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Rapture? : Pt. 1, The Rapture Question
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 Message 1 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 5/2/2007 3:37 AM
From: joie Sent: 8/17/2002 10:48 PM
The above was part two of bob's posts;  this one is part one; (sorry, but I did not find this one to begin with)

 
From: bob  (Original Message) Sent: 11/11/2001 12:34 AM

THE RAPTURE LIE

by J. Preston Eby

Dear Friends,

Flesh will sometimes want to avoid controversy. That's me.  It is not comfortable when making folks angry and they often turn against you.  Most of us have been taught this pre-trib rapture doctrine, and for many years I stuck by it soundly.  The passing years have caused this belief to crumble for me....and not easily.  Again, most still want to believe it and will fight to defend their views.  I understand....maybe.  Most of the time I will remain silent on such issues, but this article absolutely thrilled me.  Those bits and pieces of the puzzle we receive, in time, are revealed through another and we discover them.  That too is thrilling.  As I read the words of this, I laughed, I cried (no surprise to a few here (grin).  But still, it is a great joy that another has "seen" what have been our thoughts, and we are not the only "nuts" on the tree!  There are many more.

Three parts.....I will send.  This one is "history"......part 2, more interesting......part 3 might just knock your socks off, and make you shout.  Smiling at ya.......bob

Many an average person on the street may never have heard of it until watching religious programs on television or listening to conversations by "born-again" Christians. "The Rapture"? What's that? But large numbers of Church goers in various denominations hear all about it - often. They live in constant expectation of it. "Christ may come tonight and snatch the Church away to heaven," the preacher assures in revival meetings, in Sunday Church services and on television. "The trumpet may sound before this meeting is over, or before you wake up in the morning," the evangelist warns. When that happens the cemeteries burst open and the dead saints arise, and those still living go zooming off into the sky to meet the Lord. Such a snatching away or "rapture" of the Church, it is claimed, will be the next great prophetic event. And it may take place at any moment. Millions of believers wonder with great concern, "When will it happen? Will it be in my! lifetime? Will I be ready? Who of my loved ones will miss it and have to go through the Great Tribulation?"

It is generally supposed to happen this way: Strife, crime, violence and evil doing in the world will become increasingly worse. Civilization will plunge headlong toward a time of intense trouble. Suddenly, just before the world arrives at a period of calamity called "the tribulation," we are told, Jesus will return invisibly and snatch away - "rapture" - all born-again Christians and take them to heaven, or away up in the clouds somewhere, away from the world turmoil, for seven years. It will be a sudden, yet secret event. No one will see it happen. Only the effects - empty cars, empty houses, empty beds, workers missing from their jobs - will be apparent. Some suggest what the newspaper headlines will be like the day after: "Millions Mysteriously Vanish!" "Graves Found Open and Empty!" "Massive Traffic Snarles Due to Missing Drivers!" "Planes Crash, Trains Wreck As Pilots and Engineers Disappear!" "All Children Have Disappeared!" Pictures have been drawn by artists, and distributed by the multiplied thousands, of Jesus standing on a stratocumulus cloud a few thousand feet in the air, while Christians are being lifted out of a city below. Business of all kinds will be disrupted, while tumult, confusion, misery and terror will reign. The airports, trains, bus lines, and the great industrial plants over the world will be hushed, as so many of the head men, the pilots, engineers, managers, foremen, workers and others will be missing. Families will be separated, one taken and the other left; wives will bewail the sudden disappearance of their husbands, husbands will bemoan the loss of their wives. Parents will search in vain with terror-stricken faces for their children.

They go on to describe how all the people who are left on earth will have to go through seven years of terrible trouble and punishment. During this time the great Antichrist will make his appearance and display his power, the apocalyptic judgments the unmeasured wrath of God - foretold in the book of Revelation will be unleased in dreadful fury upon the inhabitants of the world, and there will be a time of unequalled tribulation. Then, at the end of this period, according to the teaching, Christ will return from heaven once again in a great universal public display, bringing all His saints with Him. The reason for this is, they say, because God is far too good to allow His people to go through such tribulation. The implication is that they are far too weak to survive in the face of such demonic power. So they will be called away to attend the "Marriage Supper in the Sky", receive their "rewards" for their labors here, and have a glorious seven years of feasting, singing and celebration - while their unsaved loved ones, their dear friends and neighbors who had not been born again, and the untaught millions of heathen are suffering indescribable agonies on earth. "Good enough for them!" seems to be the general attitude, "they should have listened and gotten prepared, like me. "

 
 cont.  


