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Women in Grace

You need to understand that all of God's word speaks to two different groups of people at all times. It all depends on which group you belong to, as to how you will interpret the Word. There are those of us who are under Grace; and there are those who are under the law. The majority of people are still under law; not because they have to be, but because they do not understand Grace. Paul spoke to both groups of people.

Romans 8:14-For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

V2-For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gal. 5:18-But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

The law is of the flesh. The children of the flesh are NOT the children of God. Those under the law are not the children of God. The children of God are led of the Spirit; therefore they are not under the law.

Now! Galatians and Acts clearly show that most of the churches put themselves right back under that law. Most of them still do today.

There are two different sets of 'rules' for these two different groups of people = the ones under the law-- and the ones under Grace.

Now, Paul clearly understood this matter. So do I. The same God, who taught Paul, teaches me.

Paul told the Corinthians YOUR women cannot teach. Why? Because they were under the law. He said, as also saith the LAW. That law is what he confirmed this decision with; not Grace. But it is important to realize that here Paul was only quoting what the men at that church were saying. He immediately rebukes them for this. He said, WHAT! Came the Word of God to you? Do you not realize that the words I speak to you are the commandments of the Lord; not the law of Moses, is what he is telling them.

That is why they had to ask their husbands AT HOME. The law did not allow them into the sanctuary. Is that what you desire for women today? If so, WHY?

Paul said in Gal. 3:27-For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Now, if I, a woman, have been baptized into Christ (and I have)--then I, a woman, have put on Christ; that means I am part of Christ; he is in me, I am in him. Now, you mean to tell me, I as a part of Christ, can not teach?

V28--There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

This tells me that if I am in Christ, I am neither male nor female; I am one with Jesus. That means I can teach; for I am in Jesus; Jesus is in me; so it is Jesus doing the teaching.

Why can't you see this? Why can't you see that if I am in Christ, I am not under law?

Study Strong's meaning of the Word, Servant, in connection with Romans 16:1--about Phoebe, you will find that one of the meanings is a teacher, a pastor, a ruler; it is said the word 'scourer' shows her to be in the dominant, upright position in that church.

Maybe, you don't trust Strongs?

Women under Grace are equal with men. They can do any thing in Christ that a man can do. Any man who tries to keep her from it is fighting against God; against Grace.

Grace goes all the way back to the start of man-kind. Abraham was in Grace. Moses was in Grace. These men were not under the law. Their women were also free. Eve was free and in Grace until she disobeyed God and listened to Adam and went with him under the law. Do you not know that the law is that tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Sure it is. Paul said by the law is the KNOWLEDGE OF SIN. He also said the ‘law�?of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the ‘law�?of sin and death. So there are two different laws all the way through the Word of God and all the way through the world. So Adam and Eve fell from Grace. This is the great falling away.

People, Paul said if you go back to LAW at any point, you are under the curse of the law and guilty to do it all. So if you put a woman under the law that she cannot do the speaking in the church, you have gone back to law, and Christ is of no effect to you. Now don’t you see how important this is? If Christ is of no effect to you, then you are going to hell.

See that as soon as Eve let herself eat of the law tree with Adam, that God placed her under his rulership? This is the only reason Adam was to rule over her, for it is law. It places the woman, who was created to aid and surround and protect her husband, down into an inferior position to the hurt of both of them. The head of the ‘serpent�?is that law. The law is the carnal mind and this is the head of the serpent. All carnal minded people are serpents. All carnal minded people are dead, under condemnation, under law, and in rebellion to God. See that one must be in grace to be free in Christ. If not, they are under the curse and bondage of law.

So if you tell a woman she cannot speak or preach the Word of God, then you are placing both yourself and the woman back under the law. The penalty for this is death.

The Word says there is no faith under the law. The law is not of faith. By the law shall no flesh be justified. So if a woman is in faith, she is not under the law and therefore she is free to do anything a man can do and he is to listen to her when she speaks the Word of God. Proof? Yes.

Heb. 11:11. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Now this said that Sara had faith. She judged God faithful who had promised. This is faith. So by this Sara was in Grace and could receive revelation of God’s Word and tell it to Abraham and expect Abraham to listen and obey. Every man had better obey the Word of God, even when it is a woman speaking God’s word. Proof? Yes.

Gen. 21: 9. And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.

10. Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

11. And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

12. And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Now, is not what Sarah spoke here the Word of the Lord? Then how is it that she is the one who received this revelation from God and not Abraham? Because she was in Grace. Did not Paul repeat this same revelation in Galatians? Sure he did. He quoted Sarah.

Now for another OT woman in grace: 1Sam. 1:18. And she said, Let thine handmaid find grace in thy sight. So the woman went her way, and did eat, and her countenance was no more sad.

