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Animal Contact : Animal Soul/Meat Eating/Existence - Another View
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 Message 1 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWolf19502  (Original Message)Sent: 10/6/2007 5:48 PM
Hello to all,
      I was just reading some of the messages under the title "Animal Soul and Meat Eating" and I must be in a very receptive/open condition today because I had a very interesting series of conversations with several animals - a cow, a bison/american buffalo, a sheep and an African lion. I will admit that I asked for information but they contacted me with answers/responses.
       The cow was a dairy cow, chewing her cud and she told me that cows had long ago traded some independence for protection/security. She explained that they view this as "continued existence - continued existence for the long term" in return for what they give humans. She sees a time when they will evolve and move into another phase of existence, but it is far away and they need time to work on this. So they trade for this time with humans. At the time the "trade" was instituted, there was a major sense of "thankfulness and accomplishment and honor" on the part of both sides of the bargain. "You, humans have forgotten so much which we remember as part of our group consciousness - a group consciousness that humans have 'tossed away'. But we honor  it even though we are not offered as much 'honor' as in the past. It is important for us".
      I got the same story from a sheep, an ewe. Sheep made much the same trade and are looking forward to the same evolution.
      The buffalo/bison was very different, he informed me that he and his had made the decision to make their own way. But he said that in the past there was a different relationship. The indians of the past and buffalo honored and respected each other. "They  killed us and we killed them at times, but all was done with a sense of honor and respect. We were equals in many ways - but this is not recognizable by humans today who see us as dumb beasts." He went on to tell me that eventually they had to accept help from humans to survive, but they did not "submit" as did domesticated animals, they are different.
      The African lion was also very aware - he said they live free and don't want humans, they have no use for humans. When I mentioned lions in zoos and parks he let me know quickly that they had made a choice to be there for other reasons, to educate, to learn, to let people know who they are. But they are essentially, free and separate from humans.
      These were fantastic conversations, it was almost as if I was standing next to these proud, beautiful animals. They treated me with grace and respect and I offered the same to them and I thanked them and am thanking them again for the time, knowledge and conversation. I hope to talk with them again.
 
Paul
 


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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 2 of 10 in Discussion 
Sent: 10/6/2007 8:05 PM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

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 Message 3 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLynzi_GSEtcMgrSent: 10/6/2007 8:30 PM
Paul,
What I get (in my limited experience) with the cow is much like you got. They seem to be a nurturing soul and are honored to trade services (so to speak) with humans.
 
I also, myself believe that they deserve much more respect than is given by humans. That is a spiritual thing that we have to work on.
 
I know the Native American culture has much respect for the Bison/Buffalo. Thats documented in history from way back. The Native American people were saddened by what white man did to the Bison if the hunt was done by them.
 
I am sensing a great deal of fear of humans from a Pig. Not sure if I'm onto something or not, I'll let you confirm or deny. I get shyness, skittishness....

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 Message 4 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameherbalista23Sent: 10/7/2007 8:00 PM
Hi, Paul,
Thank you for sharing this! I thought I had replied, but I can't find my post, so I guess it got lost in the cyber-ether.

I'd love to know what the animals have to say about ethical vegetarianism. Are the people on the right track, are they well meaning but misunderstanding the whole situation?
I also find the discussion of intelligence interesting. It's a long-standing metaphysical view that consciousness and wisdom in human beings is not dependent upon intelligence, i.e. the wisdom of fools, etc. I can't see that animals would be any different.

I've been an ethical vegetarian off and on for quite a while, but deliberately stepped off the wagon this weekend. I mostly just wanted to see how it would feel. I'm not happy with it, and I'm back on my peanut butter and tofu. I'm thinking that there's nothing inherently wrong with eating meat, but that if one gets into a certain space, it's not a good thing for the individual, for reasons we may not understand, vibratory or whatever. I did a type of meditation years ago that taught us not to eat garlic and onions, two of my favorite things in the world. I should say USUALLY favorite; when I went to the grocery store during that period, all I could smell was the garlic and onions. It was disgusting!

Paul, I'd love to be able to "converse" with animals the way you do. I've done a couple of animal readings, but they were basically visual, with the animals sending me thought pictures. (One dog wanted a red toy, the one color he didn't have, and he wanted to go to Starbucks, where his owner always let him have the foam and cream off the top of her beverage!) Any hints on how to move to conversation?

XOXO
herbalista/Patty

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 Message 5 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWolf19502Sent: 10/9/2007 11:55 AM
Hi, Paul,
Thank you for sharing this! I thought I had replied, but I can't find my post, so I guess it got lost in the cyber-ether.

