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General : Let The Games Begin
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Reply
 Message 1 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_  (Original Message)Sent: 11/6/2008 5:01 PM

LET THE GAMES BEGIN

 

By Coach Dave Daubenmire
November 6, 2008
NewsWithViews.com

The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion. Prov. 28:1

Well, the Republicans got their butts kicked and I don’t know of anyone who is surprised. John McCain was not a conservative no matter how much Republican-radio tried to convince us he was. Come on now, we’re talking about a guy who had considered being John Kerry’s running mate, had entertained the idea of adopting Al Gore’s running mate Joe Lieberman as his own, who led the “gang of twelve�?in blocking the filibustering of Supreme Court judges, who stuck his hand “across the aisle�?so much he was as flexible as Gumby, and who was ultimately done-in by McCain-Feingold which he wrote in order to get the money out of politics. Somebody forgot to tell President-elect Obama about that law.

I got lambasted by many last week for not drinking the Republican kool-aide. “You are just going to elect Obama, and the blood will be on your hands,�?/EM> I heard from more than one Christian. Here’s what they don’t understand. While most of them had only recently peeped out from the safety of the church, many of us had spent the last eight-years in the trenches fighting against the compromise in the Church.

We are losing the war because Christianity has gone soft. Compromise has drained the church of strength in the same way kryptonite weakened Superman. We are no longer bold because we are no longer righteous. Is there anyone out there who would dare call John McCain a righteous man? No wonder the woman standing beside him roared like a lion as he lay in the middle of the road. “Reaching across the aisle�?is cowardly. McCain thought it was strength. The middle of the road is a dangerous to be. Now he is nothing more than road kill.

"When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase." Prov. 28:28 For the life of me I cannot understand why our Christian leadership is so cowardly. There are a lot of folks hiding who should be roaring.

The “lesser of two evils�?argument is based on fear. God cannot possibly honor that. He is looking for bold believers who will �?A target=_top href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude%201:3-4;&version=9;">earnestly contend for the faith,�?and not faint in the day of adversity. How many Christians voted, not FOR McCain, but AGAINST President Obama? How many “leaders�?suggested that to their followers?

Well not me. I’m not ashamed of the Gospel. I don’t think hiding Jesus under a bushel is very good way to fight. Somebody needs to let Him loose. Last I checked He is still the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

“God is in control, Coach,�?/EM> I hear all of the time. “We just need to trust that He is working His plan.�?/EM>

“Really?�?/EM> I ask. “You mean Jesus is not afraid of Obama? He actually chooses the one who will win? Why are you voting for the lesser of two evils then? Why don’t you just vote the Bible and let the Lord sort it all out?�?/EM>

Well, I’m not afraid of Obama either. And I certainly am not afraid of the god-hating agenda that many fear (there’s that word again) he will promote. If God is in control, then it makes sense to vote what God stands for. "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." Faith and fear are mutually exclusive, like fire and water. Faith and fear cannot abide in the same heart.

Voting for the lesser of two evils reveals something about our hearts. I’ll let you figure it out. More importantly, it reveals something about the heart of our leadership.

Turn on the TV and watch the Humanistic gospel being preached today. I am amazed at the apparent disconnect between what is going on in the world and the cause and effect relationship between sin and society. Our “preachers�?are belching out the prosperity message while our nation is belching out Jesus, yet they fail to understand their obligation to testify to the Truth. Afraid (oops, there it is) of the IRS and the government peeking under their tent, they wimpishly stand in their pulpits and exhort their flock to “vote�?without telling them who or how. That is like giving a five-year old a gun and telling him to go shoot. Our moral foundation is crumbling and they call for “non-partisan prayer�?(I got invited to such a gathering the other night) as if Jesus was non-partisan on the moral issues.

For God sake, quit ye like men. Stand up and be counted! No wonder there aren’t many lions anymore. No one is preaching righteousness!

And most national family ministries are no better. Having spent so much time rubbing elbows with the power brokers in the elephant party they have been compromised by their wink and nod at the outrageously un-Christian things that have been done in the name of Christianity in the past eight years. We were told that GW was a Christian man�?less evil than Gore and Kerry…and the fruit of his faith has left a stench in the mouth of un-Christian Americans. As my Mama always told me, “If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas.�?No wonder so many high-powered Christians have the itches. I guess it was the lesser of two fleas.