This is Hannah, Samuel’s mother. She was sad about not having a child. She knew the revelation that Samuel was to be lent to the Lord. She prayed in tongues. It was not heard what she said. It caused Eli to think she was drunk. Sound familiar? Sure, Pentecost.

She was in Grace. No one can do this unless they are in grace.

1 Samuel 2: 1. And Hannah prayed, and said, My heart rejoiceth in the Lord, mine horn is exalted in the Lord: my mouth is enlarged over mine enemies; because I rejoice in thy salvation.

2. There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

3. Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.

4. The bows of the mighty men are broken, and they that stumbled are girded with strength.

5. They that were full have hired out themselves for bread; and they that were hungry ceased: so that the barren hath born seven; and she that hath many children is waxed feeble.

6. The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

7. The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

8. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.

9. He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

10. The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the Lord shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

Now I typed this entire prophecy of Hannah’s here. It is too important to leave any of it out. Let’s look at it a bit at a time.

Verse 1- She said My heart rejoices in the LORD. This shows she had His Spirit in her. ....my mouth is enlarged over mine enemies. Her enemies were the OT law. It said You cannot speak this Word; you must be in subjection. But she said, because I rejoice in thy salvation. So this proves she saw and was in the NT Grace, for there is salvation nowhere else. By the law shall no flesh be justified.

Her mouth being enlarged over the enemy means she has prevailed against that law, thou shalt not speak. She is now speaking the Word of the LORD. She is now speaking for all women in Grace. This includes me, Jo Smith.

Verses 3, 4 & 5 are speaking of men and the OT Law being put down from their high and lifted up seat of proud and arrogancy. It shows that God broke their bows and the women who stumbled are girded with strength. The ones who were full (the OT law against women) had to hire themselves out for bread. This means they had to come to the NT to get any spiritual food. She is prophesying here the fall of the OT.

In verse 5 she prophesied of the coming in of the seven churches, and the fall of the OT. . ..“the barren hath born seven, (this is the seven churches; for if you count Hannah’s children, even with Samuel, she had only six children, so it does not mean herself), and she that hath many children is waxed feeble. The OT Law is the one who had many children and waxed old and decayed or became feeble. What a might prophecy.

In verse six she spoke of death and the resurrection. This is both the human body and the fall of Israel (OT) and their rising again over in the NT Church.

Verses 6,7, 8 & 9 are speaking of bringing in the Gentiles and women into the body of Christ and the Church and the kingdom of Christ on equal grounds. In verse nine it speaks of the judgment when the wicked will be done away with and the saints upheld.

Verse 10 shows that all who fight against this choice of God will be destroyed at judgment and broken to pieces. Thundering upon them is God’s judgment against them. Then she prophesied of God giving strength unto Jesus the king, and exalting his horn, the anointed of God.

What a might message this woman in grace preached there that day! Thank God for Hannah.

Now this one may surprise you. But Miriam was in Grace. Ex. 15: 20. And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.

21. And Miriam answered them, Sing ye to the Lord, for he hath triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

See she was a prophetess. She is leading all the women into dances and singing praises to God. Why? Because at this time of deliverance from Egypt, they are NOT YET UNDER LAW.

Micah 6: 4. For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.

Now you may not see this, but it shows that Miriam was just as much a leader here as Moses and Aaron.

In 11 Kings 22, we are told of a prophetess called Huldah. The King Josiah sent unto her and asked for the Word of the Lord. She told him exactly how things would go and it came to pass. She was a true prophetess for she was in Grace.

Mary and Elizabeth both gave out very beautiful prophecies in the NT. They were speaking the Word of the Lord, for it is recorded Scripture. They spoke of the same thing Hannah did, of Jesus raising up the low estate of women and putting down the mighty from their seats. This brought about the original equality of men and women. This is Grace. Love your neighbor as yourself. Men dwell with your wives according to knowledge. What knowledge? This knowledge that in grace she is on equal grounds with you. She is not a bondmaid. She is a freeborn woman, a daughter of God.

The very first evangelist was the woman at the well. Jesus sent her out as the very first person to have the revelation that he was the Messiah. He gave her the revelation of God being a Spirit and of the Word of God being a river of life inside us by which we will never thirst again. She brought a whole town to Jesus and was thus instrumental in their salvation.

Mary shows us that Jesus wants women sitting at his feet learning the Word and then ministering. She was the one who had the revelation of his coming burial and anointed him for this. She is the one who had chosen the good part of learning the Word from his mouth. She shows us that the woman’s place is not in house work and serving food. Thank God for Mary.

A little poor woman was the first one to know the NT way of giving. She gave all she had. Jesus praised her for this and said it would be a testimony for her from now on.