I'd love to know what the animals have to say about ethical vegetarianism. Are the people on the right track, are they well meaning but misunderstanding the whole situation?

 

I got a quick image of the cow as I was reading your question and she grinned and said, "Humans aren't meant to be vegetarians, just as we aren't meant to be carnivores although we are omnivores as are humans. If there are insects in/on the greenery we eat, we eat them also, so that makes us omnivores, even though we are not looking for "meat". Humans are meant to eat what is available just as we do - to choose not to do so is a personal thing."


I also find the discussion of intelligence interesting. It's a long-standing metaphysical view that consciousness and wisdom in human beings is not dependent upon intelligence, i.e. the wisdom of fools, etc. I can't see that animals would be any different.

I've been an ethical vegetarian off and on for quite a while, but deliberately stepped off the wagon this weekend. I mostly just wanted to see how it would feel. I'm not happy with it, and I'm back on my peanut butter and tofu. I'm thinking that there's nothing inherently wrong with eating meat, but that if one gets into a certain space, it's not a good thing for the individual, for reasons we may not understand, vibratory or whatever. I did a type of meditation years ago that taught us not to eat garlic and onions, two of my favorite things in the world. I should say USUALLY favorite; when I went to the grocery store during that period, all I could smell was the garlic and onions. It was disgusting!
 
      I am not one of those people who 'have to have a steak, have to have a hamburger' nor is my wife. We tend to eat whatever we desire based on whateer is available. During the summer months when we have fresh produce from our garden we eat a lot of vegetarian meals, well basically vegetarian as broths or eggs may be used, but we don't have meat or fish with these meals. My father in law, when he was living would often not eat at our home because we didnot have meat and potatoes! He was a meat and potato person.
      Personally, I think eating responsibly is the proper thing to do, 'Waste not/Want not'. Animals eat what is available, whether they are carnivores or omnivores or vegetarians, they don't quibble about clover rather than fescue or venison rather than rabbit or rabbit instead of apples - they eat what is at hand. I suspect if we ate what is available instead of insisting on other items we would have a lot less hungry people around because food would not get wasted, it would be used.
      I suspect that there are very few humans who would gladly eat carrion, although there are many animals that do just that - it is available, they have adapted and thus carrion is eliminated. Also, if you have ever watched a cow or sheep eat, they eat everything in their path, they don't pick out certain blades of grass or avoid all weeds. They will move about to get better forage but they are genearlly going to eat what is avaliable.
 


Paul, I'd love to be able to "converse" with animals the way you do. I've done a couple of animal readings, but they were basically visual, with the animals sending me thought pictures. (One dog wanted a red toy, the one color he didn't have, and he wanted to go to Starbucks, where his owner always let him have the foam and cream off the top of her beverage!) Any hints on how to move to conversation?
 
     I don't always have conversations. Some times I hear words, other times I get pictures. Some days I just know what they, the animals want me to know. I can usually confirm anything be continuing the conversation. It is always different, because animals like humans converse/communicate in different ways. I would say that you are well on your way and just need to continue to work at it.
     I find that just opening my mind, sitting quietly and listening, really listening is the thing that helps me most.
      My wife and I volunteer at a no-kill shelter and one day I sat down for a moment to wait for a floor to dry in a room with about a dozen dogs. I sat quietly, opened my mind and thought, "Does anyone here want to talk?". I got an immediate image of one of the dogs bouncing up and down in front of me, yelling, "ME! ME!'. So we talked and talked. He did not like children and made this known by growling or barking whenever children came near his kennel. He wanted to be sure he was not adopted by a family. I explained that the staff was not going to allow him to be with children but he was frightening everyone away by his actions. I could 'see' him listening to me and a few days he was adopted after almost 6 months in the shelter. He thanked me for talking with him. But the point is that there were very few 'words or conversation' just mostly knowing. So be assured you are conversing already.
 
Paul

XOXO
herbalista/Patty

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 Message 6 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameVoyager90AUSent: 10/9/2007 4:20 PM
I don't whether any of you have access to UK TV. But there is a program in Channel 4 - Meet the natives. http://www.tvscoop.tv/2007/09/set_the_video_m_27.html 
There are 6 native people from South Pacific island of Tanna to swap their normal life in favour of Britain in Meet The Natives program.  They are aborigines and still hunt and kill for eat. they are rearing pigs to eat. Any way long story short - they were taken to the Pig farm in Norfork UK. They saw and participate how the farmer impregnate the Sows from the Sperm taken from a boar 500 mile saway and inserting tube into the sow. natives were very upset of this practise.
 They asked why the Sows and male pigs cannot have normal sexual pleasure like us? Why ywe changed the nature like that and pigs do not have any pleasure of it and they cannot roam freely. Then Channel 4  showed a clip from their own village where pigs are playing with kids and freely roaming in the village. ALTHOUGH They kill pigs later to eat they respect the pigs more than we do. I could undrestand their point. We treat animal bad although animal does treat us well.
 