“Shame on you Coach�?/EM> you say. “You shouldn’t be speaking against a Christian brother that way.�?/EM>

Really. Maybe if some of the big dogs had spoken up there wouldn’t be so many fleas on the body. Dumb dogs, Isaiah called them, afraid (hmm) to bark. (Funny how that fear word keeps popping up.) I don’t think Jesus would hop in bed with either group.

All right. I’ve made enough of you mad for one night. I’ll stop barking.

But let me leave you with this. I’m not cowering over in some corner afraid of the Obama-monster. You won’t find me crouched with my blankie sucking on my thumb over the condition of the nation. And I can promise you that you will not find me hiding in some church praying that God protects my poor little self until the rapture bus shows up when I should be busy sharpening my sword.

No siree Bub, not me. I’m looking for a fight and all I have to do is stick my head outside my door. The wolves are panting for my hide, and they will soon be after your pastors. But I will be darned if I am going to sit around and wait for them to take away all of my God-given freedoms. It is time to stand-up and fight like a man.

The anemic-Church and her anemic watchmen are pathetic.

They way I see it the ante just went up. The battle for truth, justice and the American way just moved into the big-leagues. As a young kid I always wanted to play in the big leagues. Looks like I will finally get my chance.

But I won’t be alone. Peter LaBarbera will be there and so will Ron Brock’s Truth Truck. In fact, many of God’s all-stars will be there with us. Flip Benham, Rusty Thomas, Pastor Mark Holich, Mike Heath, David Parker, James Hartline, Sheriff Jim Schwiesow, Mark Harrington, Pastor Ernie Sanders, Greg Evenson, Devvy Kidd, Derry Brownfield, Andrew Wallace, Pastor Mark Kiser, Gregory Thompson, E. Ray Moore and Betty Freauf will proudly take their positions.

Never heard of them? I’m not surprised. They don’t have national TV shows, and they don’t pal around with their political friends on the Potomac. No folks, these are bold Christians, righteous Christians, lion-like Christians. They are the real leaders that America has been crying for.

“�?A target=_top href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%2011:32;&version=9;">but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

Too many Christian leaders no longer recognize God. No wonder they are cowering.

At no time in American history has the battle for Truth been so apparent. God has been preparing his men. Like the Men of Issachar they understand that now is the time to stand.

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. Mathew 11:12.

For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but thou and thy father's house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this? Esther 4:14.

Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied. I Samuel 17:45.

The Apostle Paul wrote much of the New Testament from jail.

Let the games begin!



First  Previous  25-39 of 39  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 25 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHisAlone2Sent: 11/13/2008 3:56 PM
P.S. We have all been used as instruments (students) of the devil at one time or another, whether wittingly or unwittingly.

Reply
The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 26 of 39 in Discussion 
Sent: 11/13/2008 4:02 PM
This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.

Reply
 Message 27 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHisAlone2Sent: 11/13/2008 4:07 PM
Don,  you totally ignored this part of what I asked in post #20....what about it??????????
 
From post #20 ~ Now Don, why don't you define the difference between life and human life?  Do you think that the life that is created from a female egg and a male's sperm is a dog or a cat?  Of course not!  It is human life.  Why is it necessary to make the distinction you are trying to make here? 

Reply
 Message 28 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/13/2008 5:19 PM
Jefferson was not an agnostic nor an atheist.  He believed in God, but not that Jesus Christ was God.
 

 
During the presidential campaign of 1800, the Federalists attacked Jefferson as an infidel, claiming that Jefferson's intoxication with the religious and political extremism of the French Revolution disqualified him from public office. But Jefferson wrote at length on religion and many scholars agree with the claim that Jefferson was a deist, a common position held by intellectuals in the late 18th century, at least for much of his life. As Avery Cardinal Dulles, a leading Roman Catholic theologian reports, "In his college years at William and Mary [Jefferson] came to admire Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, and John Locke as three great paragons of wisdom. Under the influence of several professors he converted to the deist philosophy."[32] Dulles concludes:
In summary, then, Jefferson was a deist because he believed in one God, in divine providence, in the divine moral law, and in rewards and punishments after death; but did not believe in supernatural revelation. He was a Christian deist because he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. He was not an orthodox Christian because he rejected, among other things, the doctrines that Jesus was the promised Messiah and the incarnate Son of God. Jefferson's religion is fairly typical of the American form of deism in his day.

