15 Soothsayer
16 Mattie
Quite so !
And as an aside, IF there has been a cover up of some sort, how does the main guilty party ENSURE the continued silence for all time of all the rest. It could cost millions !

What news could there be in Brum?

Yankee Interloper quote–”Sniffer dogs�?are considered in the United States to be police officers equivalent to human ones. This is because they are incredibly reliable and don’t know how to lie. It is naive to think that just because your pet gets excited at lots of smells, a trained canine officer is similarly easy to distract. If the sniffer dogs say they smelled cadaverine or blood, their indicating they have found these scents is evidence by itself, as any officer’s observation would be.

The Mcs have reportedly had their legal team contact an American lawyer who reportedly had sniffer dog evidence in a case in America discredited by a judge .The sniffer dog evidence was a contributing factor to the man getting a custodial sentence.

GBH

‘What news could there be in Brum?�?/P>

soothsayer understands nudge, nudge, wink, wink

We don’t have free speech in the UK, we have somnething even better, JS Mill’s harm principle, as in say what you like as long as it does not harm someone, plus hyour liberty ends where someone else’s begins.

This means that with Nazi hate sites we just close them down, rather than protect them like in the US.

Please go on the Sun Website and expound your trite observations, because on their forum they think that they have freedom of speech from watching too much US TV all the time, so you will get a more ready and credulous audience, which is obviously what you need, like the McConns.

yankee, i hope you’ll interlope again.

UK papers are this morning stating that certain police officers are under inquiry for alledgedly beating confessions out of people.

If this is the case how can these people be trusted? We had this in the UK in the 70’s and early 80’s where innocent people were ’stitched�?up. They served time (Birmingham 6 etc) before being released.

Should these people have ever been allowed to interview the McCanns?

Can you ever believe anyone (the unanswered 40 questions rumour etc) that beats confessions out of people?

It’s funny how you’ll all moan about Guantanemo Bay being a brutal place but the McCanns must be guilty if they don’t answer the questions that were put to them by aggressive interrogators!

A detective who interrogated Kate McCann is to face trial over accusations that he beat up an innocent man during a police interview.

Tavares Almeida and two other Portuguese officers will be tried over claims they assaulted a robbery suspect and left him with four broken ribs and severe bruising to his throat, stomach and back.

The chief inspector is the second senior detective on the Madeleine McCann inquiry to be implicated in allegations of violence towards suspects in other cases.

His boss Goncalo Amaral was accused of helping to cover up an assault on the mother of another missing girl.

morning will,all i know is that the PJ are and always have been on the right track,despite what you have been hearing the samples are from the renault, the apartment and area around the stairs,again rumour and i cannot stress that enough, says that there are no doubts as to these results and the indications of a corpse having been responsible for large parts of the results.any one ever stop and think what kind of life the twins will have,as they grow up due to this case,worst scenario is that the case is not solved,twins will be forever tainted by association,we all know how cruel kids can be to one and other,once kids start repeating what their parents or family say human nature being what it is,noy a very nice prospect.the twins as Madeleine is,are helpless innocents in all of this.

matty,

american solicitors, like many solicitors of different nationalities, will often do anything for money and/or attention. this doesn’t degrade the accuracy of sniffer dogs.

New head of enquiry was supposed to have been appointed yesterday,Paulo Rebelo. Sorry if this has already been posted, too many to read. Wasn’t he the officer that suggested the Mcs be brought in for questioning?

Have asked this before.

Do you think it is ever justified in the search for justice to apply a little physical persuasion in obtaining a confession or evidence that will help secure a conviction?

This applies to any cases not just this one.

Soothsayer

Is it kids that are cruel or is it the adults that will gossip and rumour and suggest that they know something more about a case than they really do?

anyone else read about the de-scrambled paedo photo interpol is asking the world to help id? http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/127199/paedophiles-photograph-unscrambled-by-interpol.html

Yankee Interloper,

1). No one over here believed in the “miraculous machine�? It was our press just trying to fill up pages with a tongue in cheek report to go along with the many others.
2). The names thing can be but down to the British sense of humour. We like to break down serious matters sometimes with a bit of humour. Likewise, the songs.
Did you know that one out of three Americans weighs as much as the other two?

