgar from the RST and Ross Blair from the Rangers Supporters Assembly (funded by Rangers FC).
 
Edgar was clear and concise and very definite in his points, as he always is, and his honesty was a joy to listen to.
 
Blair was a shambles as he tried to defend the club and refused to either back or not back the campaign. He refused to confirm or deny that the RSA's stance is that the Rangers fans deserve better. To be brutally frank, he made a fool of himself.
 
Unfortunately Murray, Bain and co are behind Blair and will think he did a good job defending the club.

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 Message 4 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/14/2009 7:27 PM
His name is Ross Blyth actually, my apologies.
 
For those interested and who missed the Real Radio interview, here it is :-
 

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 Message 5 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAlltimsgotoheaven1Sent: 1/14/2009 8:03 PM
i think very little of the above could argued in for the case for Smith/McCoist and i have trouble in thinking who is really to blame apart from Dave Murray. PLG and Smith/McCoist have signed alot of players that aren't Rangers quality, Rangers coach was signed when he was Celtic's youth coach keeping in mind, he brought great talents in Shaun Maloney, Aiden McGeady, John Kennedy etc. I think McLeish had a very good team which he built, PLG signed alot of crap players, Watty and McCoist haven't been convincing in summer signings though but still signed alot of quality in terms of Broadfoot, Thompson, Davies etc.

All in can see in lack of investment within the club, bad financial management and shher lack of involement from Board of Directors and higher ups

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 Message 6 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTheGingerOracleSent: 1/14/2009 8:56 PM
I listened to Blyth whilst sitting in the car outside Asda watching the snow. It was cringeworthy. Really, really bad. I actually felt sorry for him during the interview cause you could tell that he actually agreed with everything the RST had said but couldn't or wasn't allowed to say so.

Reply
 Message 7 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTheGingerOracleSent: 1/14/2009 9:12 PM
On the subject of Murray, I'm struggling to understand the mindset of anyone who continues to defend him. Every point raised by the RST is spot on and most reflect badly on Murray rather than Smith or any of his predecesors in the management chair. If a business is run to the point of financial oblivion then it is nearly always regarded as the fault of the directors. Murray has already done this once, apologised profusely and publically, got the backing of the fans, established an austere financial policy, downsized repeatedly over the the last decade but has still guided the club back towards the same financial problems he supposedly helped them escape. Why should we have any faith in him being able to manage the business side of the club when the history of the last decade indicates that he is unable to do so.
 
The thing is, I know we are in a credit crisis but why is it that it seems that only Rangers are struggling? C*ltic, the only club you could make a direct comparison to financially (comparable size, working in the same market with the same restrictions) seem to be doing fine. Could it be (and whisper now) because they are a well run organisation with a modern, forward thinking, financially and politically astute business team? If so then isn't it complete incompetance that Rangers do not have a similarly accomplished team? All these questions lead us back to Murray

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 Message 8 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/14/2009 10:08 PM
Blyth is being torn to shreds on FF tonight. I really couldn't believe what I was hearing, and I don't think Ewan Cameron could either, to be honest.

Reply
 Message 9 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/15/2009 11:14 AM
The theme of the RST's campaign is significant and one which seems to have gone over the head of most of the media coverage of it. The RST are wise enough to know that ousting David Murray now is simply not an option. Nobody is going to buy him out in the current financial climate, unless some daft Russian or somebody like that comes along out of the blue, if you'll pardon the pun.
 
But the theme of "we deserve better" campaign is that, while Murray has to remain at the helm for now, he simply has to 'up' his game. The same applies to every single facet of Rangers FC at the moment, and David Edgar was right when he included the fans in that as well last night.
 
Nobody is saying that we have a divine right to be the best team in the country every season. But when you look back a decade to season 1998-99, when we were winning the league championship under Advocaat at The Piggery for our 10th league title in 11 years (and winning it the following season as well), Rangers were simply streets ahead of Celtic in terms of how the club was run, and also with the players on the park.
 
Since then, not only have we let Celtic catch us up, but they have moved away from us administratively and financially and are in danger of disappearing over the horizon. Had it not been for the two last-minute league championship wins in 2003 and 2005, Celtic would have been going for another 9-in-a-row this season.
 
Our chairman needs to do better to encourage financial investment in the club.
 
Our chief executive needs to do better in terms of defending the club's image against the people whose aim it is to damage our reputation as often as they can.
 
Our manager needs to do better in terms of the players he brings to the club and his use of them, and also in terms of using the extremely talented young players we have at the club (u-19 league and cup double winners for the last two season, yet we see none of these players in the first team - instead he gives a contract extension to 35-year-old Christian Dailly and then doesn't use him).
 
Our captain needs to do better in terms of his performances on the pitch and his motivation of the players around him in games against lesser opposition.
 
Our players need to do better in terms of self-motivation in certain games.
 
Our fans need to do better in terms of backing the team at home games, as Ibrox is like a library during the average league game against the likes of Falkirk etc.
 
There are so many other facets of Rangers Football Club where the people concerned need to do better.
 
Yet the Rangers fans continue to be loyal. When I look back to the film of the games back in the Advocaat era, there were many games where you would see big empty spaces behind the Broomloan Road end goal, even for SPL games and occasionally for European games as well.
 
You simply don't see that nowadays, despite the team on the pitch being a shadow of the squad we had a decade ago and despite the ticket prices having almost doubled in that time. The fans are still filling Ibrox for every home game and filling the away end throughout the country. I'm not usually one for promoting a boycott, but as long as Ibrox is full every other Saturday then Murray and Bain will continue to think that the product on the pitch is acceptable to their "customers".
 
