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| | From:  Chloe-Cat (Original Message) | Sent: 3/2/2008 12:04 PM |
My gr-gr-grandmother Margaret Donohue was born in County Clare (a conflicting record says Cork) in 1842-1844, and came to New South Wales, Australia before her marriage to Joseph Steer in Carcoar 1866. Margaret Donohue/Steer's marriage certificate leaves her parents names blank. She died aged 83 in 1927. Her death certificate doesn't name her mother and only has the name Donohue for her father.
She came to Australia sponsored by Caroline Chisholm, and I am wondering if anyone knows of records of the young girls and families that Caroline Chisholm so actively encouraged to come to Australia in the mid 1800's? Or can anyone please suggest another way of finding any information?
Debbie | |
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Wow,
A bunch of Donohues with the right spelling in Clare ay, and Thomas's among them. Thanks Mike. I didn't know the Griffiths valuation was done in different years between 1848 & 1864. To have a year of 1855 on the list is very useful. My quick searches of Griffiths last year didn't produce anything like this, but now I know to look for a year and place. And I'd never have known that all those placenames were in Clare.
Thank you Marian for continuing to look for Caroline Chisholm information. Naturally, I'm cautiously excited and will check back regularly. Very regularly.
Debbie |
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Hi Debbie Mike has had a reply from the Clare Library re Caroline Chisholm as follows: "My apologies for the delay in getting back to you on your recent query re Caroline Chisolm, aka Caroline Jones, 1808 - 1877. Apparently in her lifetime she was known as 'The Emigrant's Friend.' I read up a little on her in the biographical dictionaries after your query, and she certainly seemed to be a Victorian power-house of energy and dedication. She seemed to be involved in immigration into Australia from 1841 onwards until approximately 1866, when she returned to England. She apparently helped many thousands of people to emigrate successfully to Australia in these decades. There was a book written about her in 1852, "Mackenzie's Memoirs of Caroline Chisolm". As for records of girls and women she helped immigrate into Australia (she also helped men immigrate), I do not know where the records might be. Possibly, you could try the National Archives in Kew, London http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ or possibly one of the major Australian genealogical societies might know of the whereabouts of Chisolm papers, the Society of Australian Genealogists, http://www.sag.org.au/ or the Public Record Office of Victoria, http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/ " Marian Manager |
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Thank you Marian,
I hadn't noticed your message till just now. There is a lot written about Caroline Chisholm, so much so that any search for those she may have helped only finds information about her. At first I was interested in what she did and devoured it all, but now I find myself becoming irritated that she is being put on a pedestal and seen as having more value than the people she helped, while my g-g-grandmother's life doesn't appear to have been recorded at all. We have the funny habit of creating heroes and forgetting the ordinary people.
The nationalarchives.gov.uk doesn't seem to have anything I can access. I'm looking for an immigration to the state of NSW so the Public Records Office of Victoria is unlikely to help, but I'll try. The best bet may be the Society of Australian Genealogists, although I think I may have to be a paid member to make an enquiry through them. I'll give them all a proper go anyway, thanks Marian.
Debbie |
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Hi Debbie,Sometime in the near future When im able to get to Kew.I intend Checking Some lists For one of our Members.I will Also find out About These Records For you Mike |
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Debbie if you Can Leave a Message for Suzy,Maybe she can Check this Family out In her Family History Centre Mike |
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Thank you Mike. I really hope there are some records to be found and I appreciate you looking for me. I'll contact Suzie as you suggest.
Debbie |
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How do I leave a message for Suzi please Mike? I've looked around the site for an email address or somewhere to post a message to her without luck.
Debbie |
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Hi Debbie Just post your message on this board, and we will ask Suzy to reply to you. She is one of our managers in Australia. Marian Manager |
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| This may be your Margaret. You know family names perhaps to place her sisters if she had any. Also if this is Margaret it explains the reason no parents names listed. This was famine time, parents fed the kids and went without, the simple cold killed. Margaret may well still have benefitted from Caroline Chisholm's school or perhaps worked for her. The first port of call where the passengers disembarked was their "destination" though many went on further on same or other ship around and up coast. She may have found employment that enabled her to get up north to NSW and then be taken in by Caroline before she started getting boatloads of girls herself. bye Suzanne |
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Thanks for the reply Suzanne,
I'll bookmark those Sth Aust. passenger list sites - I haven't used them before. The information I have about Margaret Donohue, my grandmother's grandmother, sets her birth year at 1843/44. She was married at age 22 in 1866, and died aged 83 in 1927. This would mean she was only 5 or 6 yo in 1849 when the Elgin sailed, rather than 17, so it looks like the passenger there couldn't be our Margaret.
A few brief family notes put together I think by Margaret's grandchildren, say she was born in Cork, but her death certificate says she was born in Clare, which I think could be more reliable, with her oldest son being the informant. The notes say she was sponsored by Caroline Chisholm and crossed the Blue Mountains in a bullock dray to get to Carcoar, central NSW, where she married in 1866. This makes me think it is likely she arrived in Sydney, but as you say she may have gone to Sydney later.
