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British History : Henry V
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(1 recommendation so far) Message 1 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameOwlatnight8880  (Original Message)Sent: 9/27/2007 8:19 AM
Henry V invaded France and defeated their nobility. Was really due to their long bow?









Owl


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 Message 13 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamevicbc6Sent: 9/29/2007 10:19 PM
One  of the reasons that the French  knights  were cut down  was they were riding into an  bottle neck. Add the previously mentioned rain and thats a quagmire. So they were bogged down> The  Welsh archers  let lose and  they  were effective.

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 Message 14 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameOwlatnight8880Sent: 9/29/2007 11:21 PM
I hear that it may have been the men -at arms and not the English nobles did a lot of the killing. that perhaps the bow was not as destructive weapon in this particular battle as it is believed to have been. Most may have been wounded already on the ground? This I got off the history ch. and I know that they cannot always be counted on for the most realistic porttraits of history.


Owl

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 Message 15 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 10/1/2007 1:39 AM
Owl, by body-count I don't doubt that the soldiers killed more than the Nobles.  Finishing off the wounded enemy gave them a chance to pick them clean.  It also let them have a chance on capturing an enemy Noble and sharing in the ransome. 

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 Message 16 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSeafire2092Sent: 2/15/2008 2:19 PM
apparently if a englishman was caught by the french they used to cut of the 2 middle fingers so they could not use the longbow again,our lovely froggie neighbours.

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 17 of 27 in Discussion 
Sent: 2/15/2008 2:50 PM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 18 of 27 in Discussion 
Sent: 2/15/2008 3:20 PM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

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 Message 19 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/15/2008 9:04 PM
The longbow fired a longer projectile, so there was a longer acceleration period.
However, it was only a strip of yew. Look at the "Cupid's bow" shape of the compound bow. This had a far more curved body, and fired a longer arrow. Compound because it was made of sinew and bone as well as wood, in laminations. The advantage was it could be fired from  horseback, as it was shorter from top to bottom.
 
But the cross bow fired a shorter projectile, the fletched  "bolt" for hunting with the "arrowhead" tip, and the quarrel, solid wood flights and body, with a pyramid shape, tapering to the rear, and pointed at the front.of often solid bronze.
Hunting crosbows were often a single wood arc like a bow, and were cocked by standing in a stirrup at front and pulling the string over a sear (hook) connected to a trigger at the back.
 
But the queen of the battlefield was the compound crossbow. The arc was often steel or wood, sinew, and bone laminations, and could be 4-6 " thick at the centre.
 
 This is a da Vinci
showing the Bow at the peak of its development.
For a bow this powerful, you cocked it either with a windlass
 
Problem here is too much cord, getting damp and slack in rain. Note when the cord goes back a certain distance, it is held by the sear and then the windlass is removed ready to shoot
Or you cocked it with a crannequin
 Which is like a car rack and pinion steering mechanism. The hook on the right would hold the cord and brace it back while it's being wound.
 
In use you aimed directly as with a rifle. The cross-bow was slower firing, but far more accurate. And you could train a crossbowman in a week.
 
Think if you like of the volley firing musketeers and the pinpoint slow shooting riflemen of 2 centuries later. And boy! That quarrel was a real armour piercer.
 
Compared with the Red Indians' our bows were far more lethal. They had to riddle their victims to bring them down. Sorry terry.

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 Message 20 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/15/2008 10:00 PM
  
To terminally bore you all this was the last incarnation of the crossbow as a military weapon. Magazine fed, it fired 25 bolts a minute A-A above being the magazine, tilted up to reload. Used against the Japanese in the war of 1895. so weak, the bolts were normally poisoned.

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 Message 21 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 2/15/2008 10:12 PM
Are there any instances of battles won by the crossbow ? We all know about victories with the longbow, but not its neglected cousin.

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 Message 22 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamevicbc6Sent: 2/15/2008 10:37 PM
At Agincourt the mercenaries who had the crossbows ran away under fire from the English longbowmen./ The crossbow fired a haevier arrow bolt acctually but took way too long to make ready to fire. A more recent comparison would be a US civil war soldier 1 with a muzzle loader vs another man with a Henry repeating rifle. If I recall the rate of fire thats 3 rounds per minute, assumming a competent rifleman vs 1o/15 witha Henry repeater and trainging for that was only a bit more complex than witha muzzle loader

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(1 recommendation so far) Message 23 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/15/2008 11:25 PM
I will put it another way. The crossbow was a mercenary's weapon, wheras the longbow was a government mass weapon, but really only had a shortish peak because the training constraints were enormous.
The cross bow probably killed a lot of horsemen and was useful in seiges, being able to go through an arrow-slit.
My guess is the matchlock arquebus which outlasted its successors, the wheelock doglock and snaphaunce over 200 years replaced it.
Vic. The civil war weapon was the rifled Enfield as well, which would outrange the Henry which only fired a weak rimfire round. And was more accurate. |

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 Message 24 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/16/2008 8:36 PM
Another pic.
 
 
Arbalest with crannequin, and a clearer pic of the cocking and string holding arrangements. This primitive trigger mechanism was exported to the Matchlock Musket and finally to all smallarms in a refined form

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 Message 25 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/18/2008 1:51 PM
this is what defeated the French
 

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 Message 26 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBIGSNOWBIRD1Sent: 2/19/2008 12:34 AM

Re 16 Heard the story a little differently. The French cut off only 1 finger the middle finger making drawing the arrow back impossible. The archers that hadn't lost their fingers would taunt the French by raising their middle finger in the customary fickle finger of fate salute

.

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 Message 27 of 27 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 2/19/2008 8:47 AM
Mark prefers #25

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