Without defending the timelines provided by the group, I think it is too much to ask people who have spent a night out drinking to provide precise accounts of their movements.

I would guess they checked less often than stated, but have no way of knowing if this is true or not.
Often I don’t wear a watch on holiday - and how time flies when I’m here on anorak! Sometimes we lose all track of time.

soothsayer

you are not wrong - there is a syingthat says ‘�?the sons always pay for the crimes of the fathers�?

Did you see my post yesterday that stated that cadaverine cannot be removed from car air conditioning systems and rubber as used in door window seals?

interpol link international paedo search: http://www.interpol.int/

Thea- I am not discrediting the abilities of sniffer dogs, if they were useless what would be the point in the high cost of using them. What I was saying was, if a judge can have the sniffer dog evidence thrown out as a means to send a man down it could open the flood gates for other cases. Hence reportedly the Mcs lawyers contacting the lawyers on the American case.
I am lead to believe that the Porugese judge will not use sniffer dog evidence alone to charge the Mcs.

Am I the only one thinking if I recognised the person in the interpol pic, there wouldnt be much for the old bill to apprehend?

Also will publishing the pic force this scum (will not dignify with term man) to go underground?

41, Will,
I noticed your post - what were you up to, making cadaverine?! What an interesting life.

will i don’t believe violent actions by the police are ever justified and simply jeapordise the case and public’s faith in them to uphold the law and protect.

Rosemary

I believe (as stated last week) the key to this case lies in reconstructing everything and applying everything that is known to all sensible theories.

Two point:

1) When you see Portuguese written down, it looks like Spanish. When you hear it, it sounds so different it takes me a while to recognise it as a Latin language.

2) Yankee Interloper’s point: As for the case itself, the thing that makes it so fascinating is that all explanations are equally implausible. Given the facts as they are presented to us, the McCanns simply did not have the time or the materials to hide and then preserve the body (no, “clingfilm�?would NOT work, please just trust me on this and do not try it at home with small dead animals, that’s digusting), yet also the chances of a stranger abduction in a luxury resort are astronomically low. It is a mystery! Clearly, some crucial facts are missing.

I agree wholeheartedly. I suspect we’ve been told some major fib about events: perhaps no one saw Maddie on the fateful day at all. And why hasn’t the British press tracked down other holiday makers at the resort? It is so unusual for there to be so few eye independent witnesses produced, especially in a case of this size, and no, I don’t believe this is due to the Portuguese secrety laws.

36, Will,
I suggest truth drugs and hypnosis.

will, i hope not. maybe they’re already on his trial? i thought it interesting because someone on this forum stated interpol doesn’t work on missing children or paedo cases and also the amazing technology which has brought this criminal’s face to light.

will, i hope not. maybe they’re already on his trial? i thought it interesting because someone on this forum stated interpol doesn’t work on missing children or paedo cases and also the amazing technology which has brought this criminal’s face to light.

gbh my tenet in life is and always has been make up your own mind,do you think Madeleine knew any one who was and is violent,some one close to her perhaps,can you make up your own mind on that,or perhaps you will prefer to say you don’t know,which does not mean that some one out there does not know the answer,be it yes or no.i realy do wish we were discussing something more pleasant,but the public have woken up to the fact that the press here are feeding us a crock of shit,i think the simple reason is that they are making a fortune out of selling papers,simple financial mercanaries,at the expense of the truth and above all the life of Madeleine.

thea

I am not disagreeing with you - I am just interested in the differing answers.

You say that any use of violence leads to loss of faith in the police by the public. However, it could be argued that the public lose more faith in the police every time a ‘guilty�?suspect walks free, having never faced trial due to the police having to conduct themselves within tight restraints, whilst by defenition criminals don’t. Not saying its what I believe but the argument does exist.

50, Thea,
I think this paedophile was careless to use an off-the-shelf computer programme to scramble an image.
One identified it wouldn’t be difficult to reverse the programme and reveal the original image.
It would have been wise to have understood the technology if he intended to use it as a cover-up.

Rosemary

I am warming to truth drugs - know nothing about how effective they are but sounds good in theory.

