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| | From: ©Sha (Original Message) | Sent: 4/20/2005 7:44 PM |
Trying to post and keep under one thread as much info as possible on these pills..good or bad. We've had so many wonderful personal stories and contributions on Buprenorphine and the like. Seems doctors are not quite there yet when it comes to all there is to be known about them so while these theads are..by no means the same as professional medical advice..they are extremely helpful in comparing symptoms and experiences. Allowing us to go back to our doctors armed with better questions perhaps. Pill unhooks heroin's claws, but few get it (March 26, 2005) �?Duane Baldwin had lost his house. He lost his wife. He lost his two children.
In Baldwin's new makeshift home, a cardboard box deep in the bowels of a building's basement, he had a strategy. If only he could just starve himself to death, he could leave it all behind. "I'd stop eating for a week, hoping it would happen. I didn't even have enough money to buy enough drugs (to kill myself)," said Baldwin, 51, of Rochester. That was a couple of years ago, and Baldwin was at the dead end of a trail that had led him from a regular family life to painkillers, heroin addiction, jail and homelessness. Now he is well-dressed in a blue buttoned-down shirt, pen and eyeglasses neatly tucked into a pocket. His piercing, sky-blue eyes are clear �?because he is clean and sober for the first time in more than 15 years. His salvation lies in a tiny orange pill with the long name that few have heard of.
"I would have never gotten through treatment without buprenorphine," said Baldwin, who is apartment hunting after completing a yearlong drug rehabilitation program at the Open Door Mission. Buprenorphine, approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2002, was expected to be revolutionary: Not only could people addicted to heroin and opium-derived painkillers use it outside a clinic to curb cravings, but also patients couldn't overdose or get high on it. But most addicts in the Rochester area do not have access to buprenorphine.
Because of a federal law already on the books about narcotic therapy, only 30 people per medical practice can get it �?cutting out hundreds who could get treated at large institutions such as Strong Memorial Hospital. And many primary care physicians, who can prescribe the drug by taking an eight-hour course, won't sign up �?largely for fear of the kind of patients it might bring to their practices. But a bill currently in Congress would wipe out the 30-patient rule. And the handful of local doctors who prescribe buprenorphine hope their experience will influence others. There are no local statistics on the number of opiate addicts in our community. But judging by the more than 200 people in the Rochester area waiting to get the only other widely used drug available, methadone, there is no lack of need. "If only we can expand the treatment setting to include outpatient and primary care offices, then we're going to help more people," said Dr. George Nasra, medical director of behavioral health in primary care program at Unity Health System. But even Unity is not prescribing the drug yet.
How it works
Buprenorphine (bue-pre-NOR-feen) is a partial opiate that has been around for years as a painkiller. But it could be administered only intravenously and it usually wasn't strong enough to do the job. It was used to treat addiction in Europe for more than 20 years before the United States approved it in pill form in October 2002. The drug works by binding to receptors in the brain that have become addicted to opiates �?binding just enough to stop cravings, but not enough for the person to get high. For the last 30 or so years, methadone was the only prominent drug treatment available. But methadone is strictly regulated. The drug is highly potent, so someone can get high or overdose on it. Therefore, patients must go to a clinic and take methadone every day —�?a problem for anyone trying to start work again or for those who live in rural areas. With buprenorphine, patients can take it in the privacy of their home �?thereby avoiding the hassle, and shame, of going to a clinic. But taking buprenorphine is not as simple as popping a pill. Patients also must go through an outpatient program and counseling to prove they are serious about quitting. The FDA approved another drug, levo-alpha acetyl methadol, in 1993. But prescriptions waned in light of concerns that it caused heart problems.
"(Methadone) is disruptive, it's stigmatizing. It keeps patients in contact with an influx (at the clinics) of actively using people. Those can be triggers to relapse," said Dr. Gary Horwitz, medical director of Westfall Associates, an outpatient drug and alcohol program. Horwitz prescribes buprenorphine. Doctors disagree about how well buprenorphine works for longtime heroin users. Someone might need methadone doses as high as 200 milligrams a day to stop his cravings, while the maximum dose of buprenorphine is about 32 milligrams a day. Physicians who prescribe buprenorphine locally say the drug is incredibly effective, particularly for those addicted to opiate-based prescription drugs such as Vicodin and Percocet. As demand for pain relief increases, so too does users' dependence on the drugs that help them. Painkiller abuse is second only to marijuana abuse in the United States, according to 2002 statistics. And while heroin use has reportedly plateaued, Americans abusing drugs containing the opiate oxycodone (brand name OxyContin) during their lifetime climbed from 11.8 million in 2002 to 13.7 million in 2003. It took one injury
Duane Baldwin, a graduate of the old Edison high school, has an associate's degree from Rochester Institute of Technology. He had a family and a good job. But everything changed after the machine maintenance worker nearly severed his hand in an accident at employer Star Market Bakery in 1984. For three years, Baldwin was on Percocet, Tylenol with codeine, morphine �?anything to help him cope with painful bone grafts to reconstruct his wrist. But soon, he wasn't just taking them for his wrist. Baldwin saw multiple doctors or visited emergency rooms to replenish his supply of painkillers. Then in 1989, a co-worker hooked him onto something even stronger �?heroin. "Everything was gone. The pain was gone," Baldwin said.
He went into rehab in 1994, but it would be the first of many times he would try to get clean and fail. Once Baldwin started writing bad checks, it would also be one of many times he spent in jail for minor offenses. His wife left and took his two small children. He also lost the house he was renting on Scottsville Road and all of his belongings. But somehow he made his way to MainQuest on West Main Street, now DePaul addiction treatment center, which encouraged him to try recovery again. Baldwin got into the Open Door Mission's treatment program and was prescribed buprenorphine by Dr. Joseph Mancini, now a consulting physician at DePaul. Baldwin eventually learned he was suffering from hepatitis C and a blood disorder called hemochromatosis. He was likely self-medicating with drugs all those years to combat his symptoms. Baldwin is on disability now because of his medical conditions. Because of the pain from those illnesses, Baldwin said, he would have never been able to quit opiates without a drug replacement. Now, Baldwin just hopes his children might read his story and get in touch with him. Once his wife left, Baldwin lost touch with where they all went. He hasn't seen his children in four years. But he still wears a large cross around his neck that his daughter, Heather, now 17, got him years ago. "I want to be on my own. I know I can handle it," said Baldwin. "I just want to start my life over again."
