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| Joseph Greaves was born 28th Jan 1872 his christening was 21st April 1872 at St Chads Rochdale. He is missing from the 1881 Census, the next Census we have him on is 1901 with his family as married age 29 no wife, so he must have been maybe living somewhere else. In 1902 he was a witness at his sisters wedding. I did find on the 1891 Census a Joseph Greaves (right age) living at 2 Gorden St, Rochdale, Castleton Further, he is a Cotton Operative. Head as Thomas Manders age 66, there are 3 boarders age 3, 22, & 24, sister-in-law 7yrs as houshkeeper. Joseph is down as Adopted. Not sure if he's ours. Can anyone help with any sugestions where he may been in the missing years. Thankyou. Sheila | |
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Sheila - One of these two must be Joseph's marriage. They are the only two in Rochdale that would fit the timeframe. Marian Marriages Mar 1892 -------------------------------------------
GREAVES Joseph Rochdale 8e 28
HOWARTH Emily Rochdale 8e 28
PRIESTLEY Alice Rochdale 8e 28 ********************************
Marriages Dec 1892
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Greaves Joseph Rochdale 8e 39
HUNT Emma Rochdale 8e 39 |
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Sheila Regarding the entry on the 1891, this could possibly be your Joseph. It was not uncommon at that time for children to be adopted for various reasons such as work or the death of a parent. 1891
2 Gordon Street
Castleton Further
Thomas Marsden Widow 66
Joseph Greaves Adop 19 Cotton Operative
Betty Brierley Sister-in-law Housekeeper
Strangely, we found a Joseph Greaves married Mary A. Brierley in 1918. Not sure if any connection. Marriages Sep 1918 ------------------------------------- Brierley Mary A Greaves Rochdale 8e 96
Greaves Joseph Brierley Rochdale 8e 96 Marian |
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Sheila - Have searched and searched the censuses, trying quite a number of possible surnames which may have been mistranscribed. But to no avail. The most common reason for not finding ancestors on the census is mistranscription, and unfortunately this won't be put right until everyone has told Ancestry what these mistakes are. Marian |
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Sheila Since you have Joseph's sister's marriage certificate, it would be helpful for us to know her name, plus any other details of the family. We need as many clues as possible to solve the mystery. Marian |
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Hi Thank you for all your help. In answer to your questions. The Greaves family are. James Greaves married Jane Purdy in or around 1871 (have no record) Children Joseph B 28th Jan 1872. Elizabeth Ann Born 1873. William B Born 1875. Mary Ann Born 1877, *Betsy Born 1881. Ernest Born 1891. & Edith Born 1894. All the Children's Christening's were held at St Chads in Rochdale of which I have printed of copy's of Christing records from the IGI records, and have printed Birth certificate application forms for all except Elizabeth Ann from the Rochdale Register Office. Could be him on the 1891 at 2 Gorden St & Adopted. Joseph is down on the 1901 Census with his family, the Elizabeth Halesworth / Nalesworth is his Sister not wife it has her as daughted & married. Joseph was witness to his Sister *Betsy's Marrage to James Henry Holden on 28th June 1902. as for which one is Joseph's wife Emily Howarth or Emma Hunt, I don't know. the year is right for either and he would have been 20yrs. So where was Joseph from birth in 1872 till he pops up in 1901? this is all the information we have hope it helps. Thank you for anything you may find. Sheila |
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Hi Sheila Now that you have told me the names of Joseph's siblings, I have easily found the family on both the 1881 and the 1891 censuses. You did not say whether or not you had found the family yourself? However, Joseph was not with them on census night. He could have been living away for several reasons: because of work, staying with grandparents or other relatives on census night, etc. Again, his name could very easily have been written down wrongly. Here is what I found, anyway:
1881 Census
Residing at 9 Hurst Street, Castleton, Rochdale, Lancs. James Greaves Head Age 35 Occupation: Clogger born Oldham c1846
Jane Greaves Wife Age 26 born Manchester c1855
Children:
Elizabeth A. Age 8 Scholar born Bradford, Yorkshire c1873
William Greaves Age 6 Scholar born Rochdale c1875
Mary Ann Age 4 born Rochdale c1877 I notice that Elizabeth was born in Bradford. 1891 Census Residing at 5 Heywood Road, Castleton. James Greaves Head
Jane Greaves Wife
Children:
Eliza A. 18
William 16
Mary A. 14 b Shawforth
Betsy Age ??
