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General : John 18:2 (Betrayal will Come, then What?)
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 Message 1 of 21 in Discussion 
From: Floyd  (Original Message)Sent: 10/15/2008 2:29 AM

Now Judas, who betrayed Him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with His disciples.- John 18:2

October 6, 2008 Floyd Ray Gage

Being betrayed is a heart-wrenching thing to happen to anyone, but to someone who doesn’t deserve it, it is even more devastating. Jesus was no exception. He knew that Judas was going to betray Him. He allowed Judas to leave and do so, but that didn’t lessen the impact upon Jesus.

Jesus had spent three years with this man. He had loved this man even though He knew that Judas would ultimately betray Him. He had taught this man, even though He knew His teachings would not sink into that cold and stony heart.

Were there times that Jesus sat and ate with Judas and then had to get up and leave to weep, because He knew what Judas would ultimately do to Him? There had to be times that Jesus desired that there was some way other than outright stripping him of his free will to bring Judas to salvation and redemption.

Judas was Jesus�?friend and companion. He was there for every miracle. He heard every word of life. He saw every tear shed and watched every outreached hand of mercy and love. Still Judas was hardened and chose to betray the One who loved Him more than anyone else ever could or would.

Judas teaches us many things. First, he teaches us that Jesus knows what it is like to be betrayed by one that He loved. He understands when we are in anguish because someone has taken our trust and used it in ways that hurt us. He can also help us to forgive that person and move on, because He forgave Judas and went on to redeem mankind. Judas didn’t make it to heaven because he didn’t accept the love and forgiveness of Christ. I firmly believe that if Judas had gone to the foot of the cross and grabbed the bleeding feet of Jesus and asked for forgiveness, Jesus would have given it to him.. He chose instead to go to another tree and try to take matters into his own hands by hanging himself.

Jesus knows and is there with us when we are used and abused by someone we trusted. He can help us if we will trust Him and not try to take matters into our own hands and settle the debt.

Judas also teaches us that we will be betrayed at some point in our lives. I deal with parents and church members who have been betrayed. I deal with children who have been betrayed by the ones that are supposed to be the ones that protect them. Betrayal occurs because of sin and selfishness. We will suffer this at some point in our lives and more than likely we will betray someone in some way during our life.

Be prepared and don’t be surprised when betrayal comes. Don’t sink into revenge or into self-pity and stop living because of the betrayal. I know how deep this knife sinks into your heart. I know how desperately you want justice and to set the scales straight. God is the one who we must turn to and trust in these times of betrayal. He will work His perfect will and can keep us untainted by a sinful response if we will trust Him. He will take care of things and redeem the betrayer if they will let Him.

If you have betrayed someone, even if it is the Lord, ask God for forgiveness and then go ask the one that you betrayed for forgiveness as well. Betrayal doesn’t have to be the end, but it will take the power of Christ to set things right and help you move on in your life in trust to Him and rebuilding the confidence of those you have betrayed. Judas betrayed the Lord and himself. Let’s make a better choice than he did!



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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 7 of 21 in Discussion 
Sent: 10/27/2008 12:00 PM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

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 Message 8 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 10/28/2008 1:12 PM
Were there times that Jesus sat and ate with Judas and then had to get up and leave to weep, because He knew what Judas would ultimately do to Him?
 
"NO" is the answer.  In our desire to make God just like us, we humanize Jesus Christ (who is God) to the point where He is a mirror image of us.  We are wrong to do that.
 
Your statement above is PURE SPECULATION, which appeals to Doz but does not appeal to me, because it is not supported by Scripture.  The Bible never says that Christ "had to get up and leave to weep" over Judas nor does it ever insinuate or imply that He did.
 
Stick with the Bible.  I know that's difficult for you because you are a disciple of Ellen Gould Harmon White and the manna from heaven (plain old Jesus Christ) isn't good enough for you - you want to remake Him into your image, after the example of Mrs. White, and while most of what you post is ok, this one is not, and I will always stand against speculations that are Biblically insupportable, whether yours, Mrs. White's, or anyone else's.

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 9 of 21 in Discussion 
Sent: 10/29/2008 12:13 PM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

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 Message 10 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 10/29/2008 1:04 PM
So please MrWonder..... stop speculating....
 
Friend, that is exactly what I am against - Floyd's speculations.
 
I don't speculate.  I teach the Bible.

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 11 of 21 in Discussion 
Sent: 10/29/2008 1:09 PM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

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 Message 12 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 10/30/2008 12:51 PM
what if the bible went against Southern baptist teaching? What do you hold more dear?
 
You don't know me either or you would never ask.
 
Anyway..... I was talking about speculating about me.... It seems like you can tell people all about what I think without asking
 
I am not speculating period, neither about you nor anything else on this thread.  I have not said one word about you and the only thing I said TO you was:
Friend, that is exactly what I am against - Floyd's speculations.
I don't speculate.  I teach the Bible.

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 Message 13 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 10/30/2008 12:52 PM
I did say Floyd's statement appealed to you, because you said it first.  That is hardly speculating or telling what you think without asking.
 