Reply
 Message 29 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameDon__42Sent: 11/14/2008 5:04 AM
HisAlone,
 
I've learned over the years that any time a person uses "but" in a statement it reverses the first part of the sentence.
 
You and I do not agree on Thomas Jeffereson beliefs and I did read the material in the link you provided.
 
I remember a number of times in this community when the doctrine of the Trinity has come up and the Deity (Divinity) of Jesus. If my memory serves me correctly MrWonder you have taken the stand that the Trinity and the Deity of Christ coupled to His death for our sins and resurrection is the cornerstine of being a Christian.
 
Now you say the Thomas Jefferson was a Christian deist even though history and those things written about his beliefs plainly bring out Thomas Jefferson did not believe in the Deity of Christ or His resurrection or the Trinity. Here is a brief quote fromthe article posted for my reading:
 
Jefferson did not believe in the divinity of Jesus, but he had high esteem for Jesus' moral teachings, which he viewed as the "principles of a pure deism, and juster notions of the attributes of God, to reform [prior Jewish] moral doctrines to the standard of reason, justice & philanthropy, and to inculcate the belief of a future state."[36] Jefferson did not believe in miracles. He made his own condensed version of the Gospels, omitting Jesus' virgin birth, miracles, divinity, and resurrection, primarily leaving only Jesus' moral philosophy, of which he approved. This compilation was published after his death and became known as the Jefferson Bible."
 
The above disbeliefs seem to be to be of a person that believed Jesus to be a good moral man but not the Son of God. If I am correct, I am no confused in what I have concluded about Thomas Jefferson and his beliefs.
 
The Jefferson Bible is a interesting piece of work in and of itself.
 
Most folks today call the above beliefs of that of a good moral man.
 
If you choose to think I'm confused about what I have studied about Thomas Jefferson that is fine.
 
HisAlone, No I haven't answered your question in response #20 simply because I have no idea what it takes for you to accept anything that is written as proof that a statement in correct.
 
As for:

(1 Cor. 14:32 through 1 Cor. 14:33 (KJV) "32And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

I am of the opinion you have pulled this passage out of context in light of what the word confusion means in this context.

Don

 
 
 

Reply
 Message 30 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/14/2008 12:27 PM
I've learned over the years that any time a person uses "but" in a statement it reverses the first part of the sentence.
 
I don't want to eat this pie BUT I will do it anyway.
 

Reply
 Message 31 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/14/2008 12:30 PM
Now you say the Thomas Jefferson was a Christian deist
 
No one said that, and they are not going to say that because it is not true.  Jefferson believed in God, but of course was not saved.  Belief in God precludes being an agnostic or an atheist.  That was and is the point and I don't know why you don't understand that.

Reply
 Message 32 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameDon__42Sent: 11/14/2008 3:37 PM

MrWonder,

How about we back this discussion train up a bit. If you do not believe that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian why did you post #28 quoting:

"In summary, then, Jefferson was a deist because he believed in one God, in divine providence, in the divine moral law, and in rewards and punishments after death; but did not believe in supernatural revelation. He was a Christian deist because he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. He was not an orthodox Christian because he rejected, among other things, the doctrines that Jesus was the promised Messiah and the incarnate Son of God. Jefferson's religion is fairly typical of the American form of deism in his day."

If you do not consider Thomas Jefferson to have been a Christian why the above quote?

I have maintained that the the neither the Declaration of Independence or Constitution of the United States are Scriptural in nature but humanistic in nature. You on the other hand say you believe the Constitution to be molded on Biblical principles. We disagree, one of us is correct and the other incorrect or we are both incorrect.

As yet I have not found anyway that I can prove anything to either you or HisAlone.

I don't understand how a document can be born out of "Christian principles" when the content uses humanistic terminology.

Don


Reply
 Message 33 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/14/2008 3:46 PM
Don, read the whole quote (it's not my quote; it's the historians quote).
 