Slow to react
There are 26 doctors in the 585 area code who have received training to prescribe buprenorphine. However, many of those doctors are not prescribing it. Nasra is one of four doctors at Unity Health System who have had the training but is not prescribing buprenorphine. He said it's a long, bureaucratic process to start prescribing a new treatment within the health system. Dr. Syed Mustafa, a psychiatrist with Unity, said he got the training because it was offered at a conference he attended. However, he admits he's not comfortable dealing with the addicted population; he thinks some people might not be as serious about quitting as they should be to use the drug. Another Monroe County doctor, who does prescribe buprenorphine, declined to be named for fear his regular patients would stop coming to his office.
However, most doctors have prescription-drug addicts in their practice but choose to ignore it, said Dr. Norman Wetterau, a family practitioner and buprenorphine prescriber in Nunda, Livingston County. Nancy Adams, executive director of the Monroe County Medical Society, also supports more physicians being trained.
Many primary care doctors think they aren't qualified to deal with such a population. But drug treatment programs say it would free up slots if some patients' own doctors took over the prescriptions. "This should be something a doctor in every locale should have a little experience in," said Dr. Paul Updike, medical director of the Pathways methadone clinic in both Buffalo and Rochester. "It's better than nothing." But what participating doctors hope for most is that the federal government repeals the requirement allowing only 30 people on buprenorphine per practice. The law was enacted five years ago to regulate narcotic use in treating opiate addicts. The bill is currently being considered in both the House and Senate. If not for the rule, Dr. Gloria Baciewicz, director of Strong Recovery at Strong hospital, said the practice could be treating hundreds of patients. She said Strong Recovery turns away dozens of calls a week because it's already full. "The benefits to society would be much greater without making it difficult and putting these kind of artificial limits on it," said Horwitz, of Westfall Associates. "I'm close to being full. It's going to be terrible for us to be turning people away." [email protected] Source: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050326/NEWS01/503260325/1002/NEWS |
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| | From: ©Sha | Sent: 4/20/2005 7:46 PM |
Heroin addicts clamor for hard-to-get medicine Michael RubinkamAssociated Press Apr. 19, 2005 12:58 PM WILKES-BARRE, Pa. - Krystal began using heroin when she was 14 years old, and it didn't take long for her to become hooked. The teen dropped out of school, lost a ton of weight and hocked her belongings to support a $200 a day habit.
Now 18, Krystal said she is drug-free, holds down a job, attends beauty school and cares for her toddler son. She credits a relatively new medication called buprenorphine with plucking her from heroin's grasp.
"Amazing," "incredible" and "lifesaving" are a few of the words addicts use to describe buprenorphine, which blocks heroin cravings. The problem is that relatively few can get it, and health professionals are pressuring the government to expand access. Available in this country since late 2002, buprenorphine is an alternative to methadone, long the primary treatment for heroin addiction. It is also used to treat addictions to prescription painkillers like OxyContin, Percocet and Vicodin. Doctors say buprenorphine has many advantages over methadone, including that it is longer acting, more difficult to overdose on and easier to withdraw from. "It has been extraordinarily effective in the patients we have given it to," said psychiatrist Herbert Kleber of Columbia University, who started one of the first buprenorphine programs in the nation. Addicts, meanwhile, say "bupe" gives them a feeling of clearheadedness they don't get with methadone. They can be treated in the privacy of their doctor's office, enabling them to avoid the stigma associated with public methadone clinics. But federal law limits individual doctors and medical practices to prescribing buprenorphine to 30 patients at a time, making the drug very hard to get in areas where heroin and prescription opiate abuse is high. For example, Krystal's doctor, J. Charles Lentini, says he has a waiting list of 185 addicts - many of whom are continuing to abuse drugs while they wait. Even more problematic is the restriction on large medical practices, which means that a health plan like Kaiser Permanente, the nation's largest not-for-profit health maintenance organization with 8.2 million members, can treat just a few hundred addicts at any one time nationwide. Bills pending in the House and Senate would eliminate the 30-patient restriction for group medical practices while retaining it for individual doctors. The Senate passed similar legislation last year, but it died in the House. "It clearly was not our intention" that addicts have less access to buprenorphine because they happen to go to a group practice, said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., co-author of the Drug Addiction Treatment Act of 2000. The law paved the way for doctors to prescribe buprenorphine but also established the 30-patient limit. Levin introduced the bill now pending. Meanwhile, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration said it is working on a regulatory fix to expand access to buprenorphine. "The group practice issue we see very much as a critical barrier," said Robert Lubran, the agency's director of pharmacologic therapies. Krystal said she spent eight agonizing months on Lentini's waiting list before finally getting her buprenorphine prescription last month. She entered detox two or three times while she waited, but returned to heroin each time she was discharged. "It was torture," said Krystal, whose boyfriend is on the waiting list. "I just wanted to feel normal again." Another of Lentini's patients, David, took heroin for six years and has been on buprenorphine for 13 months. The 43-year-old day trader said he "thanks God" that he got the drug when he did. David, who spent time in prison for accidentally killing a woman with his car while high, was among Lentini's first patients when he got out. "If there was a waiting list, I'd be in jail now, because my urine would be hot," he said. Both Krystal and David spoke on the condition that their last names not be used. The 30-patient limit is not the only barrier to access. Less than 1 percent of the nation's doctors - 4,850 out of 600,000 - have received Drug Enforcement Administration certification to prescribe buprenorphine, which comes in a pill and is sold under the brand names Suboxone and Subutex. The number of doctors actually prescribing the drug might be even smaller. Kleber said the manufacturer, Reckitt Benckiser, told him last year that only 1,500 had written a buprenorphine prescription. Reckitt Benckiser officials did not return a phone call. Many doctors shy away from treating heroin addicts because they believe those patients will be disruptive, Kleber and other experts said. "Most practicing physicians carry the baggage that much of society carries around the treatment of addictive disorders," said Dr. David Fiellin, chairman of the buprenorphine department at the American Society of Addiction Medicine. Also, buprenorphine is expensive, typically costing around $300 to $350 a month, and is not always covered by private insurance or by Medicare or Medicaid. On the Net: SAMHSA's buprenorphine site: http://buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/Source: |
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I have been treated with Bupe for the last month and a half, and whilst it is really awesome, and I haven't felt at all like using. I'm wondering if anyone has suffered from joint pain as a side effect? I would appreciate any discussion on side effects that members of this group have experienced on the treatment. THANKS! Ali |
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I was treated w/both bupe and Sebutex (or however you spell it) while I was in treatment. I did have joint pain- but I'm not sure if it was result of that or Hep C. |
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| | From: Sha_mtl | Sent: 6/8/2005 11:18 PM |
Hi..welcome to HofH..I'm not sure that I've heard of this being a side effect of Bup before. Maybe another memeber with more experience can answer this one. Are you on any other medications that could be casuing thisa..Lipitor..hormones, etc? Check the Drug Interactions link: From:SAMHSA Side Effects Side effects of buprenorphine are similar to those of other opioids and include nausea, vomiting, and constipation. Buprenorphine and buprenorphine/naloxone can precipitate the opioid withdrawal syndrome. Additionally, the withdrawal syndrome can be precipitated in individuals maintained on buprenorphine. Signs and symptoms of opioid withdrawal include: - Dysphoric mood
- Nausea or vomiting
- Muscle aches/cramps
- Lacrimation
- Rhinorrhea
- Pupillary dilation
- Sweating
- Piloerection
- Diarrhea
- Yawning
- Mild fever
- Insomnia
- Craving
- Distress/irritability
for a complete listing of drug interactions, contraindications, warnings, and precautions.