Not sure about hypnosis, but if Paul McKenna was in the interview room I would confess straightaway rather than hear him drone on and on!

morning all

two points to add - can’t see numbers so sorry!!

Pic of paedophile - i thought it looked a lot like someone we often discuss on this forum!!!

And as far as I’m aware the Birmingham 6 were not acquited- they were released because their conviction was found to be unsafe. They never explained the TNT underneath some of their finger nails etc. I get thoroughly cheesed off when people are released from prison on a technicality and they are reported as being ‘innocent�?/P>

I remember a mother being released because an expert had stood up in court and claimed the likely hood of all three of her children dieing from Sudden Infant Death syndrome was (can’t rememeber the figures) but say 350mill to one. Later his evidence was disclaimed and though the figure was still over a million to one chance of this happening - she was released. She was never acquited, nor were the Birmingham six.

If they had a retrial with the new evidence who knows what the outcome would have been (I suspect they would still have been found guilty).

i see your point matty. i agree sniffer dogs alone won’t stand up in court. i don’t know how portuguese court deals with so called “experts�? in the states they are often used to cause confusion so beyond reasonable doubt is reached without a doubt. causing a hung jury or not guilty verdict. with portuguese courts i understand the trial is conducted by 3 judges and possibly a jury . hopefully if a jury’s decision has any weight it is thoughtfully and judiciously measured by the presiding judges.

53,
Once, not one identified, I meant to say

54, Will,

Yes, I bet Paul McKenna has this figured.

SteveT Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 9:02 am
Did you know that one out of three Americans weighs as much as the other two?

Thank-you for the science lesson Steve - I’d always believed that hot air was weightless. Silly me.

So the PJ man is an out and out bastard because he is alleged to have beaten a suspect (never happened here I imagine), whereas our boys in blue are the worlds finest because all they do is pump 15 bullets into a totally innocent man, whose only crime appears to be hurrying to catch his train.
The press in this country are going overboard in their efforts to portray the PJ as Third World bunglers and the McCanns as paragons of virtue - what are they going to do when these shits are wearing prison weeds?

Rosemary

It was recently announced that Paul McKenna was the UKs biggest selling non-fiction author. I don’t know what my point is - but another bit of trivia to the collection lol

Teddy Boy

Todays front pages (only a glance at the newsagents at this stage) seem to be very different to yesterdays!

Matty
Rebelo was the officer that investigated the famous Lisbon paedophile ring many years ago.

rosemary,

i am not a computer imaging expert but i feel the german specialists who descrambled the photo deserve credit. i personally don’t care if the paedo was ‘careless�?with his programme choice. even the most organised criminals make mistakes. i for one am thankful. since this is a forum about an alleged missing child i thought the subject matter relevant.

Teddy Boy-Good move on the Porugese officials side to get this man off the case, whether he is the bogey man or not, whether they demoted or promoted him in his new position. Imagine the press the case would get if the Mcs are charged and the bogey man is still head of investigation. I would imagine there will be no dirt to dish on the new bloke. He is described as a veteran and I think the new bloke was the one that suggested the Mcs be taken in for questioning.

36 will

Are you kidding? The answer is NO and must always be that.

The Real Stig

Am I kidding? No, I think it is a valid question. Can I ask you why you say no?

64, thea,

I agree, all credit to the German computer specialists, and yes the story is relevant - thought so myself when I read it last night.

New head of investigation and Clarences talk of the Mcs making a voluntary return to Portugal. Good advice on the voluntary return looks a bit better that they are already in the country when they are asked to go back in to be requestioned. ie well we were having dinner and quiz at the Tapas bar and just popped in to see the new head for a coffee.

will, i didn’t think we were disagreeing only discussing the pros an cons of police brutality. although i see your pov, i still believe the police have to maintain diplomacy. i think they can use other forms of coercion like psychological which can be even more effective than physical harm.

i do see your point but feel conflicted because if they do employ violence to get a confession or important information then this will be tainted. if it doesn’t effect the outcome of that trial then it will eventually come back to haunt them. so i don’t believe the shortsightedness of violence or even physical threats is beneficial in the long term.

An excerpt from the UK times article this morning.

“Meanwhile, in the latest blow to the police investigation, it was revealed that the Portuguese detective who questioned Mrs McCann is being prosecuted for allegedly torturing an innocent robbery suspect.

