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| | From:  rubyangels18 (Original Message) | Sent: 11/4/2008 3:39 AM |
I am looking for any information on TOPHAM George, born c1790 England. I know very little of him only that he had his own business at 9 Boar Lane in Leeds. He was a Saddler, trunk maker, and horse and gig letter. He had a son George born abt 1819 who went to Australia 1841-1843 and married BLACKSHAW Jemima in Goulburn NSW. I know it's not much to go on but am hoping he might be familiar to someone. Many thanks Lea |
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Hello again Lea Well I've found what I believe to be George's parents and siblings on the 1841 census, as follows: George Topham b: 1796c Yorkshire - head - saddler & livery stable keeper Eliza Topham b: 1796c Ireland Ann Topham b: 1796c Yorkshire Matilda Topham b: 1826c Yorkshire Hannah Topham b: 1826c Yorkshire Their residence was Butt's Court, Leeds. Bear in mind there are no records on the 1841 census of what relation each individual is to the head of the family but in this instance I guess Eliza is George's wife and Ann, Matilda and Hannah are his daughters. No mention of son George. HOWEVER I have found these three daughter's birth records along with what I also believe to be that of George's, and also some other children. Obviously we can't be 100% certain they were all siblings but I will post below what I have found. Kay Manager |
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Firstly I'll list the birth records of the three daughters: ANN TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 27 DEC 1819 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England MATILDA TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 09 JAN 1823 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England HANNAH TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 13 JUN 1831 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England Also bear in mind that in the 1841 census ages could be shown to be rounded up or down by as much as five years - hence the reason why the birth records vary in birth years to the census. On the basis that the above three children were christened at St Peter, Leeds I feel the following is certainly the correct George and possibly, after him, other siblings: GEORGE TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 13 APR 1817 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England ELIZA TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 12 SEP 1814 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England JESSEY TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: MAR 1826 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England WILLIAM TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: AUG 1830 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England FREDERICK TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 16 OCT 1828 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England SUSANNA TOPHAM - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 19 JUL 1815 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England Naturally we can't be 100% certain these children had the same parents but I will check to see if they show on the 1841/1851 censuses and let you know. That may very well give us a better indication of if they are relevant. Kay Manager |
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I can't find George Topham b: 1796c on the 1851 census but have found what I think is his wife. She is a visitor with a family headed by Richard Cooper, a choirister at York Cathedral. They are resident at Bilton Street, York St Cuthbert. Eliza is recorded as "widow" and I have found several death records for George Tophams between 1841 and 1851. I'm going to delve further to see if there are any other entries which I've, so far, missed for Eliza in the 1851 and also any of the other children. Kay Manager |
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No luck with the other children on the 1841 census but have found Matilda, now married on the 1851. She married Charles Bell in the September quarter of 1842 in Wakefield and at the time of the 1851 census were living as follows: Charles Bell b: 1808c Leeds, Yorkshire - head Matilda Bell b: 1823c Leeds, Yorkshire - wife George A Bell b: 1845 Headingley, Nr. Leeds, Yorkshire - son Address: 13 Norfolk Terrace, Kensington. Charles' Occupation: Stocks & Shares Broker. Incidentally, this is their son, George's birth record: Births Sep 1844 (>99%)
| | Bell | George Arthur | | Leeds | 23 | 315 | Kay Manager |
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Well Lea, I hope I've not bombared you with this. Have a look at what I've found, digest and then let me know if (a) it's helpful and (b) where you'd like me to go from here! Kay Manager |