Buprenorphine..Subutex.. SIDE EFFECTS The safety of SUBOXONE has been evaluated in 497 opioid-dependent subjects. The prospective evaluation of SUBOXONE was supported by clinical trials using SUBUTEX (buprenorphine tablets without naloxone) and other trials using buprenorphine sublingual solutions. In total, safety data are available from 3214 opioid-dependent subjects exposed to buprenorphine at doses in the range used in treatment of opioid addiction. Few differences in adverse event profile were noted between SUBOXONE and SUBUTEX or buprenorphine administered as a sublingual solution. In a comparative study, adverse event profiles were similar for subjects treated with 16 mg SUBOXONE or 16mg SUBUTEX. The following adverse events were reported to occur by at least 5% of patients in a 4-week study (Table 3). Table 3. Adverse Events ( 5%) by Body System and Treatment Group in a 4-week Study | N(%) | N(%) | N(%) | Body System/ Adverse Event (COSTART Technology) | SUBOXONE 16 mg / day N= 107 | SUBUTEX 16 mg / day N = 103 | Placebo N= 107 | Body As A Whole | Asthenia | 7 (6.5%) | 5 (4.9%) | 7 (6.5%) | Chills | 8 (7.5%) | 8 (7.8%) | 8 (7.5%) | Headache | 39 (36.4%) | 30 (29.1%) | 24 (22.4%) | Infection | 6 (5.6%) | 12 (11.7%) | 7 (6.5%) | Pain | 24 (22.4%) | 19 (18.4%) | 20 (18.7%) | Pain Abdomen | 12 (11.2%) | 12 (11.7%) | 7 (6.5%) | Pain Back | 4 (3.7%) | 8 (7.8%) | 12 (11.2%) | Withdrawal Syndrome | 27 (25.2%) | 19 (18.4%) | 40 (37.4%) | Condiovasoular System | Vasodilation | 10 (9.3%) | 4 (3.9%) | 7 (6.5%) | Digestive System | Constipation | 13 (12.1%) | 8 (7.8%) | 3 (2.8%) | Diamhea | 4 (3.7%) | 5 (4.9%) | 16 (15.0%) | Nausea | 16 (15.0%) | 14 (13.6%) | 12 (11.2%) | Vomiting | 8 (7.5%) | 8 (7.8%) | 5 (4.7%) | Nervous System | Insomnia | 15 (14.0%) | 10 (9.7%) | 14 (13.1%) | Skin And Appendages | Sweating | 15 (14.0%) | 13 (12.6%) | 11 (10.3%) | The adverse event profile of buprenorphine was also characterized in the dose-controlled study of buprenor-phine solution, over a range of doses in four months of treatment. Table 4 shows adverse events reported by at least 5% of subjects in any dose group in the dose-controlled study. Table 4. Adverse Events (³ 5%) by Body System and Treatment Group in a 16 �?week Study Body System / Adverse Event (COSTART Technology ) | Buprenorphine Dose* | Very Low* (N=18.4) | Low* (N=18.0) | Moderate* (N=18.6) | High* (N=18.1) | Total (N=73.1 | N(%) | N(%) | N(%) | N(%) | N(%) | Body as a whole | Abscess | 9(5%) | 2(1%) | 3 (2%) | 2 (1%) | 16 (2%) | Astheria | 26 (14%) | 28 (16%) | 26(14%) | 24(13%) | 104(14%) | Chills | 11(6%) | 12(7%) | 9(5%) | 10(6%) | 42(6%) | Fever | 7 (4%) | 2(1%) | 2(1%) | 10(6%) | 21(3%) | Flu Syndrome | 4(2%) | 13(7%) | 19(10%) | 8(4%) | 44(6%) | Headache | 51(28%) | 62(34%) | 54(29%) | 53(29%) | 220(30%) | Infection | 32(17%) | 39(22%) | 38(20%) | 40(22%) | 149(20%) | Injury Accidental | 5(3%) | 10(6%) | 5(3%) | 5(3%) | 25(3%) | Pain | 47(26%) | 37(21%) | 49(26%) | 44(24%) | 177(24%) | Pain Back | 18(10%) | 29(16%) | 28(15%) | 27(15%) | 102(14%) | Withdrawal Syndrome | 45(24%) | 40(22%) | 41(22%) | 36(20%) | 162(22%) | Digestive System | Constipation | 10 (5%) | 23(13%) | 23(12%) | 26(14%) | 82(11%) | Diarhea | 19(10%) | 8(4%) | 9(5%) | 4(2%) | 40(5%) | Dyspepsia | 6(3%) | 10(6%) | 4(2%) | 4(2%) | 24(3%) | Nausea | 12(7%) | 22(12%) | 23(12%) | 18(10%) | 75(10%) | Vomiting | 8(4%) | 6(3%) | 10(5%) | 14(8%) | | Nervous System | Anxiety | 22(12%) | 24(13%) | 20(11%) | 25(14%) | 91(12%) | Depression | 24(13%) | 16(9%) | 25(13%) | 18(10%) | 83(11%) | Dizziness | 4(2%) | 9(5%) | 7(4%) | 11(6%) | 31(4%) | Insomnia | 42(23%) | 50(28%) | 43(23%) | 51(28%) | 186(25%) | Nervousress | 12(7%) | 11(6%) | 10(5%) | 13(7%) | 46(6%) | Somnolence | 5(3%) | 13(7%) | 9(5%) | 11(6%) | 38(5%) | Repiratory System | Cough Increase | 5 (3%) | 11 (6%) | 6 (3%) | 4 (2%) | 26(4%) | Pharyngitis | 6 (3%) | 7 (4%) | 6 (3%) | 9 (5%) | 28 (4%) | Rhinitis | 27 (15%) | 16 (9%) | 15 (8%) | 21 (12%) | 79 (11%) | Skin and Appendages | Sweat | 23 (13%) | 21(12%) | 20 (11%) | 23 (13%) | 87(12%) | Special Senses | Runny Eyes | 13 (7%) | 9 (5%) | 6 (3%) | 6 (3%) | 34 (5%) | *Sublingual solution. Doses in this table cannot necessarily be delivered in tablet form, but for comparison purposes: "Very low" dose (1mg solution) would be less than a tablet dose of 2 mg "Low" dose (4mg solution) approximates a 6 mg tablet dose "Moderate" dose (8mg solution) approximates a 12 mg tablet dose "High" dose (16mg solution) approximates a 24 mg tablet dose
DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE SUBOXONE and SUBUTEX are controlled as Schedule III narcotics under the Controlled Substances Act. Buprenorphine is a partial agonist at the mu-opioid receptor and chronic administration produces dependence of the opioid type, characterized by moderate withdrawal upon abrupt discontinuation or rapid taper. The withdrawal syndrome is milder than seen with full agonists, and may be delayed in onset (SEE WARNINGS ). Neonatal withdrawal has been reported in the infants of women treated with SUBUTEX during pregnancy (See PRECAUTIONS). SUBOXONE contains naloxone and if misused parenterally, is highly likely to produce marked and intense withdrawal symptoms in subjects dependent on other opioid agonists. DRUG INTERACTIONS Buprenorphine is metabolized to norbuprenorphine by cytochrome CYP 3A4. Because CYP 3A4 inhibitors may increase plasma concentrations of buprenorphine, patients already on CYP 3A4 inhibitors such as azole antifungals (e.g. ketoconazole), macrolide antibiotics (e.g. erythromycin), and HIV protease inhibitors (e.g. ritonavir, indi-navir and saquinavir) should have their dose of SUBUTEX or SUBOXONE adjusted. Based on anecdotal reports, there may be an interaction between buprenorphine and benzodiazepines. There have been a number of reports in the post-marketing experience of coma and death associated with the concomitant intravenous misuse of buprenorphine and benzodiazepines by addicts. In many of these cases, buprenorphine was misused by self-injection of crushed SUBUTEX tablets. SUBUTEX and SUBOXONE should be prescribed with caution to patients on benzodiazepines or other drugs that act on the central nervous system, regardless of whether these drugs are taken on the advice of a physician or are taken as drugs of abuse. Patients should be warned of the potential danger of the intravenous self-administration of benzodiazepines while under treatment with SUBOXONE or SUBUTEX. | language=JavaScript1.2 type=text/javascript>
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Thanks for the response. I have switched to Methadone to try and see if it stops the joint pain ( which in the mornings is so bad I can hardly walk for about five minutes) - and I've got a Drs appt next week and she will prescribe some tests then after I've gone for the tests I'll find out if the pains are from the bupe or something else. Will keep you posted. |
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| | From: ©Sha | Sent: 6/16/2005 5:10 PM |