Tavares Almeida was the deputy head of the inquiry but recently asked to be taken off the case on unpaid leave.

It has emerged that he is facing trial for allegedly inflicting a severe beating on innocent man along with two other police officers.

The Portuguese daily newspaper Jornal de Noticias reported that 48-year-old Almeida will face trial over allegations that seven years ago he beat up a railway worker suspected of being part of a notorious gang who sexually assaulted children in a park and coerced them into mugging people.

The suspect, who suffered four broken ribs and bruising to his throat, stomach and back, was later acquitted of all charges at trial.

The Policia Judiciaria refused to comment on the allegations, as did the McCann family’s spokesman�?/P>

63, Carmen,
The Lisbon case is ongoing - not ancient history!

35 noseycow

When you think statistical probability is enough to convict someone of a crime, you no longer have a legal system, you have a casino.

Tuesday, 9 October 2007
Paulo Rebelo is the new man in charge of Madeleine’s case
A national deputy-director of Polícia Judiciária was appointed to replace Gonçalo Amaral in the investigation of Madeleine’s disappearance. Paulo Rebelo has a career in the investigation of drug trafficking, but was also in charge the “Mea-Culpa case�? 10 years ago, where 13 persons died in an arson. He was also in charge of a recent investigation about a leak of information from the “Freeport case�? when documents from a corruption investigation were sent to the Press and published the day before the last Parliament elections in Portugal. Those documents allegedly showed a connection between the case and the leader of Socialist Party, José Sócrates, now Prime-Minister. A PJ inspector was accused and later sentenced to eight months in prison (suspended sentence) for making copies of confidential documents and giving it to journalists.

Isn’t it strange that there have been none of those ‘I know Gerry and Kate and they are wonderful/psychotic/aliens etc�?stories from friends, enemies, patients, fellow villagers?
Normally these people crawl from the woodwork at the mere hint of scandal, yet so far the only character references have come predominantly from the ‘Tapas group�?
Just seems odd.

thea

Thanks for the well thought out answer.

The reason I ask the question is the conflict you mention. I do not have a fixed opinion on this one, which is why I ask the question.

On a basic level I think beating the shit out of someone to gain a confession is wrong, period.

On the other hand if a child abuser or drug dealer were to be banged up and off the streets as a result of a couple of let hooks…………�?

36, Will

Do you think it is ever justified in the search for justice to apply a little physical persuasion in obtaining a confession or evidence that will help secure a conviction?

The problem with that question Will is that what actually constitutes as a “little physical persausion�?will vary from police force to police force. That would be very difficult to control.

my point real stig was that this probability was a small (some may say insignificant) part of the trial, but because it was later refuted the conviction - from all of the evidence, was deemed to be ‘unsafe�?and was therefore overturned. In my mind this does not amount to the person being innocent. Just entitled to huge amounts of money from the British taxpayer.

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/10/mccann-lawyers-warning-to-prosecutor.html now why would they do that,you would think that they might have the savvy to wait until some one was charged,perhaps they know some one is going to be,sort of get your retaliation in first.

dora

good point - one mans high jinx is anothers assualt.

the question that then needs to be answered is - in the pursuit of criminals how much does the end justify the means.

will,

i know what you mean and completely understand. i empathise with the police and detectives. i think they have a really difficult important role in society and are often not paid very well and sadly hated just for wearing the uniform. i respect officers of the law but cast a slightly jaundiced eye for proper balance. power is known to corrupt and it is foolish to believe the police impervious to temptations or are perfect law officers when dealing with such disgusting people on a regular basis.

Jim 9.12 am
I agree, where are all the witnesses. Normally the newspapers find many people who want to tell their ’story�?

Even if the police want events kept quiet for quite legitimate reasons, there are usually people who want the attention prepared to tell all they know, especially if they are no longer in Portugal.

I have always wondered if Madeleine could initally have been in one of the other apartments, and could even have been taken back to uk very early on, a day or two- 4th or 5th May perhaps. No-one would have been looking out for that at the beginning as all the attention was on PDL.
This case could easily end up like
Who shot JFK
Did America go to the moon
What really happened to Marilyn Monroe
What really happened to Princess Diana

A little light relief-

A gendarme in Paris last Friday night pulled over a driver who had

been weaving in and out of the traffic.