A woman taken in adultery was used to help bring in grace to sinners.

And of course there is the wonderful fact that Jesus sent out the very first message of the resurrection (to men) by a woman, Mary Madeline.

And of course no teaching of women in grace would be complete without Phoebe. She was a pastor of a church. Paul said she had succoured many, and himself also. This means the same thing as the original job of women, that of being a help-meet. It means to lead, aid, surround and protect. Phoebe was a mighty worker of God. Paul highly commended this woman to the churches. And many women worked in the ministry with Paul. Thank God for Phoebe and all of them. Pricilla was a mighty worker in the Word.

Gen 1:27 -So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. ( Hey this says that the male and female was created in the image of God. Wonder why if it is as some say that a woman cannot teach and not even speak why would he also create female in his image and not let them be able to tell the world about him. Just does not make any sense to me.

1:28 -And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. ( Seems like the woman is also blessed. How is she suppose to be fruitful and multiply and repleshish the earth if she is to keep her mouth shut? This is talking about spiritual things and not about having babies.

1:31 -And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Luke-1:26-35-

001:026 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

001:027 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

001:028 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

001:029

And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

001:030

And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

001:031

And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

001:032

He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

001:033

And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

001:034

Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

001:035

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Ok allow me to go back and explain these words I have underlined.

This will take a lot of time and some hard work to do but if this helps even one person it will be worth it all to me and I also know God will bless me for the effort I have put into this. Praise the Lord and to him be all the glory.

The word favored or favor means the followings- [ friendly regard showed toward another person esp. by a superior-it also means to approve, choose, to show mercy, recover. Then I looked up the word recover to see what it meant and it meant the following-to get back again, to reclaim which means to restore, to recall from wrong conduct, to change from undesirable to a desired condition.

See she was approved of God and changed from undesirable to a desired condition and God showed mercy on her and restored her back to the original state and reclaimed what she was at the beginning a help meet. The word blessed means -to speak well of, praise, to be made holy. From this we see that she was no longer a cursed seed but a holy seed. See she had to be changed because a curse see can not bring forth a holy seed and that’s what he said that she was to do. He said that which is borned of you shall be holy and shall be called the Son of God.

The word trouble means- to be disturb, to worry.She began to worry and to be disturbed about this because she had always been taught that nothing holy could come from a woman because she was still under that curse. The same thing is happing in this day and time. Most everybody especially the church are keeping her under the bondage that God has set her free from.

vs.30-He told Mary fear not, for thou hast found favor with God. Clear cut evidence that it was God that set her free from this bondage and who God set free is free indeed .So you see women you are no longer under that curse you are free indeed.

Let me show you something here why this curse had to be removed from her before Jesus comes on the scene.

Math.- 7:16-20-

007:016

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

007:017

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

007:018 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

007:019 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

007:020

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. So we see from this that God had to remove the curse that he had placed on the woman before she could bring forth a good seed. He said in the above vs. that a corrupt seed could not bring forth a righteous seed.

The word overshadow means-to illuminate, to supply with spiritual or intellectual light- to exceed in importance, and also means to surpass which means-to exceed , to be or become superior to, worthy to be reverenced. LUKE-1:45-53- 001:045 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

001:046 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

001:047 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

001:048 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

001:049 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

001:050 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

001:051 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. 001:052 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

001:053 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away

VS.-48-He has regarded- means he showed her respect or to hold her in high esteem Low estate-means she was in a humble or unfavorable position

She was in a position that she could be mighty used of God because she had become humble before God.

Luke-18:14- I tell you, this [woman] went down to [her] house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and [she] that humbleth [herself] shall be exalted.

Now don’t go get upset and say I am changing scriptures to say what I want them to say. All I am trying to do is to show that the woman was in a humble state and by doing this she touched the heart of God and he exalted her. In other words he raised her up from that low estate she was in.

Exalt-means to raise up esp. in rank, power or dignity. She was found to be worthyHandmaiden-means to be a servant. He exalted her so she is no longer a servant but now she is a daughter.

From henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Who was he referring to here? Was it Mary? No he was referring to his handmaidens. You see what he did for Mary he did for all you women. He removed that yoke of bondage or that so called curse. See God is no respecter or person. What he does for one he will do for all. Praise the Lord

Ok back to Luke 1:48-

from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Now all of you that says the woman is still under the curse of that law what are you going to do with this scripture? Tell me how she can be cursed and blessed at the same time.

It said that he blessed her which means to respect, sanctify, praise. That does not look like any curse seed to me looks to me like a holy seed.

Vs.-51- He hath shewed strength with his arm;[ in other words this woman was to his arm to bring forth and birth a man child which was Jesus who was to be his right hand. In other words she was to be his help meet.]