Hi Zelda..Hope the methadone is working out well and the joint pains are fading. Like I mentioned I've never been on Buprenorohine, et al...but now that I think about it..I too had uncomfortable joint stiffness, etc. when I was on a higher dose (about 125-130mgs) of methadone. I don't think there are any studies saying that methadone may cause this side-effect..have to check. And I don't want people to think this will happen to them if they take it..there is already so much mus-information out there about it...but it happened to me and at the time there was nothing else I was taking that could have caused it. I'm also one of a small percentage less than 3%..who swells badly at a high dose. When I come down to 70 ish..it goes down alot and the stiffness is pretty much gone. Actually the joint stiffness was gone at 80-85ish. They were bad though..I would try and sleep with both my arms up in the air..strange I know..but if I didn't I couldn't close my hands in the morning for about 20 minutes until whatever it was..went down. Wanted to share that with you..we all react differently to methadone and all meds for that matter. Mostly I'd say 9 out of 10 people tolerate methadone very well. Hope this is the case for you Take care Sha |
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Just want to add that me too, I have really bad joint stiffness mostly in my legs, in the moring. Cant even walk for a few minutes till I get my bearings. And my hands are very very swelled also. I'm on 65mg. (i thought it was due to old age!) luv, sue |
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| | From: ©Sha | Sent: 2/11/2006 3:31 AM |
MSN Home | My MSN | Hotmail | Shopping | Money | People & Chat Web Search: Groups Groups Home | My Groups | Language | Help Heritics of Heroin [email protected] Welcome CoolCatess (member) What's New Welcome Message Board PoliticalRants Medical Center The E.R Overdose Video The Prayer Wall Poetic Freedom Our Fav Movies~Sounds~Books Junkie Jargon Chat Links Opiates Pictures Member Profile The Arcade In The News Member Tools General : suboxone Choose another message board Reply Recommend Message 1 of 10 in Discussion From: spacetunes1 (Original Message) Sent: 7/20/2004 7:31 PM shdblegl to michele, I was told I had to be no higher than 10 milagrams of meth, was on that about 5 days & then told not to take anything for 24 hours before my appt. to get suboxone Man was that hard, Everyone has their opinions on this but I am not happy with suboxone, I was told it would be easy to get off, so far it is not, maybe I am not giving it enough time, I started on 8 mils 4 times a day, but because I was told it would be easy to get off, 2 days later I tried to stop, by 11 in morning had to take 1. Doctor says to give it time. My stomach is always in knots, my head hurts & I do not sleep well, yet!!!. I was so happy to be off the meth, told my family & friends. When I was on meth I found my perfect dose at 60, did not ""feel"" it, just felt normal everyday, very seldom got sick, both my wives died of aids & hep c, most of my friends are dead & I was feeling healthy, go figure. Mow everyday I get up from a shitty sleep, feeling shitty, having shitty shits. But I've talked to a couple of people who have nothing but good things to say about suboxone. I am now on 2 mils up to 2 a day on how I feel, I am going to stay on this for a while & hopefully it will all level off.. Also sorry about the multiple post. Greg H Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance First Previous 2-10 of 10 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 10 in Discussion From: shdblegl Sent: 7/21/2004 1:45 PM Greg, thanks for the info..i have been having second, third, and fourth thoughts about switiching to bupe...when I talk to the director of the program, I think Im going to ask him for one straight answer after I give him my history.. "Which one is the smarter route..just detox from the 35 mgs Im on now till 0 mgs and than deal with the off of meth drama for a while or am I just proloning the agony I know is coming regardless.. God I hate this shit already! Talk about how we want it now..I want off now (who cares if I had a 20 year run with drugs..I want it simple, quick, and done..yeah right...in a perfect world..maybe michele Reply Recommend Message 3 of 10 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 7/21/2004 2:35 PM Greg- I posted to ya on the other thread before I read this one. DON"T GET DISCOURAGED. This can and will work for you. Right now, take as little as possible. If 1mg holds you, take that. If you NEED 2mg, take that. But for the time being take as little as possible while keeping yourself comfortable. Also, sorry, another question: what was the exact taper schedule? It sounds like you started at 16mg/day and tapered down over a month. I'm afraid my friend, that your doc didn't do you any favors if that's how he told you to do it. But anway- can you give me as exact as you can remember: how much sub. for how many days and well, just your whole taper schedule? And don't worry, you'll get thru this and when it's over you'll be glad you did it. Marco Reply Recommend Message 4 of 10 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 7/21/2004 2:52 PM Michele- I know what your doc will tell you (actually I don't, it depends on whether or not he's taken the 8 HOUR COURSE that makes people EXPERTS), but it's been my experience that docs (even those who have become experts thru 8 whole hours of training) don't know shit about this drug; so his advice ain't gonna help. At this point, my best guess re Greg is that his doc probably didn't give him a good schedule to taper off the sub. But actually, as I'm learning, no one knows much about it other than that people react very differently. For some it is a miracle, for others it is evil (to borrow your word). In the end, it's still gonna be your decision. But I wouldn't take your doctors word, nor would I take my own word (if I were someone else)- cuz the only sure thing is that no one can tell you for sure how it's going to affect you. Still, the great majority of people haven't had problems. Marco Reply Recommend Message 5 of 10 in Discussion From: spacetunes1 Sent: 7/22/2004 10:03 AM The last 2 days have been pretty good so far, maybe the suboxone is doing what it is supposed now that I stabilized my dose, if you can talk to marco,he is very insightful on this subject & really helped me alot. Either way you do it there will some discomfort. Just hang in there........................Greg H Reply Recommend Message 6 of 10 in Discussion From: spacetunes1 Sent: 7/22/2004 10:06 AM The doctor told me I was going about it all wrong, but at times I felt OK & really thought I could just stop. Have an appt with him tomorrow, he seems like a good knowledgable doctor, but me being the bull headed person I can be I thought I knew better. Sometimes I do & sometimes I don't. Again thanks..........Greg H Reply Recommend Message 7 of 10 in Discussion From: Lovingmom2433 Sent: 7/22/2004 10:15 AM Greg, Hope the doctor is helpful and he is able to get you on the right dose. Love karen Reply Recommend Message 8 of 10 in Discussion From: shdblegl Sent: 7/22/2004 7:11 PM Greg, glad you are feeling