He approached the car window and said “Sir I need you to blow into

this breathalyser�?

The man reaches into his pocket and produces a doctor’s note. On it

was written:

“This man suffers from chronic asthma. Do not make him perform any

action that may leave him short of breath�?

The gendarme said “Okay then I need you to come and give a blood

sample�?/P>

The man produced another letter. This one said: “This man is a

haemophiliac. Please do not cause him to bleed in any way�?

So the officer said: “Right, I need a urine sample then�?

The man produces a third letter from his pocket.

It read: “This man plays rugby for New Zealand , please don’t take the piss

out of him�?/P>

Soothsayer

Don’t go any further! What planet are they on. Why not wave a red flag to a bull!

If the PJ team were led by two people under invstigation for beating confessions out of people, that would be enough for the McCann’s to very reasonably leave Portugal and obtain the services of leading extradition lawyers, in my view. The knowledge of their alleged brutality together with very probable “threats�?which were made during interrogation, or questioning, would be enough to get out of there as fast as possible. If this is the way the Portuguese police behave who would want to go there?

watching that video was bizzare
it was similar to watching a playstation 2 version of a film you watched last summer!

will they do a police version of the missing hours with tennis, creche, and restaurant timings?

true. statistics do reduce the world to one big roulette wheel. which is why they also shouldn’t be used in arguments attempting to prove why it was okay for the mccanns and tapas 7 to leave their children without sitters.

67 will

What do you do about all the truly innocent people to whom a beating is administered. If you were wrongly arrested and beaten, would you be happy with that knowing occasionally it helps convict a real criminal?

If the Police are allowed to beat confessions out of people, they will come to accept the method as normal and will do it regularly. Not only that, but if a ‘little�?force proves helpful, and you have someone for whom it doesn’t seem to work, why not use a bit more force until there is a regular procession of ambulances carrying away the bodies from police stations to the morgues.

I could go on and on but if you don’t get it, you don’t get it.

[…] - Madeleine McCann: The Tapas Grou .. […]

74, thea
You may well ask why a trial investigating paedophilia in a childrens home, which opened in 2004 is ongoing.
Princess Diana died 10 years ago and her inquest isn’t over.

wonder is the house bugged in england

roger,

if one bases where they travel upon alleged reports of police brutality, government corruption and the like we’d never leave our own backyards. or are you one of those?

theres a new thread

1 for pr mc cann and 1 for the armchair detectives

Ooohhhhh - if they’re doing Playstation games can we have one where we have a secret machine that can find missing DNA?
The game could take place in Portugal and you have to run around the streets, apartments and beaches collecting DNA while being chased by evil PJs and newspaper reporters.

75, Tracey,
I have seen some TV interviews with their neighbours who said they seemed to be a good caring family etc.,etc.
If there haven’t been many, it is probably an indication that their friends are loyal.

rosemary, to which paedo case are you referring? i hadn’t asked any questions. not that i am not interested. just confused a little by your comment.

Are we supposed to be here or on another anorak page?

Rosemary - no one can know what goes on in a family apart from those directly involved. Everything about the McC’s is just TOO perfect, any other couple would have someone come forward and tell a story about when K or G shouted at their kids for no reason. I think that G is one of those people who has to show the world a ‘perfect�?family regardless of what the actual truth is. Maybe there is some truth about Madeleine and the Charge Syndrome? Perhaps she was reaching an age when it was getting difficult to cover up her problems?
Word in the hospitals is that G McC is a ‘hard nosed b@@@@@d�?/FONT> but most people their are not familiar with the family man - only G the cardiologist.

78 noseycow

She was acquitted, which means innocent in the eyes of the law. If you want to consider your opinions superior to the legal system, that is your prerogative. The Paediatricians opinion and expertise was not a minor factor in the case.

80, Will,

Again that will vary depending on the police force. Would you perfer to be jailed in Thailand or the US for drug charges? Every country has different ethics, policing policies and will exert force according to how they view the offence.

real stig - are you changing youe mind about the use of statistics in court???