Ernest 10 months b Castleton
Lodgers:
Thomas Clegg Age 60 Widower
James Carter Age 23 Clogger This time, Mary Ann is recorded as born in Shawforth. I am still searching for the elusive Joseph, so please keep checking back on here. Marian Manager
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Sheila It was not uncommon back in those days for a child to be brought up by an aunt and uncle, or sometimes by grandparents. This could be for financial reasons, and especially if the aunt and uncle had no children of their own as they would have been in a better position to rear a child. I know personally of cases like this. This doesn't help us to find Joseph, unfortunately. Marian Manager |
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Sheila If you have access to the censuses, then you could search for Joseph under other family surnames that you know. If not, let me know some family surnames and I can check for you. Marian Manager |
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Marian I have the Census James & Jane Greaves for 1881, 1891, &1901 I have found a on the 1861 Census Greaves William Head 55 Cotten Dresser Born Oldham Greaves Betty Wife 55 Born Oldham Greaves James Son 14 Cotton Cap Packer Born Oldham Address Beer Houses, Bridge eye Street, Dukinfield. 1971 Census all the family were Born in Backup and all were Cotton ? can't make it out Greaves George Head 55 Greaves Elizabeth Wife 50 Greaves James Son 23 Greaves Mary A Daughter 21 Greaves George Son 19 Greaves Margaret Daughter 17 Greaves Henry Son 13 Address Rochdale Road, Spotland The ages for James are right could one of these or both be related to our Greaves, and be Joseph's Grandparents? Joseph's mother was Jane Purdy befor she married James Greaves in 1871 at St chads Rochdale. I am in the next week going to send for Joseph's Birth Cert & marrige Cert for Joseph & Jane.they will give their fathers names. Thank you for all your help to date sheila |
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Hi Sheila Checking the 1861 entry that you found, it looks like it could be your family. The 1871 I am not so sure about, but you would have a better idea. The thing is that Bacup is a long way from Oldham, where James was supposed to have been born. (By the way, the George and James on here were Cotton Warpers, and the others Cotton Weavers). Marian Manager |
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Sheila This is the couple you found on the 1861, which I have now found in 1871. 1871 Census Residing at 5 Old Stock Road, Wardleworth, Rochdale, Lancs.
William Greaves Age 65 Woollen Weaver b Oldham
Betty Greaves Age 65 b Oldham
Also found on the same census, 1871: Residing at Horton Street, Shaw, Oldham, Lancs. James Greaves 32 Head Cotton Weaver b Crompton, Oldham c1839
Jane Greaves 26 Wife Cotton Weaver b Crompton c1845
Sarah Greaves 6 months Daughter b Crompton 1870 Baby Sarah would have been born about Sept/Oct 1870. I do realise James' birth is out by a few years, but all other details fit. Let me know what you think. And also do let us know when you get the certificates! Marian Manager |
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Marian Could the William & Betty Greaves found on the 1861 & 1871 Census are an Aunt& Uncle? Got the Marriage certificate to-day Date Name Age Condition Job Address 9/1/1871 James Greaves 21 Blachelor Mill Operative Oldham Rd Father's name Job James Greaves Carder Date Name Age Condition Job Address 9/1/1871 Jane Purdy 19 Spincer Oldham Rd Father's name Job Thomas Purdy Solidier They were married at St chads Rochdale. I will have to see if I can find details so I can get Jane's birth cert. Have you any idear how we can find out any information on Thomas Purdy. Thank you sheila |
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Matian I have looked on the Lancashite B M D and found a Josephs Greaves Born in 1850 which is the right year, in Compton Oldham Mother's Dawson. This could be the father of our Joseph Sheila |
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Hello Sheila William and Betty Greaves could be aunt and uncle, but you would need proof with certs. Now re Jane Purdy, this is the only birth listed in Lancs. BMD from 1848 - 1860, although of course they may not have all been transcribed yet: 1858
PURDY Mary Jane Oldham Above Town Oldham ASQUITH OAT/39/280. Her mother was Asquith. Re James, as you are not sure of his birth year, I would not narrow it down too much. He says on the marriage certificate that he was 21, which if corrrect would mean he was born 1849 -- unless his birthday fell in the first 9 days of January, which is against the odds. But he may have been born as early as 1846 going by the censuses. Anyway, I found these births in Oldham from 1846 - 1850: 1846 GREAVES James Royton Oldham TRAVIS ROY/5/478
GREAVES James Uppermill, Saddleworth Oldham BOOTH UPP/5/385
1847
GREAVES James William Uppermill, Saddleworth Oldham JONES UPP/5/373
GREAVES James Crompton Oldham SCHOLES CR/5/426
GREAVES James Oldham Above Town Oldham CLEGG OAT/16/444 1848 GREAVES James Oldham Below Town Oldham DUNKERLEY OBT/20/218
1850
GREAVES James Crompton Oldham DAWSON CR/7/119
GREAVES James Crompton Oldham GREAVES CR/7/274
Marian Manager |
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Sheila I will be checking the censuses for the two families, and will post a message when I find something. Marian Manager |
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