ISAIAH-40:10-11- Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

040:011 -He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

Who was he talking about here when he said his arm will rule for him? It had to be the woman because he said that they were with young.

Jeremiah-31-22- How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.[ see what was happening over in Luke with Mary the LORD was ushering in a new move of God. The word compass hear means to lead. Need I Say anymore about the woman?

I think not.

Ladies don't be deceived

Tom, did you read my message on the woman at the well? I think you should go back and open your mind and study that message.

I have showed you many times how Jesus himself gave that woman, and Mary the Word of God and sent them out to tell it to men. Why do you refuse to accept this?

You need to get rid of your hard heart. Let Jesus give you the Spirit; a soft heart, open to the truth of Grace. There are no 'servants' or 'sub-servants' under grace. No one is to rule over another under grace. Jesus said so. With you it will not be so. That one rule over another. you are all one.

How do YOU explain about Hannah receiving Prophecy from God and speaking it out in the place of worship at shilo? and it being written down as the Word of God? This is a woman. How do you explain it.?

How do you explain the woman at the well? Jesus gave her revelations He had not given to anyone else. Read it carefully. Then he let her go and 'preach' it to the man in that town. How do you explain this?

How do you explain that Jesus gave Mary Magdelene the very first message (revelation) of his resurrection and TOLD her to go TELL HIS DECIPLES = MEN? How do you explain that?

Reply

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Delete Message 10 of 70 in Discussion

From: joie

Sent: 1/16/2002 1:09 AM

Tom, I noticed that you said you know what the law says about the woman. And then that you know what the N.T. says about the woman.

But, I know that this is a revelation which very few people know--- the N.T. is NOT where it is written in the Book. So also, the 'law' is not where it is written in the Book.

If you can get this, it is a door which will open up much revelation = meat = food for the grown sheep.

There is a message of 'grace' from Gen. to Rev.

There is a message of 'law' from Gen. to Rev.

Noah was under grace. So was Moses. And some others. So, it is not the O.T. It is the way God deals with a person; it is faith or not faith.

The law is not of faith. Grace sets all under it FREE. Law puts all under it in bondage. So, you are trying to place all women back under law; under bondage.

No, you do NOT know what the N.T. says about women. You only know what Paul said to the women still under the law.

From: joie

Sent: 1/18/2002 5:17 PM

There is a lot which needs to be said here.

Lord Jesus, please give me your wisdom and your words in this and all other matters. Amen.

First let me say this: Let Tom continue to bring out all he possible can on this subject. You see, there is a whole lot more at stake here than the fact of weather a woman can or can not carry the Word of God. Salvation itself is dependant on this matter.

The more God reveals to me on this, the more I see everything hinges on this thing: are you in Grace or the Law.

I am learning more about these two things every day. It is very amazying.

I was re-reading another post a while ago; the one about Hannah . God showed me that the reason Eli could not 'hear' what she was saying is NOT because she was speaking silently, as I have always assumed. Rather, she was speaking in tongues. She was being filled with the Holy Ghost. Eli said she was DRUNK. Now that is what they said about them on the day of Pentecost. It is a signal of being filled with the Holy Ghost. The reason Eli could not 'hear' it was not that he heard not SOUND; rather the 'hearing' here, means understanding. As in He that hath ears to HEAR = UNDERSTAND. Eli was not spiritual enough to 'hear' her tongues---he perceived it as acting DRUNK. The natural man receiveth NOT the things of the SPIRIT of God; for to him it is foolishness. Those under the law think speaking in tongues is foolishness. But it is the things of the Spirit of God.

I always thought they could not have it back then. That is what I had been taught. But God showed me that you cannot have GRACE without being filled with the Holy Ghost. Then Hannan prophycied; another of the two signs of having the Holy Ghost = speaking in tongues and prophycing. And of course of seeming to be drunk.

Then Hannan showed another sign of it; she went away joyful; she was no longer sad. Then she (after receiving the Holy Ghost) began to speak the Word of God.

All those in the O.T. days, who had Grace, were filled with the Holy Ghost. All the others were under the law. You cannot have true FAITH withoug having the Holy Ghost. They all go together.= Grace --Faith ---Holy Ghost.

When God changed Abraham's name; it signaled a new thing with God; a new experience ; becoming a new creation in Christ. What was the sign? Circumcision.

So, what is the sign of being filled with the Holy Ghost? Circumcision ----BUT not that of the flesh == rather, that of cutting away the body of sins = having the Holy Ghost.

So, only those who have been filled with the Holy Ghost have Grace ---or faith ---or can truly speak the mysteries of the Word of God. All others are under the LAW.

cont

From: joie

Sent: 1/18/2002 5:59 PM

Let your LIGHT so shine before men that the may glorify our Father.