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Kay, Thankyou for all of that, I will go over it all and see where to go from here. It all looks absolutely great and very helpful. I have found an entry in Leeds Directory of Trades & Professions for 1837. Topham Geo, saddler, trunk maker, and horse and gig letter, 9 Boar lane, h 5 Springfield place. I am assuming 'h' means home address, but not sure, or perhaps another business address. Do you think this will be useful? Also a newspaper clipping ( I have attached file clipping) from the Leeds Mercury October 2, 1841. We know then that he was alive at least til then. Will look for some death notices. Many thanks for your help Lea |
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Hello again Lea Well, any information such as addresses can certainly be helpful, but even in those days families used to move around and it could just be that George moved from one place to another just before or just after the 1841 census was taken. I don't know for sure but like you I would imagine the "h" refers to a home address though. I will wait to hear further from you as to which direction you'd like me to look next. Kay Manager |
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Hello Kay, Thankyou for all the wonderful info. I agree with you that they could be his children, I think one more also is a possibility , Arthur, born 1830. It seems there is either another 2 George Tophams' who were saddlers or, he had more than one business. I have been in touch with my cousin and she is going to check the church records for George & Jemima marriage at the State Archives in the hopes of finding Georges' mothers name. Hopefully it will be Eliza then we will be able to confirm the data and know where to go from there. Your help has been terrific thankyou so much, I finally feel like I am getting somewhere with this family. I will be in touch once I get info from the State Archives, hopefully it will shed some light. Many thanks Leanne |
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| | | From: ableliz | Sent: 11/9/2008 3:24 AM |
Lea, I have been trying to find his arrival to access extra records on the immigration indexes but so far no luck. May have arrived in any state George TOPHAM registered in 1877 place Goulburn father William mother Rosina will keep looking to see if I can find his arrival for you Liz |
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| | | From: ableliz | Sent: 11/9/2008 3:37 AM |
Lea, Not sure if I have already given you this info Info from Old Goulburn cemetery NSW George TOPHAM died 14.10.1875 aged 56 years native of Leeds, England husband of Jemima Jemima TOPHAM died 15.8.1883 aged 52 years wife of George also buried in same place are two of their sons Reg. CE109 Old Goulburn cemetery Looks like his death was not registered until two years after he died. Liz |
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Hi Liz, Yes thank you, you have given me the info before...I am tracing his father George and family in Leeds. Kay has helped me find what we hope are his family, I just need to see if I can find George (2) marriage to Jemima here in Aus in the hopes that his mothers' name is stated in the old records. There are many Tophams' in Leeds and all I had to go on was that his fathers' name was George a saddler in Leeds which I got from his death transcript...no mother was stated. Lookforward to being a part of your new yuku site. Lea |
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Liz, For my George (2) immigration, I have found difficulty finding him. He just seems to have appeared in Goulburn abt 1848. On his death transcript 1875, states his time in Australian colonies 33 years. So, he could have come over anytime from 1841/2. Would be nice to find him on immigration but I don't think I am going to. Thanks Lea |
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| | | From: ableliz | Sent: 11/10/2008 2:25 AM |
Lea, So the death registered in 1877 in Goulburn with parents listed above is not him? His death did not come up on the index when I did a search only the one listed in 1877. I have checked the bounty immigrants index with no luck and nsw, victoria, q'land & sa immigratio He may have come steerage class and often they are not listed by name on the records Liz |
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Liz, I don't have one listed for 1877, only George 1875 and his grandson George Frederick in 1878, Goulburn with parents William TOPHAM & Rosina JONES, my gggrandparents. It is George 1875's father, also George, that I am trying to track down in Leeds. It is sooo confusing with all these Georges'. George 1875 came out here somewhere from 1841/2-1848. He just seemed to turn up in 1848 in Goulburn when he married Jemima BLACKSHAW. As far as I know at this stage he did not come out here with his parents...mind you, this is not 100% at this point as may have evidence of his family in Leeds with info that Kay got put together with some newspaper articles I found on NSW State Library. Lea |
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oops I forgot to thank you Liz for looking into all those immigration indexes for me, that was great. Well, that leaves WA, which is difficult isn't it? I would say it would have been steerage then. It is a shame they didn't always record the information for all the passengers.Appreciate the help. Many thanks Lea  |
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