better...me..im just going to take it verrrrrry slowly, the eight hours Marco referred to is a bit scary, but I just dont know..maybe right now the best thing for me is just to stay stable (finally) on 35mgs while some options are starting to open up for me......cause the last thing and most probable thing to happen is me getting overwhelmed and start to use some kind of substance little by little to calm the anxiety.......I think my "dead line" of October of being off meth is a little unrealistic..better to be sane than not sane and sick! (god it used to be so much easeir when your mission was clear..go and cop..too bad it leads to death, jail or imo worse, total loss of self!!) michele Reply Recommend Message 9 of 10 in Discussion From: Lovingmom2433 Sent: 7/23/2004 9:26 AM Michele, I am so glad you decided to take the tapering off slow. We need you around here, sane and happy, lol. Besides October is the absolutely worst month for me and i will need you. Much love Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: shdblegl To: Heritics of Heroin Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:11 PM Subject: Re: suboxone New Message on Heritics of Heroin suboxone Reply Reply to Sender Recommend Message 8 in Discussion From: shdblegl Greg, glad you are feeling better...me..im just going to take it verrrrrry slowly, the eight hours Marco referred to is a bit scary, but I just dont know..maybe right now the best thing for me is just to stay stable (finally) on 35mgs while some options are starting to open up for me......cause the last thing and most probable thing to happen is me getting overwhelmed and start to use some kind of substance little by little to calm the anxiety.......I think my "dead line" of October of being off meth is a little unrealistic..better to be sane than not sane and sick! (god it used to be so much easeir when your mission was clear..go and cop..too bad it leads to death, jail or imo worse, total loss of self!!) michele View other groups in this category. Reply Recommend Message 10 of 10 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 7/23/2004 4:16 PM Hey Michele- I'm also so glad that you decided to kind of slow it down a bit. Marco First Previous 2-10 of 10 Next Last Return to General Notice: Microsoft has no responsibility for the content featured in this group. Click here for more info. MSN Home | My MSN | Hotmail | Shopping | Money | People & Chat | Search Feedback | Help ©2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use Advertise TRUSTe Approved Privacy Statement GetNetWise Original thread: |
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| | From: ©Sha | Sent: 2/11/2006 3:36 AM |
From: Echo (Original Message) Sent: 9/28/2003 10:58 AM Hello everyone- My boyfriend is interested in getting on bup. I'm REALLY happy that he is finally considering treatment, as I am on methadone and it's been working great for me. Anyway, I've done a little investigating on it, but I'm still pretty uneducated. I got a list of doctors prescribing bup in our state, MA. Could anyone give me some info on where to start? Should we look into any dr available? Is there anything really important that my bf needs to know about this medication? I know that Marco and Beth are on it, so I'd love if you could give me your opinions/experiences with it. My bf has a small habit- he stopped doing H when I did (when I went onto the clinic) and he uses mainly pills and illicit methadone. Any info would be so very appreciated! Echo First Previous 2-4 of 4 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 4 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 9/28/2003 2:04 PM Hi Echo- As you know I've been on bup for quite awhile now- since about Feb. It's taken me a long time, but I'm starting to get my use under control. For a long time I was using every week on top of the bup, but have been doing better lately. While I'm not completely clean yet, I'm putting together strings of 2-3 weeks at a time without using and feel like I'm getting there. I'd strongly recommend that your b/f give it a try. I think it's probably especially effective for someone who doesn't have a big habit (as opposed to someone like me). I don't know if any one doc is better than any other; I'm sure there are differences. My doc is great. I began seeing him once a week and now seem him once every two weeks. He has never urine tested me and I have been honest with him about my usage. He believes that as long as I'm showing progress I should continue to stay with bup. My only altenative is meth and I don't want to do that again. The worst thing that could happen if your b/f tries bup is that it won't work for him and maybe he'd have to switch to meth. I think it's all a matter of motivation. There's a part of me, as much as I hate to admit it, that still loves dope so much and that part of me keeps winning out over the part of me that truly wants to stop. But I am doing better as time goes on. And as I've said before I think a lot of my continued use has to do with boredom, coming from not working. I truly believe if I had something positive going on in my life I'd be able to quit. I mean I do have a lot of positives- a great wife and kids, money is not a problem for me, I live a pretty upper-middle class life despite not working for a year and a half. So I've got a lot going for me. But my self-worth was always so tied to my career and I get really discouraged and down about being unemployed. I had worked in the same field for over 20 years and losing my job was a blow that I haven't recovered from (I don't mean to whine). Anyway, enough about me. I do think your b/f sounds like an ideal candidate for bup. It's easy, you pick up a script once a month. You can't abuse it cuz it doesn't get you high. And despite the fact that I haven't quit completely I'm using less and less and I believe it has also helped with my depression. I would strongly try to encourage him to give it a try. There's absolutely nothing to lose. At worst, it doesn't work for him and he's exactly where he is now. At best, he's no longer using illicit drugs. And I feel that since he's off H and doing mainly pills that it'll be much more effective for him- provided he's motivated to quit using. Hope this has been helpful and feel free to ask any other questions. Marco Reply Recommend Message 3 of 4 in Discussion From: Echo Sent: 10/3/2003 6:43 PM Hey Marco thanks for the info. I think bup would benefit my bf and your opinion only furthers this belief. His main doubt I'm sure will be about getting off of it. I know he'll worry about that, just as it worried me when I got on meth. The thing is he is going to have to detox off of the meds he's taking on his own right now anyway so it's really not a valid reason not to try bup. I will talk to him more about it and hound you later with more questions Do you know if private medical insurance generally covers bup? (the dr visits or the scripts?) If not, is it terribly expensive? I self pay for my methadone and it's driving me to bankrupcy seriously. I'm at the point now though that I am going to fight my insurance co to pay for and reinburse me. Such a headache but worth it echo Reply Recommend Message 4 of 4 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 10/5/2003 2:32 PM Hi Echo- I don't know how difficult it is to come off of bup, but from everything I've read and from what my doc has told me it's very easy compared to H or meth. If you taper you can do it relatively quickly and virtually symptom-free from what I hear. But I don't know anyone who's come off it, so I don't really know. About insurance paying for it, I guess it depends on the insurance company. My insurance pays for both my doc and it also pays the cost of the medication except for a $25 co-pay. I think that bup is pretty expensive if it's not covered by insurance, though. Marco Original: |
