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| | From:  CuppaTea2 (Original Message) | Sent: 11/1/2007 3:35 PM |
My Quigley ancestors from Ireland are a sticking point in my tree. I have just put up a Smith family tree website which includes our elusive Quigleys, and this is the link - http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/smithmob/web/quigley.html
My g-g-grandparents Margaret (McCabe) & Felix Smith travelled from Ireland arriving in Australia on 13 September 1865. From the birth records of their children in Australia, they say they were married in Clones or Killeevan Parish, Monaghan Ireland on 8 Nov 1864. No record of their marriage was found by an Irish research service in the early 1990's.
Felix Smith's mother was Mary Quigley according to his death certificate. His father was James Smith. Felix was born between 1837 & 1841. His place of birth is stated as Fermanagh Ireland on his death certificate, but his children's Australian birth certificate, where he was the informant, give his birthplace variously as Fermanagh, Cavan and Dublin. This was not a man who was consistent with his age or birthplace on official documents.
Coincidentally, Felix's wife Margaret (McCabe) also had a mother with the surname Quigley. Her mother was either Margaret or Catherine Quigley. Margaret's death certificate names her mother as Margaret Quigley, but the death certificates of 3 of our Margaret's McCabe brothers, who also came to Australia, name their mother as Catherine Quigley rather than Margaret Quigley. So her mother would be either Margaret or Catherine Quigley, who married Hugh McCabe. Our Margaret McCabe who married Felix, was born about 1841 at Dunseark, Monaghan, Ireland.
My best guess is that Felix and Margaret (and both their Quigley mothers?) came from around the border area of Fermanagh & Monaghan. Any clues on how I can find out more about these Quigley ladies? Were they perhaps related?
Help please!
Debbie
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Kay,
This Mary Anne Quigley is interesting, having been born in Dublin, and having been married around the right time too. But Felix came to Australia with no other family except his wife Margaret, so his mother didn't marry in NSW Australia. I have seen the name spelt as Quigly in other people's trees. Might there be anything under this spelling?
Debbie |
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Ok Debbie, thanks for your thoughts. I will certainly check Quigly (spelling) for you too as mistranscriptions occur so often. Hope to get back to you presently. Kay Manager |
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Kay,
I have checked through my notes, and am certain that Margaret (nee McCabe) had a Quigley mother, and her mother's name is given as Margaret Quigley on her death certificate. Her McCabe brothers (Victoria, Australia) death index listings also name their mother as Margaret/Catherine Quigley.
Checking Felix, his mother's name of Mary Quigley is on his death certificate. I had thought this information was given by his wife, and that she should know, but here is the transcription of Felix Smith's death certificate -
Felix Smith, farmer
Death - 8 November 1899 at Wycheproof, Shire of Wycheproof, County of Kara Kara [Victoria, Australia]
Death registered - 11th November 1899 at Wycheproof by M. C. Smith, Son, Wycheproof.
Cause of death - aortic endocarditis ce*c**** thrombosis, for 14 days ill.
Father - James Smith, farmer
Mother - Mary Quigley
Buried - 10 Nov 1899 at Wycheproof cemetery
Born - Fermanagh Ireland, 30 years in Victoria [arr. 13 Sept 1865, should read 34yrs in Victoria]
Married - at age 26 in Monaghan Ireland to Margaret McCabe
Children - Catherine 31, Michael 29, Terence 27, Mary 23, Felix 20, James18.
I just wonder Kay.... Is it possible that Felix's oldest son Michael (my great-grandfather), who registered his death, might have mixed up his father's mother's maiden name with his maternal grandmother's? I'm going to keep an open mind here Kay, and see where this goes. At the same time we shouldn't dismiss the Quigley surname for both just yet.
I'll keep a record of the marriage to Mary Hicks just in case, thank you.
Debbie
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Hi again Debbie Good of you to check all that and post it here. To be honest, as you suggest with Felix mixing up the names, anything is possible. I will certainly look into this, just in case as it could be something that simple of course - we will see. As I've said before though, do check back regularly in the hope I've found something more for you. Kay Manager |
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Hi Debbie Having checked the alternative spelling (Quigly) I have found three possibles, though I'm very uncertain because of the areas. However, I will add them below for you to make your own decisions about whether you think any of them fit: |
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Hello Kay,
Difficult to know about the three Quigley Mary's you have found on the IGI. The two from Clare would be less likely being right out of the area, although they are Catholic, which is probably what we are after. We believe Mary's son Felix to be Catholic. His wife Margaret (nee McCabe) certainly was.