Lord Jesus, please let this little light you have given me shine here today before my sisters and brothers. Amen.

Tom, You say God set up 'preachers' to 'rule' over us --- I say to you--- you are STILL under the LAW. For under GRACE no one rules over another--- we are all ONE in Christ = in Grace. Christ is GRACE.

Moses is LAW.

As I said before, there are two messages written ALL THROUGH THE WORD- from Gen. through Rev. You are 'hearing' the message of LAW = BONDAGE..

Did you ever read this:? 1John 2:27--But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: BUT AS THE SAME ANOINTING TEACHETH YOU OF ALL THINGS, AND IS TRUTH, AND IS NO LIE, AND EVEN AS IT HATH taught you, ye shall abide in him.

see, there is the other message; the one for us in Grace. We need no man to teach us--- God gave us an anointing = the Holy Ghost= to teach us. Truly, no man taught me the things I know: only when I quit going to men's synogogues and stopped listening to man, did I began to learn real truth----taught to me by God.

To waygoddoesthings, I say, maybe you think women can do this---but listen to yourself---your reason is all wrong----you say, if men would take THEIR RIGHTFUL PLACE ---then women would not HAVE to do it. HAVE TO DO IT?????

I do not HAVE to do it. I do it because God gave me this love and His call to do it. I do not do it because some man does not do it. If all the men in the world did it, the women should also still do it. Every Christian is called to give out the Word -===let the LIGHT shine.

You still think men have the RIGHTFUL PLACE ---and that the only reason women can do it is because men fail to do it???? I say to you -NO NO NO!!!!

This is not the case at all. There is very little difference in what you say and what Tom says.

Now, Tom brought out that the woman at the well was a 'bad' woman---he seemed to sort of sneer at Jesus for picking this woman to reveal His precious secrets to. He seemed to say that because she was bad--- Jesus let her go tell all the men of that town about Him. (that was BEFORE she came to Christ; after that she was a good woman).

I called her 'preaching', just to show Tom that there is no real difference in 'telling' and 'preaching'. I do not really think she was a preacher.

You see, there is a greater way of giving out the Word than preaching. Preaching is not the highest calling. Look at 1Cor.1:21---For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

See that? By the FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING --but what was it for? To save them that believe.

There is a lot more to the work of God. Feeding the sheep so they can grow up in Christ is a higher calling. We all know that PREACHING has never really fed any of us. The preachers do not have the Word to give out. YOu all know it. It does one thing: helps bring conviction. At least it used to. I don't think it is there any more. The World is full of 'heirlings'. (men who accept money for doing it).

That woman went and 'witnessed' of Jesus to the men of that town and won the whole town to Jesus. Tom, how do you put that down? Have you ever done that?

You say you do not have a hard heart --- listen to yourself--- you say of the situation in Eden---woman go read that and WEEP. Weep???? You seem to rejoice because you think we are still under bondage and cannot have the glory of freedom in Christ. That is not hard-hearted???

I say it is very hard-hearted. I say it is evil.

You say that all Mary told the deciples is Jesus will see you in Galilee? Now, I say that is not true. she told them that Jesus had risen. Do you say that this message of the resurrection is not part of the message those men told the World? That it has nothing to do with our salvation???

The Word does not always, in fact never, tells ALL that is said or done. It gives us a part. When the jailer was told by Paul to believe--- it goes on the say that Paul preached the Word to him. see, that is not all Paul told him.

If every thing Jesus did was written, the world could not hold the books.

The reason the deciples believed her not--- has not one thing to do with what happened to Eve. For even after Jesus himself testified to them, they did not believe at first. Why did they not believe Him?

The fact still remains that Jesus gave the woman at the well revelation and let her go tell it to men. she was in Grace. she could do it.

He gave Mary a message and let her go tell it to men. She was in grace. she could do it. I am in grace. I can do it; and I will. Jesus told me to do it. and I will. Glory to God.

Jesus told his deciples You shall not have rulership over one another. It is only to those still under law. Those seven churches were still under law. They are the ones Paul laid down instructions to.

From: joie

Sent: 1/18/2002 6:17 PM

One more thing I meant to bring out: When Mary told them that Jesus would see them in Galilee--- This is more than just 'telling someone, he will meet you there'.

In Matt. 26:32 --(and it is in Mark)---Jesus had prophecied, just before his death, to the deciples, "After I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee."

So, see, Here Mary is speaking about fulfilled prophecy: this is what peaching is: speaking fulfilled prophecy. She was given the same message, or prophecy, that Jesus told the men just before his crucifixion---- they had heard these words; but still had not one clue that Jesus would die and raise again. Yet, he had JUST told them that very thing.