There are two possible Margarets listed in the Assisted Immigrants arriving in Sydney 1860-79, other Donohues on the same ship are shown here too in case they are related -
State Records NSW online -
1. DONOGHUE, Margaret, Age:17 (b1842/43), Vessel - Hannah More, 1860 [reel 2139]
DONOGHUE, Edmund, Age:20, Hannah More, 1860
DONOGHUE, Ellen, 23, Hannah More, 1860
2. DONOHOE, Margaret, Age:16 (b1843/44), Vessel - Dirigo, 1860 [reel 2139]
DONOHOE, John, Age:35, Dirigo, 1860
DONOHOE, Julia, Age:22, Dirigo, 1860
The second Margaret seems more likely to me. Firstly, the spelling is closer to the spelling given on her marriage and death certificates of "Donohue". And the John Donohue travelling with her may be her brother(?), as she had a John Donohue as witness at her wedding. The first listing includes an Edmund and Ellen, names which don't appear anywhere in our family.
Passengers into Victoria (PROV index) -
1. DONOHOE, MARGARET Age:20or22 (b1842/44) Date: MAR 1864 Ship:COLDSTREAM
2. DONOHUE, MARGARET Age:19 (b1842) Date:AUG 1861 Ship:ATALANTA
What I'm interested in finding is any records of the people Caroline Chisholm may have sponsored, so I can find more about where Margaret came from and who her parents may be. If she was an orphan, the records may show that as well (as you have found on the SA lists). Do any records exist do you know Suzanne? I'd welcome your advice.
Debbie |
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| | | From: taboa | Sent: 9/25/2008 3:04 PM |
Hi Debbie, I am interested in your Donohue connection. I gather you don't have Margaret's shipping or even have confirmation that she wasn't born in Australia, notwithstanding that she was supposed to have arrived with some assistance of Caroline Chisholm. I have a Donohue / Donoghue connection, but it is through a lady who arrived in Australia as Bridget Daboa, who married a Benjamin Allen in Sydney in 1842. When 2 of her children died they gave their mother's maiden name as Donohue. Interestingly, one of her children married the daughter of a McCabe. Bridget's three daughters have apparently disappeared, one of them was born in 1843, but as Sarah. Thought I would add my brick wall to the melting pot. Kind regards, Warren |
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| | | From: taboa | Sent: 10/1/2008 3:28 AM |
Hi Debbie, Whilst researching the Vandenbergh family who (supposedly) arrived on the Hanover in 1854, I found a comment in the Shipping Gazette as follows: "She brings 305 immigrants, 196 of whom have come out under Mrs Chisholm's arrangement of assisted immigration". I shall have a look to see if I can find Margaret on the passenger's list, but if you beat me to it, could you please have a look for the Vandenbergh family. Regards, Warren |
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Hello Warren, A reply I sent a few days ago hasn't appeared, so I'll keep a copy of this one and email you if it doesn't appear. I've found good information on my Margaret Donohue/Steer in a chance meeting with a distant cousin in NSW last week. I found the name Anne Regan on a microfiche passenger list as the person who paid the deposit for Margaret's trip to Australia, and this proved to be her older sister. The Caroline Chisholm connection is yet to be found. I'm searching the NSW BD&M indexes to find the sister's family. It appears they are the same family of Regans who married two sisters of my grandmother's a couple of generations later - likely second cousins. I still need to confirm this. Anne Donohue/Regan came to Australia in 1858 with her husband and son. She is said to be from Conleigh (Clonlea?), Co Clare. Margaret arrived in Sydney on the ship Hannah More on 6 May 1860, aged 17, Housemaid, from Clare, could read and write, Catholic. I even have a photo of her now. Warren, where do you access your shipping records/ Shipping Gazettes? I've only realised that the microfiche passenger lists and other reels hold more information than the online records. And for your three daughters of Bridget, is it possible they ended up in state care? I've recently found a family of sisters for a friend's tree, who were wards in the late 1870-80's even though their mother was still alive. They later changed their surnames, apparently to avoid the stigma of having being in care. State records should have the information. Thanks for the interest Warren. I hope your brick wall soon begins to crumble as mine is. Debbie |
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| | | From: taboa | Sent: 10/2/2008 12:47 AM |
Hi Debbie, The shipping gazette is online through the nla site (national library of australia). I am now interested in your Regan's, and as you know I also have a McCabe connection. My William Allen married Anne Harding the daughter of Ashley Harding and Catherine McCabe. Ashley Harding and Catherine McCabe married in 1857 at the residence of Timothy Regan at Toolijooa near Gerringong. I think Timothy's wife was Johanna ?? Let me know if you find you have a connection to that Regan family. It is possible that the girls ended up in state care, but that would have been in the 1850's, which makes it a lot harder to search for them. Cheers, Warren |
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Hello Warren, We're getting a bit off topic discussing Regans here. At this stage, I'm only beginning to research my new leads so probably won't be much help yet. Gerringong seems a long way from the John Regan I've found in central NSW Carcoar/Blayney/Orange areas (b abt 1830, marr Co Clare 1853, immigrated 1858 with wife Anne and son Patrick) but I'll keep it in mind when searching. The McCabe connection is also a long way from my McCabes who lived in central Victoria, but I'll keep an eye out. We should probably email privately with any further comparison of notes. Debbie |
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