It's like the old question, "Can the devil read minds?"  The answer is "He doesn't have to - we tell him everything."  You said plainly you like what Floyd said.  I don't have to ask - you already told.

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 Message 14 of 21 in Discussion 
From: FloydSent: 11/2/2008 11:00 PM
I cannot read the interchange between you and DOZ so I don't know all that was said. I will say that you are wrong to say that I am a disciple of anyone save Jesus Christ. I teach the Bible also sir and you are wrong to say I do not. I don't understand why this has hit you as hard as it has and why you have responded with the venom that you have, but you are wrong about me and you should be careful about saying some of the things you have said. I asked a question. I didn't say whether Christ did or not. I know that CHrist said that he had prayed for Peter and anguished over him and so I don't think that it is out of character to say that Jesus wept over Judas. The Scriptures tell us that Jesus wept over unrepentant Jerusalem. I believe in the literal truth of Scripture but to say that I am unbiblical by asking a question that helps us to possibly understand the sense of betrayal Christ and God felt that would help us better understand our hearts and reactions in betrayal is going way to far. Sir, you are not the only authority or teacher and please be careful in insinuating things that are not true of others.
In Christ,
Floyd

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 Message 15 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/3/2008 1:09 PM
 
Were there times that Jesus sat and ate with Judas and then had to get up and leave to weep, because He knew what Judas would ultimately do to Him?
 
"NO" is the answer.  In our desire to make God just like us, we humanize Jesus Christ (who is God) to the point where He is a mirror image of us.  We are wrong to do that.
 
Your statement above is PURE SPECULATION, which appeals to Doz but does not appeal to me, because it is not supported by Scripture.  The Bible never says that Christ "had to get up and leave to weep" over Judas nor does it ever insinuate or imply that He did.
 
Stick with the Bible.  I know that's difficult for you because you are a disciple of Ellen Gould Harmon White and the manna from heaven (plain old Jesus Christ) isn't good enough for you - you want to remake Him into your image, after the example of Mrs. White, and while most of what you post is ok, this one is not, and I will always stand against speculations that are Biblically insupportable, whether yours, Mrs. White's, or anyone else's.
 

 
The above is what I said.  Doz's reponse was just complaints against what I wrote, because she likes you.

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 Message 16 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/3/2008 1:11 PM
I don't think that it is out of character to say that Jesus wept over Judas.
 
That is speculation.  The Bible does not say it.  If you can speculate on the Lord weeping over Judas then I can speculate with equal authority on Jack and the Beanstalk being in the Gospels.

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 Message 17 of 21 in Discussion 
From: FloydSent: 11/8/2008 1:55 AM
The Bible tells us that not everything that Jesus said and did is included in Scripture. If it was the books would fill the world as John said it. to say that Christ wept over the unrepentant heart of Judas and the fact that His creation was going to damn himself to hell is not out of character at all. I am a disciple of Christ and Christ alone. I believe the Bible. This ends my discussion of this.
Floyd

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 Message 18 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 11/24/2008 2:36 PM
To say anything about God that is not supported by Scripture and to assume that one is correct is the sin of presumption.
 
That's why you folks have the writings of Ellen White - you accept extraBiblical revelation - I DON'T.
 
You can make up your own god - I CANNOT.
 
To the Bible and the Bible alone and my Bible does not record Christ weeping over Judas.  HE KNEW Judas was a devil before He chose him and He chose him KNOWING that Judas would betray Him.
 
Hardly something to weep over, but IF HE DID the Bible does not say it and I will not say it either.  I am not smarter than God.

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 Message 19 of 21 in Discussion 
From: FloydSent: 11/30/2008 11:48 PM
but you do consider yourself smarter than everyone else I guess.

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 Message 20 of 21 in Discussion 
From: FloydSent: 11/30/2008 11:54 PM
I have seen this happen so much in Christianity. We attack each other over insignificant things and people are dying and going to hell. We turn and devour one another over things that just don't matter. I am not being unbiblical at all. If you knew who you were talking to you would know how ludicrous that claim is.  I would surmise that you are a fundamentalist. I am as well in that I believe the Word of God to be perfect and without error. I am not a political fundamentalist that strains at gnats and argues over things that just honestly don't matter. Jesus does weep over our sin because God weeps over it as well. To say that Jesus didn't care about Judas because He already knew what he was going to do is wrong. Christ cares about all of us even those that will never accept Him. God would have that none are condemned but that all come to saving knowledge of Him through Christ. God wanted Judas to come to that saving knowledge as well, but knew He wouldn't. Start concentrating on what's truly important please. Whether Jesus wept over Judas or not is not something to break fellowship over. Believe the Bible but don't distort it's message by straining at things that just aren't important. A relationship with Christ is what is important. Concentrate on helping others get to that!

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 Message 21 of 21 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_MrWonder_Sent: 12/1/2008 3:09 PM
Fidelity to Scripture alone is not insignificant.  Scripture is God's Word - everything else is man's (or woman's) word.  Take your pick. I took mine many years ago.
 
If everyone else accepts something besides the Bible as inspired of God, then YES, I am smarter than everyone else.
 
To the Bible alone.  Don't add to it and don't take away from it.

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