Out of curiosity I have checked the 1901 census and the above family are shown with John still Head of the household, born in Russia and occupation of Sugar House Labourer.  Still no mention of Jane so I think we have to concede this is definitely the wrong family.  Sorry to say you have wasted your money on that birth certificate - but alas we don't know until we actually send for it!

 

I will plug away though, rest assured.

 

Kay

Manager

Hi Kay  I dont want to make things more complicated than they are but I have just realised I have Henrys father down as a Griffith Owens only because Thomas's birth names the father as Henry and the only Henry without any other name 1871/1875 inclusive is  Liverpool Mar 1873 8b 190.   IF this is right then the marriage certificate for Henry and Mary Jane is wrong. Sorry, as though thing are not complicated enough.

Marjorie.

Hi Marjorie

 

So am I correct - we're actually looking for a marraige of Jane Miller and Griffith Owens?

 

Kay

Manager

Hello Kay

 

Sorry I never seem to explain myself properly. On the birth certificate I got a while age for Henry (thats if I got the right one) his father was Griffith. and on the marriage certificate I got for Henry and Mary Jane Henrys father was Thomas.  So one or other is wrong. Awfully sorry for the mix up.

 

Marjorie.

Ah ok, that makes more sense.  I'll see if I can find either Griffith or Thomas - so far to no avail on Thomas of course and I did check earlier on for Griffith and found nothing.  Don't give up - I will look further in the hope of finding something.

 

Kay

Manager

Dear Marjorie

 

So sorry I've not got back to you sooner.  I've been looking, as promised, but so far have drawn a blank.  What a disappointment for you.

 

I will continue to check regularly though, so do come back and see if I've had any luck.

 

Best wishes.

 

Kay

Manager

Hi Kay Just to let you know ive seen your  message. thanks for trying to help

 

Marjorie

Hi Marjorie

 

I've been ponding on your ancestors still but alas found nothing more concrete.  I'm thinking about the certificates you've received though and thinking that despite having one for a Henry with father Griffith, if you are happy that Henry's marriage to Mary Jane is correct then I would say we are pretty safe to say that Thomas, as mentioned on that marriage certificate as Henry's father, is the correct one.  I'm only working on the basis of what you feel is the most likely here of course.  What are your thoughts?

 

Kay

Manager

Hi Kay,  I'm with you in that I think the marriage certificate is right and that Henrys father was Thomas and Janes father John.  Firstly Janes sisters marriage to Walter Mc Gowan her father was John (deceased).  and also I have found 1891 census for Henry. Parents Thomas and Maria and sister Katherine. and 1901 Maria Owens widow of 68 Cramer Street which now I look is the address on the marriage certificate for Henry and Mary Jane. I'm wondering if we will ever find them with the census's it looks as though they tried to avoid them. Do you think it is worth trying to find them still or do we have to call it a day.

 

Marjorie

Well Marjorie I do think it's worth me having one more good look for you.  I do sympathise as I have a similar family in my ancestry where they seem to have avoided the censuses.  Bear with me whilst I check again and I will post again if I have any success.

 

Best wishes.

 

Kay

Manager

Hello again Marjorie

 

Marian has been helping me on this one!  She's managed to find a few entries which I think you will find interesting.  Here's what she has located.

 

Firstly, in the 1881 as follows:

 

John Miller b: 1845 Bolton, Lancashire - Lodger (Head) - Bricklayer's Labourer

Ann Miller b: 1841 Barnsley, Yorkshire - Loder's Wife - Seamstress Civil Engineer

 

Address is 16 Salford, Clitheroe.

 

 

Also on the 1881 Census Marian has found:

 

Jane James b: 1821 Pwlhelli, Caernavornshire (not sure of that spelling)! - Head

Edward James b: 1851 Carnarvon - Son - House Carpenter

Robert O James b: 1857 Liverpool - Son - Officer in Merchant Service (Seaman)

Jane C Miller b: 1873 Liverpool - Granddaughter

Henrietta Miller b: 1873 Liverpool - Granddaughter

 

Address is 4 Newton Street, Toxteth Park

 

 

 

Then on the 1891 census:

 

Jane Miller b: 1874 Liverpool - Servant

with:

William H Brown b: 1851 Manchester and his family

 

 

Hope this is of some help - what do you think?

 

Kay

Manager

A couple of records which would probably be of help that Marian also found are as follows:

 

Hello Kay    I dont quite know what to say. You and Marion have certainly come up with some facts that I would never have found in a million years. Everything seems to fit together so well. I have printed myself a copy of all that has been said and will go over it again and decide what certificates I need to go any further. Many thanks for all your help don't know how I would have managed without both you and Marion

 

kind regards Marjorie.

Thanks for your kind comments Marjorie.  Always a pleasure to help - especially if we manage to find some information that helps you on your way!  Do feel free to get back to us at any time if we can persue anything further for you.

 

Best wishes.

 

Kay

Manager

Hi Marjorie

 

Do please let us know how you get on, once you have your certificates.  We love to have feedback!

 

Marian