98, noseycow,

I agree, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors.
That’s why bugging is so helpful!

with you there Rosemary - I wouldn’t mind being bugged - might give someone a laugh if they could be bothered to plough through the chaos of my family life!!

99 rosemary

Do you mean a link detailing the current progress and outcome?

Jeez, if they bugged my house they would be carting me off in an instant.

Tracey - I assume we’d all be carted off - just for being on this site!!!! and on that note I’m off to bed - was a long hard night shift..though fortunately no cadavarine (is that how it’s spelt)!!

Thea, I am quite prepared to believe that some countries have brutal police forces. Portugal is no stranger to these allegations see for example: CERD 65th session: Report of Portugal; UNITED NATIONS
Press Release, 13 August 2004- random google page.

If you get entangled with them then you may have cause to be scared. Police brutality cannot be justified regardless of whether the suspect is later proven to be guilty. If we wish to describe ourselves as civilised we have to maintain some minimum standards.

Tony Bennett Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 7:23 am
Abuse? click date link above, then copy the URL/web address from your browser & email it here
Computer programs like this are very useful and in this case appear to show that an abductor would have little chance of entering the apartment and removing Madeleine without being seen by one of the ‘Tapas 9�?

What a load of crap!

The first thing that strikes me odd about that statement is how the McCann haters find it incredulous that they could of left the tots on their own in that apartment with the ‘out of sight out of mind�?attitude they believe they Mc’s had. Oh and it takes about 5 mins to walk to the apartment. And now it is claimed that there would of been little chance of someone taking Madeleine without being seen due to the regular number of checks!

So which is it?

Which ever one suits is the answer.

Anyway, I thought one of those at the tapas bar did see what she thought was Madeleine being taken away? Hmm

75 tracey

That is not correct:

http://tinyurl.com/2lolxq

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYSjEVslhgOh09hPIpwXbHyNW_bA

not a ludricous in sight

no rosemary it wasn’t me but thanks for the link. i’ve been following the case.

garth, i love when you say “incredulous�? your beautiful blue eyes roll upwards and then flash brilliantly as they come down.

103, Rosemary and Noseycow

The McCans apparently were bugged - emails, telephone calls and even surviellance of car journeys. Robert Murat was also under surveilance before he was made an argido.

Noseycow you say,

“I wouldn’t mind being bugged - might give someone a laugh if they could be bothered to plough through the chaos of my family life!!�?Are you 100% sure about that.

Would you then agree to the idea of collecting all DNA from birth into a collective database?

Interesting article,
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/13/genewatch_dna_database/

105, The Real Stig,

Yes, I think the case is due to resume, do you know more details?

53 rosemary

What else do we have access to other than offf the shelf software? If you think the German guys effort in unswirling that image was anything less than an incredible bit of work, I can swirl a photo and upload it for you to see how difficult it would have been.

The guy did an incredible job and it wasn’t easy. I would say he would have had to write his own software to try and reverse the effect of the original software. That isn’t easy because it looks like the data isn’t just altered, some of it is completely lost.

clarence is on this morning

115 rosemary

Nothing current, though there is a lot that can be found out about the case.

Re surveillance, weren’t the September 11 and July 7 bombers supposedly on watch lists?
Not exactly infallible, was it?

108 Rodger,

Robert Murat said this about the PJ (daily mail excerpt July 16th)

“I am the only suspect and it could take years for them to release me from the investigation. I was questioned all last week but it’s still far from certain what is going to happen.

“They have to find enough evidence to present a judge with a case, and it appears they do not have enough information to do that.

“If they let me go it will look like they have no idea and they do not want to do that. There is a huge difference in the mentality of the Portuguese police and detectives in the UK,�?Murat added.

Last week Murat underwent four days of interrogation by Portuguese police over contradictions in the alibi he gave for the night of 3 May when Madeleine was snatched from the family’s holiday complex.

Madeleine McCann, aged 4, was snatched on 3 May

“When anything bad happens in Portugal people disappear, they run and they hide and now I understand why they do it.

“I have thought about it but it would not be fair on my family. The law here dates back to the days of fascism and it shows. I am putting my life at risk just by speaking like this.�?/P>

116,
The Real Stig,
I will have to consult my resident software expert about that, on his return.