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 Message 2 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 5/2/2007 3:38 AM
From: joie Sent: 8/17/2002 10:51 PM
I found this very, very interesting:  hope you do too.  JO

 

THE ORIGIN OF THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE

That's the way the "rapture" is usually presented. But is that how Jesus announced He would return? Will He come back physically in two phases - one, secret and unexpected, "for" His saints, to rapture them away; and a second, publicly "with" His saints? Is this "rapture" really the "hope" of the Church as the preachers are wont to proclaim? Let me give you the history of how this theory got started.

It wasn't until the early or mid 1800's that there was any significant group of believers around the world that looked for a "rapture" of the Church prior to a seven-year tribulation period. It may come as a shock to some who read these lines, but it is a fact nonetheless, that the "rapture" teaching was NOT taught by the early Church, it was NOT taught by the Church of the first centuries, it was NOT taught by the Reformers, IT WAS NOT TAUGHT BY ANYONE (except a couple Roman Catholic theologians) UNTIL ABOUT THE YEAR 1830! At the time of the Reformation the early Protestants widely held and Were convinced that the Pope was the supreme individual embodiment and personification of the spirit of antichrist, and the Roman Church the Harlot System of Rev. 17. This understanding was responsible for bringing millions of believers out of the Roman Catholic religious system. It therefore became expedient for certain Romish theologians to turn the attention of the people away from the Papacy, and this they endeavored to a counter-interpretation to that held by the Protestants. This new scheme of prophetic interpretation became known as FUTURISM.

Rather than viewing the drama of the book of Revelation spiritually and historically, they would consign it all to a brief period of time at the end of the age. It was a Jesuit priest named Ribera who, in the days of the Reformation, first taught that all the events in the book of Revelation were to take place literally during the three and a half years reign of the Antichrist away down at the end of the age. Thus Ribera laid the foundation of a system of prophetic interpretation of which the Secret Rapture has now become an integral part.

Later, Emmanuel Lacunza, also a Jesuit priest, built on Ribera's teachings, and spent much of his life writing a book titled "The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty." Lacunza, however, wrote under the assumed name of "Rabbi Ben Ezra," supposedly a learned Jew who had accepted Christ as his Saviour. With Jesuit cunning he thus conspired to get his book a hearing in the Protestant world - they would not even permit it in their homes coming from a Jesuit pen - but as the earnest work of a "converted Jew" they would consume it with avid interest! Within the pages of this elaborate forgery Lacunza taught the novel notion that Jesus returns not once, but twice, and at the "first stage" of His return He "raptures" His Church so they can escape the reign of the "future Antichrist." His book was first published in Spanish in the year 1812 and soon found its way onto the shelves of the library of the Archbishop of Canterbury in London, England.

Now enter the name of Edward Irving. Born in Scotland in 1792, Irving became one of the most eloquent preachers of his time. In 1828 his open-air meetings in Scotland drew crowds of 10,000 people. His Church in London seated one thousand people and was packed week after week with a congregation drawn from the most brilliant and influencial circles of society. There were some among them who by prophetic declaration announced that the Lord was coming soon, and this idea became prominent in their prophetic utterances and teachings. Out of those prophetic declarations some began to study the scriptures in the light of a physical, literal coming of the Lord. Up until that time the coming of the Lord was understood as a coming of the Lord TO His people, and IN His saints, and there was no sense of His fleshly coming. Irving discovered Lacunza's book and was deeply shaken by it, in fact, fell in love with it, translated it into English, and it was published in London in 1827. And at this very time Irving heard what he believed to be a Voice from heaven commanding him to preach the Secret Rapture of the Saints. Then Irving began to hold Bible Conferences throughout Scotland, emphasizing the coming of Jesus to rapture His Church.