It was only when the fans drifted away in the mid 80s that something dramatic was done at Ibrox, and Lawrence Malborough brought in David Holmes who in turn brought in Graeme Souness who in turn brought in David Murray to buy out Malborough. Similarly at Celtic at the end of the Kelly/Whyte dynasty, it took the fans not turning up and Celtic going to the brink of extinction before Fergus McCann came in to turn the ship around.
 
I agree with TGO, it's going to take dramatic and complete regime change at Ibrox before we start to go in the right direction, but in the current financial crisis that's not going to happen in the next 12 months at least. Until then everybody involved in Rangers FC has to up their game.
 
The fans continue to back the current regime by paying through the turnstiles and filling the stadium. Ibrox will be full on Saturday again for the visit of Falkirk.
 
We deserve better.

Reply
 Message 10 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/15/2009 12:48 PM
A delusional and frankly insulting response from Murray today :-
 
 
The response to that from David Edgar, posted on FF this morning, is as follows :-
 
1. The Chairman has failed to react substantitively to any of the points raised, and instead chosen to ignore legitimate concerns of paying customers.

2. The Chairman has said the fans groups 'offer no solutions'. We have offered practical advice at every meeting we have had over a number of years. That the Chairman and Chief executive chose to ignore most of that advice is down to them, but it is simply misleading to claim they were never offered it.

3. He says people who are members of fans groups and populate websites are 'not exactly Captains of Industry'. That's a rather sneering put-down, by definition, of everybody who reads this post.

4. He says the Trust think they 'know more about tactics than Walter Smith.' We don't. Not only have we never said that, we have said several times that the football people at the club know far more about football than we do. You'd have to ask the Chairman why he chose to make such a patently untrue assertion.

5. He accuses the trust of 'mischief-making'. If he'd like to point out anything in the 17 issues raised which is incorrect, we'll happily rescind it.

6. He says the Trust is an extremely small band of people. 5,000 members isn't a full Ibrox, but I'd counter it's a fair representation of support - certainly a big enough customer base to avoid insulting and ignoring.

7. He says 'real fans' know he's doing a good job. Define a 'real' fan to us.

8. His overall assertion is that the RST is intent on de-stabilising the team. We'd simply like to point out that it isn't us sanctioning the transfer of our top goalscorer halfway through the season.

Thank you for your time.

We deserve better.

Reply
 Message 11 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCollegeRoscoSent: 1/15/2009 1:29 PM
I consider myself a real fan and while I appreciate the many good times that Mr Murray has been responsible for I feel he took his eye off the ball for too long and allowed people like Bain far too much power in the financial area and we all saw where that led. Bain also got involved in assessing players which has always puzzled me. Since Advocaat left we had some moderate success under McCleish but I think the signs were there even then that things were not well with the club.
 
The Le Guen experiment was a disaster although at the start it looked quite promising as we began to play some decent football, especially in the European games. Some of the signings though were a bit bizarre to say the least and the failure to instill some discipline within the club was probably the biggest failure of Le Guen's regime. As a manager you have to manage and be ruthless when players overstep the mark no matter how good they are and on reflection when Le Guen went probably Ferguson should have gone also. Mr Murray should have been more assertive on this occasion.
 
Walter was brought in to steady the ship, which he did admirably but although last season was amazing for the results, if not the style of football played, I feel Walter's failure to play players in their proper position and  the lack of taking a chance with some of the younger players is one of the reasons why we are struggling at times. Look at the failure to give the young Spaniard here on loan a decent run in the team especailly when we are struggling for left-sided midfielders. The money wasted on signings this season has contributed to our poor form as very few have shown anything.
 
Everyone moans about Murray Park but it is really what goes on there. The standard of coaching must be pretty poor because on matchdays we very rarely see any variation on things like free-kicks and corners and our throw-ins have never improved in over fifty years.
 
The other night we looked like a team who didn't know what we were supposed to be doing and some of the passing, tackling and positioning was shocking. What's the answer? Get rid of the deadwood and give youth a chance would be a good place to start but we know it won't happen.

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 Message 12 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAlltimsgotoheaven1Sent: 1/15/2009 1:53 PM
Does he not know the majority don't support him at the moment? His administration is in question and he questions the RST who are small in comparison and do not run the club but are looking alot more out for the fans. It's pathetic really.
He gives no explanation to the fans for the past few years of his own decline in ability and overall integrity of the club.

Reply
 Message 13 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/15/2009 2:01 PM
Amazing how quickly Murray has jumped to his own defence with a statement, eh ?
 
If only he (or Bain) had been so quick to react when the Rangers support is attacked from all angles, maybe then we would have a wee bit more respect for them.

Reply
 Message 14 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/15/2009 3:02 PM
You have hit the nail firmly on the head there, Alltims. (Not like you. )
 
Murray was basically offered an olive branch last night by the RST's stance. He had the opportunity to respond positively to it today and say "Yes, let's work together".
 
Instead he has looked down his nose at the support yet again and given the "well could you do any better ?" response.
 
We deserve better.

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 Message 15 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAlltimsgotoheaven1Sent: 1/15/2009 6:58 PM
Thought alot better of him to be honest, you'd think all the PR he's done in his 20 years that he'd be able to give a better response but thinking about what can he say? he's let ye down and he's not big enough to admit it

Reply
 Message 16 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/15/2009 8:45 PM
David Murray doesn't know the meaning of PR. He thinks it stands for "personal reputation".

Reply
 Message 17 of 17 in Discussion 
From: Nessie �?/A>Sent: 1/15/2009 9:01 PM
Bombay TV captures the last team management meeting at Murray Park.
 
 

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