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All Message Boards : a useful perspective - from an american-afghan
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 Message 1 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKellog_bluff  (Original Message)Sent: 9/17/2001 9:50 PM
Here is the text of a letter I received today - from an american of Afghan descent.  He's asked that it be shared for those of us who do not know or cannot talk with any Afghans...I suppose that's alot of us

Dear Friends,

Yesterday I heard a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ron Owens, on KGO Talk Radio allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage," and he asked, "What else can we do? What is your suggestion?" Minutes later I heard a TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about these issues especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's been going on over there. So I want to share a few thoughts with anyone who will listen.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I fervently wish to see those monsters punished.

But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who captured Afghanistan in 1997 and have been holding the country in bondage ever since. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a master plan.

When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would love for someone to eliminate the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. I guarantee it.

Some say, if that's the case, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban themselves? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, damaged, and incapacitated. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. Millions of Afghans are widows of the approximately two million men killed during the war with the Soviets. And the Taliban has been executing these women for being women and have buried some of their opponents alive in mass graves. The soil of Afghanistan is littered with land mines and almost all the farms have been destroyed . The Afghan people have tried to overthrow the Taliban. They haven't been able to.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble with that scheme is, it's already been done. The Soviets took care of it . Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? There is no infrastructure. Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late.

Someone already did all that.

New bombs would only land in the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. (They have already, I hear.) Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time.

So what else can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. I think that when people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" many of them are thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. They are thinking about overcoming moral qualms about killing innocent people. But it's the belly to die, not kill, that's actually on the table. Americans will die in a land war to get Bin Laden. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that, folks. To get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us?  Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. The invasion approach is a flirtation with global war between Islam and the West.

And that is Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants and why he did this thing. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. AT the moment, of course, "Islam" as such does not exist. There are Muslims and there are Muslim countries, but no such political entity as Islam. Bin Laden believes that if he can get a war started, he can constitute this entity and he'd be running it. He really believes Islam would beat the west.

It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the West wreaks a holocaust in Muslim lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong about winning, in the end the west would probably overcome--whatever that would mean in such a war; but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden yes, but anyone else?

I don't have a solution. But I do believe that suffering and poverty are the soil in which terrorism grows. Bin Laden and his cohorts want to bait us into creating more such soil, so they and their kind can flourish. We can't let him do that. That's my humble opinion.

Tamim Ansary


thanks Tamin.


First  Previous  2-11 of 11  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameEvonneTheStorytellerSent: 9/17/2001 11:56 PM
Great letter.  Are we allowed to pass this on to our friends who would be interested in reading this outside SLC?

Reply
 Message 3 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKellog_bluffSent: 9/18/2001 12:46 AM
that was the intent.

Reply
 Message 4 of 11 in Discussion 
From: hammersteinSent: 9/18/2001 4:40 AM
Kellog, thank you for posting this and tell your friend that I thank him for writing this.  It was informative.  I did not know many of the things that he talked about.  He is right in many regards.  As I sit and write this, at the left of my computer screen on MSN, I see:  Bust wants bin Landen "dead or alive".  What a scarey place this country and other countrys are in right now.  Regardless of the retaliation we take, innocent lives will be lost.  This saddens me greatly.  I do not know the answer.  What is the peaceful solution?  Is there one?  It is hard to believe that one man can cause so much upheaval all around the world.  That one man can cause so much hate.  Has he already won?  I cringe when I think that many more people will die.  I cringe when I hear "We want blood."  Maybe if my brother,sister, mother, father, or friend died in the Sept 11th attack, I may want blood too.  Maybe not.   The fact is we are all a little scared of the consiquences that will be bestowed across the world.  There are many tears of sadness to come I'm afraid.  It will test many of us.  It will test our personal moral core.