Here’s a quote -

“Gerry McCann told Schindler, “I’m sure most people can imagine how bad it was that first night �?how terrifying it was and, as most parents would say, the parents�?worst nightmare. �?/P>

They don’t “own�?their responsibilties or their own emotions. With responsibilites, they tend to justify their actions by pointing out that “everyone else�?does x, like go out leaving their kids asleep at home. Or, the authorities in the USA (some organisation that deals with missing kids) said it was OK and correct to put out Madeleine’s photo everywhere, although they were advised by the police that it would be a death sentence if she had been abducted.

In the quote above, Gerry doesn’t say “It was really bad the first night�?it was a nightmare.�?That would be describing HIS OWN feelings.

Instead he says “I’m sure MOST PEOPLE CAN IMAGINE how bad it was that first night �?how terrifying it was and, AS MOST PARENTS WOULD SAY, the parents�?worst nightmare. �?/P>

What he is NOT saying is what HE went through, only what most people would imagine and what most parents would say.

Narcissists have very shallow affect, they really don’t have many emotions at all, so they imitate what they see in people around them,or they make suggestions and allow us to “fill in�?the appropriate emotions that we would ourselves feel, without actually them having to state it. See how that works in the above statement?

Ok this is stupid, now I have noticed that there are 2 seperate forums going on regarding the McCanns on this site, both dated Oct 9th. Better go, it requires too much time to keep up.

i have honestly never heard kate or gerry say anything expressing concern overe what little madeleine must be feeling or going though. it is very odd the way their interviews have been overwhelmingly about kate and gerry. very little in the way of concern for madeleine. at first i thought it was just because they didn’t wish to ignite their emotions in public. i thought for sure their love and concern would be evident in the written word like gerry’s blog or for f***’s sake on the madeleine site itself but no real sincere emotion at all to be gleaned there either.

78 noseycow

She was acquitted, which means innocent in the eyes of the law. If you want to consider your opinions superior to the legal system, that is your prerogative. The Paediatricians opinion and expertise was not a minor factor in the case.

80, Will,

Again that will vary depending on the police force. Would you perfer to be jailed in Thailand or the US for drug charges? Every country has different ethics, policing policies and will exert force according to how they view the offence.

real stig - are you changing youe mind about the use of statistics in court???

98, noseycow,

I agree, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors.
That’s why bugging is so helpful!

with you there Rosemary - I wouldn’t mind being bugged - might give someone a laugh if they could be bothered to plough through the chaos of my family life!!

99 rosemary

Do you mean a link detailing the current progress and outcome?

Jeez, if they bugged my house they would be carting me off in an instant.

Tracey - I assume we’d all be carted off - just for being on this site!!!! and on that note I’m off to bed - was a long hard night shift..though fortunately no cadavarine (is that how it’s spelt)!!

Thea, I am quite prepared to believe that some countries have brutal police forces. Portugal is no stranger to these allegations see for example: CERD 65th session: Report of Portugal; UNITED NATIONS
Press Release, 13 August 2004- random google page.

If you get entangled with them then you may have cause to be scared. Police brutality cannot be justified regardless of whether the suspect is later proven to be guilty. If we wish to describe ourselves as civilised we have to maintain some minimum standards.

Tony Bennett Says:
October 9th, 2007 at 7:23 am
Abuse? click date link above, then copy the URL/web address from your browser & email it here
Computer programs like this are very useful and in this case appear to show that an abductor would have little chance of entering the apartment and removing Madeleine without being seen by one of the ‘Tapas 9�?

What a load of crap!

The first thing that strikes me odd about that statement is how the McCann haters find it incredulous that they could of left the tots on their own in that apartment with the ‘out of sight out of mind�?attitude they believe they Mc’s had. Oh and it takes about 5 mins to walk to the apartment. And now it is claimed that there would of been little chance of someone taking Madeleine without being seen due to the regular number of checks!

So which is it?

Which ever one suits is the answer.

Anyway, I thought one of those at the tapas bar did see what she thought was Madeleine being taken away? Hmm

75 tracey

That is not correct:

http://tinyurl.com/2lolxq

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hYSjEVslhgOh09hPIpwXbHyNW_bA

not a ludricous in sight

no rosemary it wasn’t me but thanks for the link. i’ve been following the case.

garth, i love when you say “incredulous�? your beautiful blue eyes roll upwards and then flash brilliantly as they come down.