Voyager

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 Message 7 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameherbaleestaSent: 10/13/2007 12:50 PM
Hi, Paul,
Thank you, this is fascinating!  If you get a chance, I'd love to hear what the various voices have to say about people who choose to become ethical vegetarians, are they part of the growth picture for the animals and the planet, are they just well meaning and misguided, ???  And what about protecting species from extinction, is that as valuable as we think it is, or valuable in other ways that we don't realize (spiritually?), or also well meant but misguided?
Of course these are only suggested answers, I'd love to hear what the various animals have to say about it.  And also, do opinions on some of this stuff vary among the animal population?  That is, might one cow or buffalo disagree with another cow or buffalo about these issues?
Also, I've done a couple of readings for dogs, with good results, but I haven't pursued it.  Do you have any hints for someone wanting to get better at having these conversations?  So far, what I've gotten has mostly been visual, like telling an owner that her dog wanted a red toy (the only color he didn't have) and he wanted to go to Starbucks (she always let him have the cream off the top of her latte).  I'd love to have actual conversations with animals.  Actually, I'd like to have them with trees, etc, too, but (to quote Alton Brown) that's another show.
XOXO
Patty/herbalista

--
"Sitting around waiting for inspiration is for amateurs." -- Tom Robbins
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson
http://www.patriciaresnick.com

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 Message 8 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWolf19502Sent: 10/19/2007 5:15 PM
Hi, Paul,
Thank you, this is fascinating!  If you get a chance, I'd love to hear what the various voices have to say about people who choose to become ethical vegetarians, are they part of the growth picture for the animals and the planet, are they just well meaning and misguided, ???  And what about protecting species from extinction, is that as valuable as we think it is, or valuable in other ways that we don't realize (spiritually?), or also well meant but misguided?

         I will try to get some of this information for you. I need to know myself. I can tell you that some species decide to become extinct, there job is done and it is time to move on. Tigers and wolves are trying to decide. Cetaceans are in the process of moving into another existence at this time but they are committed to taking humans who wish to go with them along, so it will take time.


Of course these are only suggested answers, I'd love to hear what the various animals have to say about it.  And also, do opinions on some of this stuff vary among the animal population?  That is, might one cow or buffalo disagree with another cow or buffalo about these issues?
 
     Again, I will try to get anwers.

Also, I've done a couple of readings for dogs, with good results, but I haven't pursued it.  Do you have any hints for someone wanting to get better at having these conversations?  So far, what I've gotten has mostly been visual, like telling an owner that her dog wanted a red toy (the only color he didn't have) and he wanted to go to Starbucks (she always let him have the cream off the top of her latte).  I'd love to have actual conversations with animals.  Actually, I'd like to have them with trees, etc, too, but (to quote Alton Brown) that's another show.
 
    I have a DVD made by Lauren McCall called "Animal Communications; Making the Conection!" that I have found to be invaluable for me. It really guides you through the process of opening up and listening.
     I once asked my dogs why htey didn't talk with me more and they told me "We talk, we talk to you a lot, but you just don't listen! You need to learn to really listen so that you can hear us." I remind myself of this conversation every time I talk with an animal.
   Another thing is to pay attention to what you are getting, you will think it is coming from you but it is coming from them. Just don't have preconceived notions, just listen.
     Our grandson, he is four has conversations with Elves and Fairies all the time, He has often talked to the ones in our back yard and has shown me where they sleep and tells me why they like the yard. I asked him if they would ever talk to me and he told me I need ot listen better!
     He went on vacation a couple of summers ago, (his parents are separated and he is our step-grandson) he was three then and when he came back he was telling me about teh coyote that ran across the road in front of them - they were out west in the Dakotas and he told me about the  coyote's rider. He told me it was an elf.
    He is wondreful to have around and I hope he can teach me a lot.
     I would also love to talk with plants. I have talked with a few dryads connected to oak trees but not to the trees themselves and with dryads it is mostly just "knowing" what they are saying. I don't hear anything.
 
Paul 
XOXO
Patty/herbalista


     

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The number of members that recommended this message. 1 recommendation  Message 9 of 10 in Discussion 
Sent: 10/24/2007 4:31 AM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

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 Message 10 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameDew_____Sent: 10/24/2007 11:23 AM
Hi Kat,
I like the way you have presented it....

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