Reply
 Message 5 of 11 in Discussion 
From: WildHeartSent: 9/18/2001 3:39 PM
I watched Oprah last night and there was this one lady on there Judy something who lived in Afghanastan for most of her journalist career. She has studied Bin laden and the germ warfare crisis that has taken place before. Bin or the taliban went out and put salmonila in the salad bar and poisoned alot of that countries people. Can you believe it? He or this taliban is poisoning there own country,own people. He is messed! Its not about the country,its about one person,or people who hate. A small minority believe inthis ladden guy.He already has a successor if and when he gets killed. He has armies trained just like he was,the youth LOve this guy and is famous among them. I am Canadian and I love Bush,i feel I can trust him. I know this happened to your country,but as individuals,it affects us all. Everyone I know around hear is scared and worried there is going to be a war. we are all upset about what was done to USA. I only wish everyone in the whole wurld would see it in the ways more open and with hearts instead of anger.If we really believe in God or a God or Gods,dont you think we would want His will to be done? What exactly is Gods will? Are we completely free will on this? What would God do in this situation?I am really starting to look at People as individuals more then ever. I look at everyone the same,we are all the same.Different characteristics but we all come from the same source. I wish everyone knew that.

Reply
 Message 6 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameintense_femaleSent: 9/19/2001 3:47 AM
this scares me...
 
US 'planned attack on Taleban'
<!-- NOLImage -->
Taleban fighters
The wider objective was to oust the Taleban
<!-- /NOLImage -->
By the BBC's George Arney

A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks.

Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.

Russian soldiers in Tajikistan
Russian troops were on standby
Mr Naik said US officials told him of the plan at a UN-sponsored international contact group on Afghanistan which took place in Berlin.

Mr Naik told the BBC that at the meeting the US representatives told him that unless Bin Laden was handed over swiftly America would take military action to kill or capture both Bin Laden and the Taleban leader, Mullah Omar.

The wider objective, according to Mr Naik, would be to topple the Taleban regime and install a transitional government of moderate Afghans in its place - possibly under the leadership of the former Afghan King Zahir Shah.

Mr Naik was told that Washington would launch its operation from bases in Tajikistan, where American advisers were already in place.

Osama Bin Laden
Bin Laden would have been "killed or captured"
He was told that Uzbekistan would also participate in the operation and that 17,000 Russian troops were on standby.

Mr Naik was told that if the military action went ahead it would take place before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.

He said that he was in no doubt that after the World Trade Center bombings this pre-existing US plan had been built upon and would be implemented within two or three weeks.

And he said it was doubtful that Washington would drop its plan even if Bin Laden were to be surrendered immediately by the Taleban.


Reply
 Message 7 of 11 in Discussion 
From: faceonmars9Sent: 9/19/2001 1:03 PM
[ Hiya intense.  This message was posted at another community I belong to on 9-9-01, two days before the attacks.  I have no doubt that we were at very least considering going to war with Afghanistan before this happened.  There were 81 names typed at the bottom of this e-mail/post that I deleted.  Guess they might not be needing this e-mail petition any longer.  Why's it scare you? I think I know why. I don't think it's anything to be scared about though.]
 
Dear Friends,
> Please take a few minutes to read and act on this email.On May 23rd 2001
the
> Taleban authorities in Afghanistan confirmed that all Hindus will be
required
> to wear a strip of yellow cloth sewn on to a shirt pocket in order to
> identify themselves. They claim that the measure is for their
"protection".
> The world has faced this before, in 1939 the world was required, at great
> cost, to rid itself of Hitler's
> tyranny, it is not hard to spot his child. No one spoke for the Jews
during
> the second world war, if we don't speak up now, who will speak for us?
>
> Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to relive it.The
> Taleban's record on respecting other religions gives great cause for
concern
> that their ultimate aim, upon which they are intent, is "religious
> cleansing". They have already demonstrated their disdain and intolerance
for
> other religions and traditions by the desecration and destruction of the
> ancient Buddhist statues, our collective heritage, within the Afghanistan.
> Even today a number of Christians and Non Christians, (mostly Aids
workers)
> are in their prisons, accused of trying to convert Muslims. Whatever your
> religion, or even if you have none, we hope that you will agree that this
is
> fundamentally wrong. Remember, "All it takes for evil to triumph is for
good
> men to do nothing". Please do not do nothing, add your voice.
>
> DIRECTIONS:
>
> PLEASE COPY this email on to a new message, add your name and those of
your
> household who wish to participate to the bottom and forward it to everyone
> on your distribution list. If you receive this petition and you find that
> you will be the 251st name on it, please e-mail a copy of it
> to:alastair@o... It will then be forwarded to the UN. Even if you
> decide not to sign, please be considerate and do not kill the petition as
> you will be denying your friends, and theirs, their
> legitimate voice. Instead return it to alastair@o... If you receive
> this message more than once, it is only because some of the addresses on
my
> list are being rejected by the server. Sorry.
>                                    *******
> To The Secretary General,
> Security Council and General Assembly of the United Nations.
>
> We the undersigned are appalled by the decision of the Taleban government
of
> Afghanistan to require all Hindus to wear a piece of yellow cloth sewn
onto
> a shirt pocket in order to identify
> themselves. An individual's communion with God, however they find him, is
a
> matter of personal conscience and must not be the subject of intimidation
or
> persecution. The right of everyone to
> worship as they wish is fundamental and inalienable. The United Nations
was
> founded in order to defeat Hitler and his henchmen who required the same
> from another religion with all it's horrific
> consequences. It is completely unacceptable that nearly 60 years later
> history is repeating itself.
>
> We ask the following:
> 1. That the Taleban
> government is made aware in the strongest possible terms that the world
will
 not countenance this perversion of human rights.                                                         2. That prior to the United Nations and/or it's constituent members
granting recognition of the Taleban government this obscene policy is reversed.
3. That the United Nations widen the terms of the trade sanctions
currently in force.