Mary was the first one to get this revelation. Jesus showed all the way that He was dealing with women. Only someone so hard-hearted, or deceived could over look all this much evidence that Jesus did not exclude women from the ministry.

From: joie

Sent: 1/21/2002 12:05 PM

Whom the Son hath set FREE if FREE indeed.

If a woman is still bound by that 'law' she has not been set FREE. Then she is STILL a bond-servant --- and not a DAUGHTER of God. That means she is still under the law = the Old Covenant. Under this convnant is no salvation.

So, this teaching condemns all women to be lost. Women , do not accept this teaching from any self-called 'apostle' or any other mis-led, woman hating man.

Sure, they hate us if they want to place us back under the bondage which Jesus set us free from.

Jesus gave Mary the first revelation of his resurrection and told her to go give that message to his disciples. No one can change this. If you will read in John, you will see that both John and Peter had been there at the tomb just minutes before Jesus appeared to Mary.

This show that Jesus CHOSE to wait and reveal this to Mary and then to SEND her with this message to them.

If Jesus had wanted to tell it to the men himself, he most certainly could have. He certainly could have appeared to John and Peter while they were at the grave; as he did to Mary. There has to be a very important reason Jesus waited and appeared FIRST to a woman.

Jesus was changing that old covenant and that 'yoke' placed on the woman right here; at the grave.

Just because those seven churches chose to go back under the old covenant of the LAW, does not mean that this is what governs us under Grace.

Maybe AT LEAST ONE OF YOU CAN GET WHAT I AM SAYING. Maybe at least one of you can see that difference in Law and Grace. At least I hope and pray so.

If ANY ONE IS UNDER ANY KIND OF BONDAGE = LAW---they are not in Grace. In Grace we are all ONE. When will you see this?

From: joie

Sent: 1/21/2002 12:17 PM

Jesus gave Mary an infaliable 'sign' that He had given her a new message and sent her to give this message to men.

Tom said the reason the disciples doubted Mary was because of Eve being deceived. But this is not true. They even doubted Jesus after he told them.

But, you see, Jesus took steps to PROVE to them that he had commisioned Mary to carry this message to them. He gave her a sure 'sign'; for he knew the Jews require a sign.

What is this sign? Read in Matt. and Mark, just as Jesus and the disciples went out to the Garden after the last supper;---Jesus prophecied to them there that after his resurrection, he would meet them in Galilee (Matt.26:32.

Now, Mary was NOT with them. Those men knew that she had no way of knowing that Jesus had said this to them. Therefore, Jesus gave her the same prophecy to tell to the men. They had to know that Jesus gave her this; for she had no other way of knowing that Jesus had promised to meet them in Galilee, after his resurrection.

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From: joie

Sent: 1/21/2002 12:23 PM

Tom, you say prophecying and preaching are two different things: then I ask you --- what is one to prophecy? If he/she prophecies ANYTHING EXCEPT THE WORD OF GOD, they are WRONG.

What are they to preach? if he/she preaches ANYTHING EXCEPT THE WORD OF GOD , they are WRONG.

So, then I ask you, (think about this) WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE

From: joie

Sent: 1/21/2002 8:09 PM

Tom, I see you have swallowed down a made up lie. I ask you for even one Scripture which says Adam partook of that 'fruit' for his wife. It is not true.

The Word speaks many times of Adam's transgression; and calls it a greater transgression than others. Adam willfully disobeyed God; for he wanted to be God.

Adam is the devil. I know this; for I have done much studying on this and found Scriptual proof. I do not have the time now to do a message on this. It will have to be a full message to cover it as it should by.

The 'serpent' is the carnal mind. Jesus spoke to satan in Peter. This is how it was in Adam. When you add words and thoughts to the Scripture, you will never know the truth. Saying Adam did this because of Eve is adding a lie to the Word.

Adam's carnal mind is what deceived Eve. The Word is written so that it can only be given by revelation. Only the true sheep of God will ever know these secrets of God. God gives his secrets to those who love and fear Him.

From: joie

Sent: 1/22/2002 2:08 PM

Tom, I will answer you comments one at a time. Right now, I will just give you this one Scripture. I have been on most of the day on another community; and therefore, I need to get up and do some of my other work. But, will come back to this just as soon as I can.

John 20:17--Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them,

I ASCEND UNTO MY fATHER, AND YOUR fATHER; AND TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.

Now, Tom, you said that Jesus never told Mary to go tell the disciples anything; that only the angel told her this. but, here is proof that Jesus did tell her to go tell the disciples something. and, please notice, that he did not tell her to tell them about meeting them in Galille; at least not here in this Scripture.

Here, Jesus gave Mary a great revelation----the first time he reveals this to anyone. Another first revelation to a WOMAN.