About this same time there began the emergence of a new movement which came to be known as the "Plymouth Brethren." The Brethren movement had its beginning in Dublin in 1825 when a small group of earnest men, dissatisfied with the spiritually lethargic condition that prevailed in the Protestant Church in Ireland, met for prayer and fellowship. Soon others joined the fellowship and associated groups sprang up in various places. Though the movement had its beginning at Dublin, it was Plymouth, England that became the center of their vast literature outreach, thus the name, "Plymouth Brethren" became attached. Although there was interest from the start in prophetic subjects, the center of interest was on the body of Christ as an organism and the spiritual unity in Christ of all believers - in reaction to the deadness and formalism of the organized church systems and the ecclesiastical Heirarchy. A man by the name of John Nelson Darby was the leading spirit among the Plymouth Brethren from 1830 onward. Darby was from a prosperous Irish family, was educated as a lawyer, took high honors at Dublin University, then turned aside, to his father's chagrin, to become a minister.

Thus Irving and Darby were contemporaries, though associated with different spiritual movements. Another series of meetings were in progress at this time, a group of seeking Christians were meeting in the castle of Lady Powerscourt for the study of Bible prophecy. Many clergymen attended, and quite a few who were Irvingites. The Irvingites came to the meetings obsessed with the ideas of the "Secret Rapture" and the future Antichrist, imbibed from the Jesuit Lacunza's book. J.N. Darby and the other Brethren leaders were invited to these meetings and became participators in them. It was there that he was introduced to the Jesuit teaching of the Secret Rapture and the futurist interpretation of prophecy, as well as the famous book by Rabbi Ben-Ezra, or, actually, Jesuit priest Emmanuel Lacunza! Darby was himself a prolific writer and from that time a constant stream of propaganda came from his pen. His writings on biblical subjects number over 30 volumes of 600 pages each. Darby developed and organized "futurism" into a system of prophetic teaching called "dispensationalism." Darby' s biographers refer to him as "the father of dispensationalism." And the crown jewel in the kingdom of dispensationalism is, of course, the so-called SECRET RAPTURE!

The Secret Rapture teaching was introduced into the United States and Canada in the 1860's and 1870's, though there is some indication that it may have been taught as early as the 1840's. Darby himself visited the United States six times. The "new" teaching was spreading. A Congregationalist preacher by the name of C. I. Scofield came under the influence of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. Scofield became a strong promoter of the teaching that had been promulgated by Darby, whom he considered "the most profound Bible student of modern times." He incorporated this teaching into his SCOFIELD REFERENCE BIBLE. The Scofield Reference Bible was destined to have a tremendous impact upon the beliefs of many, when, three million copies were published in the first 50 years! Through this Bible Scofield shrewdly carried the teaching of the Secret Rapture into the very heart of Evangelicalism. Some ignorant souls look on the "notes" in this Bible as the Word of God itself!  I do not doubt for one instant that many who read these lines have been influenced somewhere in their spiritual lives by the "footnotes" in the Scofield Bible!

There is one final link in the chain of the development and spread of the rapture theory that should be mentioned in passing. I would draw your attention again to the SOURCE, the ORIGIN of the rapture doctrine and the chain of contact by which it has been brought down to us today. It began as a Roman Catholic invention! The Jesuit priest Ribera's writings influenced the Jesuit priest Lacunza, Lacunza influenced Irving, Irving influenced Darby, Darby influenced Scofield, Scofield and Darby influenced D. L. Moody, and Moody influenced the early PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT. How? you ask. The Assemblies of God is today by far the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world.

 When the Pentecostal movement began at the turn of the century and the Assemblies of God held their first General Council in 1914 in Hot Springs, Arkansas they were a small movement and didn't have their own Publishing House. They needed Sunday School and study materials for their Churches - so where do you suppose they got it? They bought it from Moody Press and had their own cover stitched on it! So what do you think the Assemblies of God people believed? They believed what Moody Bible Institute taught! This had its impact on Pentecostal theology, because in the early years there were practically NO PREMILLENIALISTS IN THE PENTECOSTAL MOVEMENT! Most of the ministers in those early days came from Presbyterian, Methodist, or other historic denominations - men who, being baptized in the Holy Spirit and leaving their denominations, joined themselves to the Assemblies of God or one of the other emerging Pentecostal denominations. That is how the Pentecostal movement became influenced and saturated with the "Secret Rapture" doctrine - by a direct chain right back to the Roman Catholic Church! And now, my friend - you know the REST OF THE STORY!