Reply
(1 recommendation so far) Message 8 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKellog_bluffSent: 9/20/2001 12:47 AM

Hammerstein asks what nonviolent response we can take in Afghanistan.  I've previously mentioned we need- as individuals - to act in accordance with our belief systems.  But there is an approach we could take on the national level - completely separate and distinct from any other military or punitive action being considered.

We can Bomb them with butter.


A military response, particularly an attack on Afghanistan, is exactly what the terrorists want. It will strengthen and swell their small but fanatical ranks.

Instead, bomb Afghanistan with butter, with rice, bread, clothing and medicine. It will cost less than conventional arms, poses no threat of US casualties and just might get the populace thinking that maybe the Taliban don't have the answers. After three years of drought and with starvation looming, let's offer the Afghani people the vision of a new  future. One that includes full stomachs.

Bomb them with information. Video players and cassettes of world leaders, particularly Islamic leaders, condemning terrorism. Carpet the country with with magazines and newspapers showing the horror of terrorism committed by their "guest". Blitz them with laptop computers and DVD players filled with a perspective that is denied them by their  government. Saturation bombing with hope will mean that some of it gets through. Send so much that the Taliban can't collect and hide it all.

The Taliban are telling their people to prepare for Jihad. Instead, let's give the Afghani people their first good meal in years. Seeing your family fully fed and the prospect of stability in terms of food and a future is a powerful deterrent to martyrdom. All we would ask in return is that they, as a people, agree to enter the civilized world. That includes handing over terrorists in their midst.

In responding to terrorism we need to do something different.  Something unexpected..something that addresses the root of the problem. We need to take away the well of despair, ignorance and brutality from which the Osama bin Laden's of the world water their gardens of terror.

thank you, Kent Madin

 


Reply
 Message 9 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLaurelovely01Sent: 9/20/2001 1:15 AM
Troops are being deployed as we speak...how can we get this message to our governements...and make them hear....and make a difference? 

Reply
 Message 10 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKellog_bluffSent: 9/20/2001 11:37 PM

the above message (as well as several others of similar vein - and those of retaliatory violence - ) has already been delivered to Calif's senators and congressmen, as well as to the State Department.  

I didn't expect it to be received with bated breath   the best we as citizens can hope for - and I think we will get --- is that our Leaders will be restrained and prudent in their response, and will take the best interests of the nation and its people into consideration.  But there will be a response.  The terrorists confused the supposed weakness in past american political affairs as to be equated to the spirit of America - and its people.   That was a big strategic mistake

The terrorist leaders did not know the american spirit before --- but they will get an introduction to it now.  

And our president will do his best to respond in a manner reflecting the ideals this country was founded on....That's why he gets paid the big Bucks

 


Reply
 Message 11 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameKellog_bluffSent: 12/22/2008 4:44 AM
seems like it might again be a good time to remind folks that we can also bomb them with butter :-)

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