He revealed that he was going to ascend to someone he called his Father and our Father; but also he called this one his God. Now, I know there are many, many who are mixed up and think that Jesus IS the Father; that he is the only one called God. but see, here Jesus reveals to Mary that this being he is going to ascend to is his, Jesus' God.

Now, in addition to giving this great revelation to a woman, Mary, Jesus tells this woman to go tell it to his men disciples. This is the revelatin that he is going to leave this earth and ascend up to his God. He had not revealed this to anyone before. So, see, this is a new message to be given out to the world. Mary was the first person to be given this message; and the first person told by Jesus to tell it.

Telling is no different from preaching. You must think one must stand behind a thing called a 'pulpit' (man-made stuff) and hollower at people to be called preaching. But I do not believe that.

I know that on the Bible disputing board, you said a woman could not even tell her children a thing about salvation or the Scriptures. I do not see how anyone could believe this. Now, you see that Jesus told her to carry a great message to his men disciples.

When will YOU accept this written word?

From: joie

Sent: 1/22/2002 4:41 PM

John 17:20--Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

v21---that they all may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

v22---And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be ONE, even as WE ARE ONE:

v23---I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Galatians 3:26---For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

v27---For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

v28--There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither MALE NOR FEMALE: FOR YE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS.

v29---And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

From: nellie

Sent: 12/22/2001 1:06 PM

John 1:12--But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the SONS of God, even to them that believe on his name.

Romans 8:14--For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS of God.

Gal. 4:5---To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of SONS.

6--And because ye are SONS, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

v7--wherefore thou are no more a servant, but a SON and if a SON, then an heir of God through Christ.

Phil. 2:15--That ye may be blameless, and harmless, the SONS of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.

Heb. 2:10--For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many SONS unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Now, there are just a few of the many Scriptures which lump us ALL together as SONS of God. So, I ask you, do you take this to mean that only men are in this SON group? If so, it looks to me as if women are not going to have salvation. And that is how many of you men (mostly on other boards) seem to want it.

So, if God's SONS are the ones to carry the gospel, which one of his SONS can do it? Are women not included in that group to whom he said if we believe, we will be made SONS of God?

Are we left out of that group to whom he said he would being his SONS to glory?

ETC.

Have you ever taken the time to study out just WHO that serpent was who was talking to and deceiving Eve? I tell I have; and found it to be none other than ADAM.

Jesus called the religious hypocrites SERPENTS.

It all started with ADAM.

Jesus freed us from that yoke of being ruled over by these SERPENTS.

Eve listened to that ADAM, SERPENT instead of God; that is why she was ruled over by him; until Jesus came , forgave her, and freed her. (us).

Beloved, (sisters) now are we the SONS of God, and it doeth not yet appear what we shall be, but when he appears we shall be like HIM.

Nellie

By one man's sin, were many made sinners.

The CHURCH is FEMALE. The CHURCH is a WOMAN. There are TWO WOMEN in the FIELD. These two women are Jerusalem and Babylon. Mind you, that is ALL there is in the world---these two women.

Jerusalem is the true CHURCH, OR BRIDE of Jesus.

Babylon is the false CHURCH, OR BRIDE OF SATAN.

Every body is in one or the other.

If the woman was never freed from the yoke of being ruled over, and set on equal grounds with men, so that she can teach, preach, any thing else; then the CHURCH, which is a female---the bride, can never teach. The women, is the natural, shows the CHURCH, in the spiritual; therefore, if the woman is not free to teach, in the patterns of God, the CHURCH is not free to teach.

With Christ as the church's head, how is the female church able to teach?

with men as our head, how is that keeping us from teaching?

The only way, is that we still be under the bondage of the LAW. The LAW is not bride to christ.

Those still married to the law are not bride to christ. The Spirit and the Bride SAY COME. That is preaching. It is giving out a very important spiritual message.

one absolutely MUST study the Word and go exactly by what the Word says; without adding or taking away one single word.

For instance, in one of rod's recent posts, he stated that the church was the one who would lead us and guide us into all truth. Well, Jesus said that was the job of the Holy Ghost.

See, that is how they lie in wait to deceive. If they change one word to make it say what they want it to say, it is lies and will lead to more lies; which lead to HELL.

In Jere. 15: 9--it says--She that hath borne seven languisheth: she hath given up the ghost: her sun is gone down while it was yet day: she hath been ashamed and confounded: and the residue of them will I deliver to the sword before their enemies, saith the LORD.

When the word speaks of these 'seven' it means those seven churches in Revelation. She (the church) bore seven = seven churches. All seven of these were a mixture of some good and some evil; some more than others. But, none of them were the Church without spot, wrinkle, or blemish. See, if they had some wrong, it was a blemish. But the true Bride Church is without any such thing. There were only two such churches.