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| | From: ©Sha | Sent: 2/11/2006 3:38 AM |
MSN Home | My MSN | Hotmail | Shopping | Money | People & Chat Web Search: Groups Groups Home | My Groups | Language | Help Heritics of Heroin [email protected] Welcome CoolCatess (member) What's New Welcome Message Board PoliticalRants Medical Center The E.R Overdose Video The Prayer Wall Poetic Freedom Our Fav Movies~Sounds~Books Junkie Jargon Chat Links Opiates Pictures Member Profile The Arcade In The News Member Tools General : Suboxone Information Choose another message board Reply Recommend Message 1 of 22 in Discussion From: Lil' Chilly (Original Message) Sent: 8/21/2003 4:31 PM Hi All, I found this link that has lots of informtion on Burpenorphine (Suboxone/Subtex). I suggest reading it if you are on treatment or would like to be. I am on suboxone (16mg per day) and it works great. it's a great alternative to going to the clinic every day and dealing the the dehumanizing treatment you tend to recieve there. Check out the site at http://www.etfrc.com/SuboxoneResources.htmPeace <>< Lil Chilly First Previous 8-22 of 22 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 8 of 22 in Discussion From: alesia Sent: 9/2/2003 8:51 AM hi! i don't have anything to add about the bup thing, but one thing i can totally relate to is the boredom. what most non users don't understand is the all encompasing job it is to get h, use h, etc. i just stopped a baby habit (lol), and i hope i can stay away. i remember when i lived in NYC, though, and was doing my first time around that i actually enjoyed the running around, the whole job of it. when i started going to a meth clinic it felt like i had this gigantic void in my life. hours of time on my hands. you'll laugh, but one thing that helped a LOT was my game boy. anyway, i'd love to hear from anyone who can relate to the addiction to the actual life that comes with a habit. by that i mean the running around, the prep of works, etc. that is one of the hardest things for me to let go. Reply Recommend Message 9 of 22 in Discussion From: lifeoverkill23 Sent: 9/2/2003 12:51 PM i hear ya load and clear......i had several weeks on and off clean, and that was a major part of the problem. although i have plenty to do,the disruption of the routine throws me. i am currently detoxing off meth to switch to bupe, and trying to stay clean, although emothionally in am having a hard time. my husband is witholding money from me, and saying he wont pay for treatment. the usual mental abuse ive endured for years. im fed up and i need to be self sufficient and throw his sorry ass to the curb.. only problem....we have 2 kids and hes kept me out of the workforcefor some time now. i am a registered nurse, but im sure my skills are well....alittle rusty im just sick of the low self esteem. also the comments of weight gain due to meth.....the secret is that i had battled anorexia for 14 years, and heroin was the obsession that took my mind off my weight. anyway just rambling.......i wish men could enduresome of the pain that women do. Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. Reply Recommend Message 10 of 22 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 9/2/2003 12:56 PM Oh man, can I ever relate! I loved the whole lifestyle part of it. Going down to cop, lovingly preparing the works, and the final reward- putting the needle in and plunging it home for the big reward. I swear sometimes I feel like I was as addicted to the needle as to the drug- like you said, the whole preparation, everything. Boredom is a great killer for me right now. Having lost my career cuz of my addiction after working all my life and now having nothing to do all day is really tough. It just feels like long empty stretches of day. From where I live, going down to cop was like a 2 hour thing- driving downtown, hanging with the people, copping, driving back home and then the whole prep thing. Took a lot of time. Even when I was working. I had a job where no one noticed if I came or went. So I'd leave mid-morning. Go cop and be back in the office in about 45 minutes. Go into the bathroom at work, and ..... I was so full of sick pride that I'd be thinking 'if only these people at work knew who I really was; if they only knew what I was really doing every time I left the office.' I know, it's sick. But I was (am) a pretty sick guy. Maybe I should take up gameboy. Marco Reply Recommend Message 11 of 22 in Discussion From: lifeoverkill23 Sent: 9/2/2003 2:14 PM hey crazy old me again....just rereading my thread, and noticing some horrendous spelling errors......sorry i meant to say hear ya loud and clear, not load and clear.hahahahha anyway just talked to the bupe doctor, my appt.fast approaching, freedom from the clutches of the ever so present clinic. yaaaaahoooooo and im a little scared that once again the routine thing will throw me off. marco, i can relate to everything you said....especially the bathroom preparation part. i know the needle is as much part of it as any. thanks for all your advice too. MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. Reply Recommend Message 12 of 22 in Discussion From: Lovingmom2433 Sent: 9/3/2003 9:50 AM Dear Marco, I am so sad that you lost your job but so happy that you are staying sober. I heard an addiction expert ( whatever the hell that is) say on t.v. yesterday that when someone is working on staying clean they shouldn't work. Maybe not for a long time. Staying clean is a huge job in itself. My son Gino could never keep a job. He would do real well with it at first and then shit would happen. He would be gone all night and not show or he would sleep thru his shift. When he first got home from re-hab I harped on him to get a job. I should of been concentrating on his sobriety. These are all hindsite things we learn along the way. Boredom was his worst enemy. He was on an electronic tether so he could only go to work and back. His girlfriend would try to come over and fill some of the void but there was so much time. He did kind of go back to his childhood. He would make things. Maybe you could try that. Well i won't ramble forever, some of the things you said just touch me so i had to respond. Much love Karen Reply Recommend Message 13 of 22 in Discussion From: alesia Sent: 9/4/2003 11:58 AM Hi, Marco, I read your letter...you know the deal. When you told about