103, Rosemary and Noseycow

The McCans apparently were bugged - emails, telephone calls and even surviellance of car journeys. Robert Murat was also under surveilance before he was made an argido.

Noseycow you say,

“I wouldn’t mind being bugged - might give someone a laugh if they could be bothered to plough through the chaos of my family life!!�?Are you 100% sure about that.

Would you then agree to the idea of collecting all DNA from birth into a collective database?

Interesting article,
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/01/13/genewatch_dna_database/

105, The Real Stig,

Yes, I think the case is due to resume, do you know more details?

53 rosemary

What else do we have access to other than offf the shelf software? If you think the German guys effort in unswirling that image was anything less than an incredible bit of work, I can swirl a photo and upload it for you to see how difficult it would have been.

The guy did an incredible job and it wasn’t easy. I would say he would have had to write his own software to try and reverse the effect of the original software. That isn’t easy because it looks like the data isn’t just altered, some of it is completely lost.

clarence is on this morning

115 rosemary

Nothing current, though there is a lot that can be found out about the case.

Re surveillance, weren’t the September 11 and July 7 bombers supposedly on watch lists?
Not exactly infallible, was it?

108 Rodger,

Robert Murat said this about the PJ (daily mail excerpt July 16th)

“I am the only suspect and it could take years for them to release me from the investigation. I was questioned all last week but it’s still far from certain what is going to happen.

“They have to find enough evidence to present a judge with a case, and it appears they do not have enough information to do that.

“If they let me go it will look like they have no idea and they do not want to do that. There is a huge difference in the mentality of the Portuguese police and detectives in the UK,�?Murat added.

Last week Murat underwent four days of interrogation by Portuguese police over contradictions in the alibi he gave for the night of 3 May when Madeleine was snatched from the family’s holiday complex.

Madeleine McCann, aged 4, was snatched on 3 May

“When anything bad happens in Portugal people disappear, they run and they hide and now I understand why they do it.

“I have thought about it but it would not be fair on my family. The law here dates back to the days of fascism and it shows. I am putting my life at risk just by speaking like this.�?/P>

116,
The Real Stig,
I will have to consult my resident software expert about that, on his return.

Here’s a quote -

“Gerry McCann told Schindler, “I’m sure most people can imagine how bad it was that first night �?how terrifying it was and, as most parents would say, the parents�?worst nightmare. �?/P>

They don’t “own�?their responsibilties or their own emotions. With responsibilites, they tend to justify their actions by pointing out that “everyone else�?does x, like go out leaving their kids asleep at home. Or, the authorities in the USA (some organisation that deals with missing kids) said it was OK and correct to put out Madeleine’s photo everywhere, although they were advised by the police that it would be a death sentence if she had been abducted.

In the quote above, Gerry doesn’t say “It was really bad the first night�?it was a nightmare.�?That would be describing HIS OWN feelings.

Instead he says “I’m sure MOST PEOPLE CAN IMAGINE how bad it was that first night �?how terrifying it was and, AS MOST PARENTS WOULD SAY, the parents�?worst nightmare. �?/P>

What he is NOT saying is what HE went through, only what most people would imagine and what most parents would say.

Narcissists have very shallow affect, they really don’t have many emotions at all, so they imitate what they see in people around them,or they make suggestions and allow us to “fill in�?the appropriate emotions that we would ourselves feel, without actually them having to state it. See how that works in the above statement?

Ok this is stupid, now I have noticed that there are 2 seperate forums going on regarding the McCanns on this site, both dated Oct 9th. Better go, it requires too much time to keep up.

i have honestly never heard kate or gerry say anything expressing concern overe what little madeleine must be feeling or going though. it is very odd the way their interviews have been overwhelmingly about kate and gerry. very little in the way of concern for madeleine. at first i thought it was just because they didn’t wish to ignite their emotions in public. i thought for sure their love and concern would be evident in the written word like gerry’s blog or for f***’s sake on the madeleine site itself but no real sincere emotion at all to be gleaned there either.