 
 

Reply
 Message 3 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 5/2/2007 3:48 AM
I spent a lot of time looking in our back pages, several different times, to find these messages on the history of this 'rapture' lie.
 
I finally found it tonight.  I moved it to the Rapture Board in three different threads, so it will not have the messages lost should discussion come and send some of them backwards.
 
I want all of this original message to stay on the front pages of these threads.
 
So if discussion arises, enough to move one of them back,  I will move it back up and the answers back.
 
I do hope many people will find these messages and give them some study.  Learn some truth.  Come out of the darkness of carnal, junk doctrines of carnal men.
 
Jo

Reply
 Message 4 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 5/2/2007 3:53 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameHoss·</NOBR> Sent: 7/19/2003 5:21 PM
Hi folks
I'm new here and don't know where all the scriptures are but what God has shown me.There will be no Rapture as the Church teaches.To be caught up with the Lord in the air is the same as being caught up in the Spirit.Does it not say as it was in the days of Noah ,so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man....One taken,one left.
Who was taken in the flood?Noah didn't go anywhere.He stayed right here.The wicked were removed.We could go on and on but just ponder on these thoughts.Ever notice when you go through the trials and troubles that God does not take you out of them but brings you through them.
Well I'll leave you at that...got to go over to the once saved always saved post.....God help us that people think that Jesus failed in his mission.
 
                                                       God Bless
 
 

Reply
 Message 5 of 5 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 5/2/2007 3:55 AM
From: joie Sent: 7/19/2003 10:35 PM
Hello again Blue eyed hillbilly,
 
I am so glad you read this and commented as you did.  Yes, that is true.  There is no such thing taught in the Word as any 'rapture'.
 
Know what?  Back in 1974, the year my baby Rachel was born,  for she was 3 months old when this happened.  I was traveling to a town to see my oldest sister.  on the way I passed by where a tornado had blown down and demolished a few chicken houses.  Some were left standing in tact.  God spoke to me,  Oh Yes,  He spoke to right there and said,  See the ones which were  TAKEN were the ones which were destroyed,  and the ones which were LEFT
ARE THE ONES STILL STANDING THERE.
 
Ever since that day,  I knew for sure that the 'church' has everything backwards.
 
I printed this great message out yesterday, and sat down and read it.  I can tell you all, you really should do this.  It was such a blessing to me.  I enjoyed it so very much.
 
I always teach the rapture lie as from the Scripture.  But this man took it back into history to it origin.  I really enjoyed learning this.
 
I was thinking today about how many things,  words, terms which are NOT WRITTEN IN THE WORD, WHICH ALMOST ALL CHURCH PEOPLE SWEAR BY.
 
Look at them:  rapture --- trinity---- triune god---- diety of jesus------first person in the godhead-- second person--- third person----- once saved, always saved-----celebrate jesus; birthday - he was born on Dec. 25...... he was resurrected on easter.... so hide some eggs and hunt them......this honours god.....get up early and worship the sun as it comes up for this is resurrection.... baptize in a trinity formular......reject all that the apostles taught... god is powerless today......the gifts of the spirit no longer exist...you cannot speak in tongues today or interpret them..... etc. (none of these things are written in God's Word; yet the church world all swears by them).  Why?
 
Then just look at how many words, and terms which  ARE WRITTEN IN THE WORD WHICH THEY REJECT AND CALL A LIE---- 
Baptism of the Holy Ghost
Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
wash away they sins in baptism
speak in tongues
pray for the sick and they shall recover
receive the gifts of the Holy Ghost
Lay hands on the sick and they shall recover, cast out devils, speak the Word and it shall stand. etc. etc.
These terms are WRITTEN IN THE WORD, YET THEY CALL THEM LIES.  Why?
 
See, ?  They are completely backwards to what the Word truly says.
 
So they call God a lie and lift up lies as the truth and will fight you over them.
 

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