that "sick pride," I know exactly what you mean. I was unpopular in school, my family moving around alot. I was very introverted because of my home life. Both my parents were abusive alcoholics, and as pathetic as it sounds, I truly believed no one wanted or loved me. (As was told in so many different ways.) When I started using, I felt like I was part of this exclusive club....I was cool. I used to cop in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and loved to hang out there with my "pals". It's funny....most of these people were squatters, or homeless. I had an apartment with my then husband (who was in the dark about all this....it's amazing the lies people will believe when they trust you...)and all I wanted to do was hang out with the junkies. The saddest part about all this is I miss it...a lot. Yours, Wendy (Alesia) Reply Recommend Message 14 of 22 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 9/4/2003 5:33 PM Hi Karen: Thanks for the kind words. I am always so moved by what you write and my heart truly goes out to you. I can not even think of the pain of losing a child. I have two and it is the worst thing I can imagine. When I got clean a year or so ago my doc told me to take some time off, which I did. Then I started using again and my doc said that in retrospect I probably should have tried to go back to work. I had a very good career for 20+ years and my whole self-esteem and everything was tied to that. So now that I'm now working, I feel really useless. Dependent on my wife, not really contributing anything. And while it has in some ways been good not to work (I have done a lot of work on myself), it's really time for me to try to get back to it. But I burned some bridges and while I'm trying to go back into the same field I don't know if I'll be able to. Alesia- I agree. It is sad and hard for me to admit that I miss it. I hid my drug life from my wife also, although eventually she'd always find out I was using again, but usually not until I was in so much pain that I would want to go back into a detox/rehab. But yeah, exactly, all I wanted to do was hang with the junkies and part of it was having this feeling of being so cool, being a rebel, an outlaw, outside of societies rules. And admitting that I miss that seems somehow pretty sick. I know where you're coming from. Marco Reply Recommend Message 15 of 22 in Discussion From: alesia Sent: 9/5/2003 9:23 AM hey, marco, i did that whole guilt trip over the work thing, too. right before i started meth, i was thin. my ex husband loved it. he was blind to the fact that i was using 8,9, sometimes more bags a day, and had also started a 50 a day iv coke thing. i go on meth, and within three months stopped with all the other stuff. i took a year and a half off to take care of myself, and to, uh, gain 100 pounds. so, to make a long story short, i get clean, finally start working again, feel ALIVE again but my husband "asks me to leave because he loves someone else". the point i'm trying to make here is everything is not going to work out at once. with work, i had a job in banking where i made a lot of money, had a lot of responsibility. well, banks don't reallly like employees who take two hour lunches and nod out in their office. after the year and a half, i just accepted i had to start at the bottom again, and it was kind of relieving. with the exception of my relapse last month, i need you to know all that doubt, guilt, etc goes away when you just sit and realize the enormity of what you have accomplished staying clean. i'll stop rambling now...but just know this..........IT CAN BE YOUR PAST. i realize everyone like us is always in recovery, but for me, i had to just stop obsessing. i had to think of other things. i could NOT go to another NA meeting and relive it over and over again. distancing worked for me. it made me stop living my life focusing on my drug use. marco, take time off. get strong. but then know you are the focus of your life, not your drug use. everyone is going to yell at me for this. (lol). Yours, w Reply Recommend Message 16 of 22 in Discussion From: Echo Sent: 9/6/2003 9:41 AM Alesia- I would certainly not yell at you for that advice. Staying clean IS hard work. However, personally I find that working keeps me active and occupies my mind therefore helping me to stay clean. But that's just me. Besides, I dont think I could afford not to work. I consider myself lucky to even have a job right now. Still, if someone needs a break to work on themselves and they are able to, then they should take the time they need. I often feel a little lonely w/out the drug life. I've only been out of it and on methadone for just over a month. I relocated to another city, where I have few friends and none are drug users. I'm also close to my job and my family. It's a good situation for staying clean and I'm removed from the drug life I lived for so long. I miss it. There was ALWAYS something important to do, somewhere to go. Always running too. Now I've got so much time. I try to remember to take it slow and repair all of the great hole I dug for myself in my addiction. That in itself is proving to take up a good deal of time. Echo Reply Recommend Message 17 of 22 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 9/8/2003 6:03 PM I can sure relate to what both of you, alesia & echo, are saying. Staying clean is really hard work, the hardest thing I've ever done and I'm not even completely there yet. I'm glad you brought up NA, cuz I think about AA/NA a lot. I have some friends that are pretty into it, they think I've been clean for about 5 months when actually I've still been using once a week or so (actually it's been getting less lately). I had a string of 3 weeks and now I've got a string of a couple of weeks with only using once in between. I think I'm getting there. And I the using that I do, it's mainly from boredom. I really think if I was working I wouldn't keep using. Since I'm on bup, I don't even really get high from shooting dope, but I get so bored I do it I don't know why, I guess cuz I'm an addict. But here's the main thing about AA/NA for me. I hadn't had a drink in many years. I never had a problem with alcohol. But lately I've been having a beer or a glass of wine with dinner. I know all the AA/NA attitude, but I have no problem just having one beer. I don't even really like the feeling of being drunk. My problem is that I hate to lose these friends just cuz I've had a few beers. I mean, they wouldn't stop liking me, but really the only place I see them is at meetings and then going out afterwards. But I don't feel like part of that club anymore. I went to a meeting last night for the first time in a month or so and just felt out of place. Maybe cuz I wasn't honest. I mean I didn't get up and say I've used or I had a beer or anything. I'm debating about whether to be honest with these guys and tell them that I've had the occasional beer, that I've still been shooting up. I hate being such a liar and don't want the guilt of it. But I really don't think for me, that drinking has anything to do with my using. I've just never been a big drinker and