According to Rev. they stand on either side of those seven. So, according to the verse in Jer. if 'her' sun goes down while it was yet day; this means God left her in darkness. In one of the prophets it says 'the sun went down on the prophets'. This means God was through dealing with and through the prophets. This was when He closed off the O.T. and brought in the N.T. Church.

When they (the O.T. nation of Israel) saw that God had left off dealing with nations, and was now dealing with churches---they joined together with the heathen, of whom they had always followered ( read how they always fell to worshipping the idols of the heathen around them)--- and they formed this false church. It was headed up by the head of the pagan religion, the pope. They trampled the truth to the ground and killed (ate down Jesus' vine) (see Joel 1)--and took over the whole world. That is why the catholics have the 'priest' system: it is a carry over of the old Levitical priesthood. But See, the true church has only one high priest, Jesus. Then we are all priest to God. They deny that.

But Jesus took the keys to that bottomless pit and opened it up and let his people come out. See the two open doors in Rev.

But, as they came out, they formed another church just like the one they came out of, thus forming the image to that beast church. That is the protestant churches. They killed those who disagreed with them. They still retained their heathen idol holiday worship things. Thus, they still did not come back to the real powerful church started on the day of Pentecost.

But, Jesus said His Church would not fail: so, He is going to bring forth another true, powerful church; but this will be after the last of the seven. I fully believe we are at that time. If those seven were true churches, they would not end up languishing as shown in Jer. 15. If she gave up the 'ghost' this means she is dead. That is where we are. Read about that seventh church in Rev. 3. You will find it is naked, blind, miserable lukewarm; ready to be spued out of God's mouth. So how, could this be God's true church? See, there is no way. She is the whore; she is married to Satan.

Isa. 14 and Rev. 17 show that this spirit rules over the kingdoms of this world; it shows to be satan. So, the people in this 'kingdom' is the bride or wife of Satan. That is those seven churches. Of course, there came forth some true Christians out of each of those churches. But the church itself had the seat of Satan in their midst. They had known the depths of Satan in some of those churches. Take the time to study Rev. 1 - 3.

So, if the state of that last church is all there is to it--then Jesus' word would not be true, that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. So, there will come forth another annointed, powerful Church; ; but only after that seventh one has given up the ghost.

I know this is long; but it is the only I can show you this. I know pillar is also a very good teacher.

I have posted some of this on another board; I will try to copy and bring it here to help you see this.

Job 31: 33--If I covered my TRANSGRESSIONS as ADAM, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:

Look up 'hiding'; it means he covered it up or hid it--in others words, lied about it; blamed Eve.

Romans 5: 12--Wherefore, as by one MAN sin entered into the world, and death by sin: and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(woe, here, don't I remember you saying some people had never sinned---read the above verse---all have sinned)

v15--But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

v17--for if by one MAN'S offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

v19--For as by one MAN'S disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

(wow----look here---MANY BE MADE RIGHTEOUS)

1Cor. 15: 22--For as in ADAM all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Now, these verses clearly tie Adam to the transgression. He was not deceived; but willfully sinned against God. It clearly says that because of Adam's sin, all became sinners. It did not say because of Eve's sin-- as everyone seems to want to do.

I think it is time both men and women accept that we are all one--- and stop this fighting about this matter. We were all guilty; we may all be delivered and set free--- we may all be Sons of God---we may all be the Bride of Christ--we may all preach or teach or anything else in the Body of Christ; that is if we have been Baptized by the Holy Ghost into the Body.

I do not hate men; but someone has to fight this biggotry of men against the women Christians. Why do men hate the fact that Jesus delivered us and set us free? It is that old arrogrant, proud spirit which God hates.

Lord Jesus, deliver us of this evil, hatred of men against your daughters.

I just want to show this verse also. You and many other men try to use the thing of Eve being deceived, as if men are never deceived. Well, that is just NOT true.

11Tim. 3: 13--But evil MEN and seducers shall wax worse and worse, DECEIVING, AND BEING DECEIVED.

Read verses 2-7--for more on how evil MEN are.

v8--Now as Jannes and Jambres (men) withstood Moses, as do these also resist the truth; men of corrupt minds, REPROBATE CONCERNING THE FAITH.

So, I think here is enough to stop this stupidy of thinking the man is some great holy thing, and the woman is just a sub-servant class thing.

He speaks in chp. 2 of some more evil men who had words as cancers. Better take this battle of the 'sexes' out of Christianity.

It has no place in the New Testament Church.

tHIS thread has many, many powerful and glorious truths in it.

It would do you all well to take some time and study this entire thread. It is one of the most important things in all this world to learn the TRUTH which is presented here.

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