It says he believed in one God, in divine providence, in the divine moral law, in rewards and punishments after death, etc.  They call him a Christian deist BECAUSE - that BECAUSE is important - BECAUSE he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion, etc., and I am telling you that because he saw the Christian religion as the "highest expression of natural religion" he did indeed incorporate Christian thought and imagery into his documents.  I never said he was a Christian - he was not.  He was a deist, and believed in on God, in divine providence, etc., and believed that Christianity IS THE HIGHEST EXPRESSION of natural religion.  That doesn't make him saved but it DOES make him NOT AN AGNOSTIC and NOT AN ATHEIST.
 
I maintain the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution (which Jefferson DID NOT write, but James Monroe did most of it) are Biblically based.

Reply
 Message 34 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameDon__42Sent: 11/14/2008 4:15 PM
MrWonder,
 
I know that your quote is from someone else. I agree Thomas Jefferson was a deist as such no Atheist but could have still been an agnostic.
 
Most likely James Madison did the most work on the drafting of the Constitution since he is called the Father of the Constitution.
 
As I said before we disagree on the the type of document the Constitution is.
 
Don

Reply
 Message 35 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/14/2008 4:34 PM

Authors of the Constitution

Gouverneur Morris of Pennsylvania was put in charge of the committee to draft the final copy of the Constitution. Other men who had much to do with writing the Constitution included John Dickinson, Gouverneur Morris, Edmund Randolph, Roger Sherman, James Wilson, and George Wythe. Morris was given the task of putting all the convention's resolutions and decisions into polished form. Morris actually "wrote" the Constitution. The original copy of the document is preserved in the National Archives Building in Washington, D.C.

Jacob Shallus who, at the time, was assistant clerk of the Pennsylvania State Assembly, and whose office was in the same building in which the Convention was held, was given the task of engrossing the Constitution prior to its being signed.

You can get more information from the World Book Encyclopedia on line and these sites: http://hometown.aol.com/we4amhis/AmGov.html http://www.teacheroz.com/colonies.htm

Here is more input from others:

  • The U.S. Constitution is the work of several men, directly and indirectly. The three most notable persons whose work influenced the Constitution but who were not involved in its writing are Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine. The group of men involved in the writing of the Constitution are generally referred to as the "framers".

  • No one person wrote it. Twelve of the thirteen states sent delegates to a convention to revise the Articles of Confederation and the whole convention worked on it. After the political questions were all resolved a committee of style was formed to put everything into formal words. It is generally accepted that Gouverneur Morris produced most of the language included in the final draft from the Committee of Style. Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was in France as a diplomat during the Constitutional Convention

  • Actually the man really known for writing the Constitution was actually Mr. James Madison... but there might really be more who helped him write it.

  • No one person wrote the Constitution of the United States. The entire membership of the Constitutional Convention, at least those delegates who stayed for the whole thing, contributed to its development. When all of the ideas had been hashed out a Committee of Style was appointed to set it out in proper legal language. Gouvernor Morris did most of the committee's work, so he is responsible for most of the specific phrasing in the constitution but, as said, they had all contributed to the ideas therein.

Reply
 Message 36 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/14/2008 4:38 PM
It is impossible from Jefferson's life to label him an agnostic:
 
atheist:  someone who denies the existence of God

agnostic:  someone who claims that they do not know or are unable to know whether God exists.

theist:  a believer in a personal God.

deist:  a religious philosophy and movement that derives the existence and nature of God from reason and personal experience
 
Only deist and a modified form of theist fit Jefferson.  He was not an atheist nor an agnostic.

Reply
 Message 37 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameDon__42Sent: 11/15/2008 6:07 PM
I agree that Thomas Jefferson was most likely a deist.
 
We still do not agree on the type of documents the Declaration of Independence or Constitution of the United States are.

Reply
 Message 38 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/15/2008 7:31 PM
Hi Don,
 
And we don't have to agree on the documents, do we?  But isn't it very pleasant to be able to discuss them?  I do enjoy it and hope you do too, and do not find it necessary to be in perfect agreement on their nature just to enjoy the discussion.
 
Did you see our thanks to you for your service in the military?
 
MrW

Reply
 Message 39 of 39 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameDon__42Sent: 11/16/2008 1:03 PM
MrW,
 
If you mean Steve's Veterans Day article, Yes very nicely put.

I do enjoy a discussion about the Declaration of Independence or Constitution of the United States, yes I enjoy it very much.

No, we do not have to agree.

Be Blessed,

Don


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