don't see it as being a problem for me. And god knows that AA/NA has never helped me stay clean. The only thing that's working (somewhat) is the bup. Sorry to go on & on and I hope this makes some sense. Marco Reply Recommend Message 18 of 22 in Discussion From: shdblegl Sent: 9/9/2003 8:16 AM Hey I havnt been around (working) but I live in the Bronx and have been on a one day pick up for 50 mgs of meth for 7 f**king years now. I dont have the time to get acqainted with you all right now, but any, I mean ANY one who has info on getting on Burpenorphine after a 7 years stint on Meth and a 15 year heroin run, and I would be eteranlly grateful. I cant stand the clinic even though its one day, its still a ball and chain but I am not stupid enough to try to kick now when Im going though a lot of stress. (more later) I'll hit the board later and hope everyone is smiling these days cause life is getting too short and too scary lately. Hang in there everyone. Reply Recommend Message 19 of 22 in Discussion From: Echo Sent: 9/9/2003 8:44 PM Marco- I totally hear what you're saying. I was going to meetings for a while there when I got a little clean time together. But this time, I havent been to any. First of all, I have heard that AA/NA people tend to hold a major stigma against meth etc. But the real reason I'm not going is just cuz I'm not feeling it. I am finding that my methadone, counseling and sites like this one help me when I need it. That's not to say that in the future I wont go to meetings. But if I do, I wont mention I'm on methadone, speaking of dishonesty. Like you, I'm not a big drinker and occasionally I will have a glass maybe two. And even though alcohol's not my "thing" I gotta remember that it could happen anyway- I'm an addict. So I'm not saying put the drink down, just remember where you've been and be careful. Also I really dont feel like it is absolutely necessary for you need to spill your guts to the group at the meetings you go to. You're there because you're fighting an addiction, just like everyone else in the room. Nobody's perfect and NA/AA tells you to "keep coming" whether you're using or not. They just ask you not to show up high (obviously). Those groups are supposed to be understanding and help you to stop, not to criticize you if you're not yet totally clean. If you spend too much time feeling guilty and worrying about what the group thinks, you wont get much out of it. So Marco I think honesty will make you feel better as well as get real advice and support, however it is not a prerequesite that you must admit all of your downfalls each time. At least I hope it isnt. By the way I think if I had a lot more free time I might go to NA- maybe that would be a good idea for you, especially when you have cravings. Having too much time on your hands is a struggle- I think if I werent working right now I'd be more likely to use or defiitely be on a much higher dose of methadone!! So meetings seem like a constructive way to distract you from getting high. Good luck to you always Marco. It was not so long ago you were sending me great support and encouragement here before I began the methadone. I am so grateful to you. Stay strong! Echo Reply Recommend Message 20 of 22 in Discussion From: Marco Sent: 9/11/2003 2:19 PM Echo- Thanks for the kind words. I guess my problem is that when I go to AA they say in the intro the the only qualification for membership is the desire to stop drinking. So I feel like just being there is a lie (and I'mso sick of lies). But I am going to a meeting tonight- mainly to see some friends and hang out with them afterwards. They're pretty cool and don't hold things against me, but they don't know that I've had a few drinks lately and I'm not likely to tell them. I've heard so many times that we're only as sick as our secrets, but sometimes I think it's nobodies business what I'm doing as I'm doing my best to stay clean. Thanks again! Marco Reply Recommend Message 21 of 22 in Discussion From: Lil' Chilly Sent: 9/12/2003 3:28 PM Here is a list of doctors in your area who can perscribe suboxone. Call and make an appointment asap. It will end the "clinic cycle" for you once and for all. Good luck - This information is from the Samsha website under "doctor locator". If you would like to see the site the address is Your request for the city matching Bronx, NY returned the following 12 physicians Beth K. Boyarsky M.D. 2527 Glebe Ave Bronx, NY 10461 (718) 904-4494 Ricardo O. Dunner M.D. 324 East 149th St. Bronx, NY 10451 (718) 665-4300 Clifford Mark Gevirtz M.D., M.P.H. Bronx VA Medical Center (Anethesia) 130 W. Kingsbridge Road Bronx, NY 10468 (718) 584-9000x6205 Marc Gourevitch M.D. Bronx Psychiatric Ctr, Betty Parker Bldg 1500 Waters Place, 6th Floor, Wd. 20 Bronx, NY 10461 (718) 409-9450 Hillary Kunins M.D. Albert Einstein Col of Med of Yeshiva U 368 East 149th Street, Hub 2 Bronx, NY 10455 (718) 292-2401 Dr. Bridget Ann Martell Dosa Executive Offices/6th Floor Parker 1500 Waters Place. Bronx, NY 10461 (718) 993-3397 Manuel Meza M.D. Methadone Program Bronx Lebanon Hospital 3100 Third Avenue Bronx, NY 10451 (718) 579-2613 John Osei-Tutu M.D. Bronx Lebanon Hospital 1276 Fulton Avenue Bronx, NY 10456 (718) 901-6133 Elise K. Richman M.D. AECON Dept. of Psych. SUTNCMHC-CDTP 2527 Glebe Avenue, Room 107 Bronx, NY 10461 (718) 904-4439 Carlos Alberto Rueda M.D. 600 East 233 Street 7th Floor Bronx, NY 10466 (718) 920-9093 Dr. Gregory Lytton Sathananthan Bronx Psychiatric Center 1500 Waters Place Bronx, NY 10461 (718) 823-9156 Ofelia T. Villar M.D. Bronx Lebanon Hospital Center 1285 Fulton Avenue Bronx, NY 10456 (718) 518-3750 : Reply Recommend Message 22 of 22 in Discussion From: Fordslittlelady1 Sent: 9/14/2003 12:20 PM this is for Marco, I was reading your discussion about becoming obsessed with the whole ritual. That is where Amy was when she started shooting. The chase sometimes it would take her until 10pm to get high, getting rides, works I cannot even comprehend. I would like to though. I have friends 3 to be exact who all go to the methadone clinic. Actually 2 only 1 made it out. He still takes vicodins once in awhile beats the hell out of shooting heroin. There is so much to this drug. I have lost 3 young friends in there early 20's. (I was always hanging out with the young guys. never looked my age nor do I act it.) Sometimes I blame myself for where Amy is at. Between blame, shame and guilt well I am just rambling on. Manic stage today, I am bipolaralso I would like to say about the suboxone. Amy was in a very expensive detox and that drug was like a miracle. If you can get it prescribed. But the sad part is they are also addictive. But at least you know what your getting. First Previous 8-22 of 22 Next Last Return to General Notice: Microsoft has no responsibility for the content featured in this group. Click here for more info. MSN Home | My MSN | Hotmail | Shopping | Money | People & Chat | Search Feedback | Help ©2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use Advertise TRUSTe Approved Privacy Statement GetNetWise Original thread: |
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