The Mary Quigly from Roscommon I will keep a record of, since she is closer to the area and of the right age. Without knowing whether any of these 3 ladies married a James Smith, it is impossible to know.
Regarding the earlier mention you made of Mary HICKS who married a James Smith in 1836 at Kesh, Fermanagh, is there any way of finding children of the marriage? This would tell us whether or not they are of interest. As you say, they are in roughly the right area, are the right age, and have married in time to possibly be Felix's parents.
Thanks for your efforts Kay. I know that Irish records can be a pain.
Debbie
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Good morning Debbie Of course I will certainly look for you to see if any children are listed and post whatever I may find. Again, check back soon to see if I've had any luck. Kay Manager |
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Hi Debbie I've had a look for the children of James Smith & Mary Hicks, married 1836 and come up with two. These are as follows: William Smith - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 15 MAR 1835 , Fermanagh, Ireland William Smith - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Death: 20 NOV 1906 Rebbeca Smith - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 03 OCT 1836 Colaghey, , Fermanagh, Ireland These are the only two I could find. Are they any help? Kay Manager |
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Hello Kay,
Since contacting you about not having my earlier reply to this posted, I've been away. Sorry for the delay in replying again.
Firstly, about the children William and Rebecca that you've found - we don't know of any other children of the marriage of Mary and James Smith apart from Felix, so for this to be the right family, we would need also to find Felix Smith as a child. He was born between 1837 & 1841.
What's the best way to proceed with looking Kay? Are these IGI records at the familysearch website, because if they are, I could probably trawl through these myself if you point me in the right direction. I have been to the familysearch site many times looking for this family but they're not there. The IGI records I didn't check, because I presumed it would be impossible to make a definite identification from a single record, but perhaps not?
So what I'm asking is if there is anything which you can set me to work on (online that is - I'm not in Ireland), please do. And if there is anything you have access to that I don't, these would be the things most valuable to my search I think.
What do you reckon?
Debbie
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Hi Debbie Well like you I'm not in Ireland either! I've been using the Family Search website and do find the IGI most helpful. It is probably the case of trawling through everything but sometimes the necessary one just pops out - not always though - ha,ha. The only thing I can't help wondering is if Felix was actually a "pet"name or second Christan name that was used - many a time we find children being named after other family but being called something different to distinguish the two family members. Just a thought. I will have another look for you, naturally and let you know if I come up trumps. Kay Manager |
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I can't believe Debbie that having done a search on IGI for Felix Smith all I've come up with are two. The first one was born in 1868, Wicklow named Phoelix Smith to parents John Smith & Mary Neill. The other was born in 1875 in Armagh to parents Michael Smith & Mary Boyd. Not much help I'm afraid. I did find one record which I doubt is of any help but I thought worth posting, was a Felix Smith, Farmer in the 1880 US census: | Phelix SMITH | Household | | | | Male | | | |
| | | Other Information: | | | | Birth Year | <1844> | | | | Birthplace | IRE | | | | Age | 36 | | | | Occupation | Farmer | | | | Marital Status | S <Single> | | | | Race | W <White> | | | | Head of Household | Margaret SMITH | | | | Relation | Son | | | | Father's Birthplace | IRE | | | | Mother's Birthplace | IRE | I know you said before he went to Australia, but I couldn't help noticing this and thought I must post it for you. Kay Manager |
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Thanks Kay,
There are a couple of Felix Smith's I've been excited to find on a googlesearch for a genealogy forum somewhere, only to find out they were in the US. When you posted this I got all excited on a glance, especially as it said farmer, because Felix's father James was a farmer. But *sniff* it's the US again...
Felix's name is almost certainly correct, rather than being an assumed name. He named his oldest son Felix in Australia, and the name has gone down the generations.
A distant cousin here in Australia (descended from Felix's wife's brother) is going to look through his old family tree boxes at some point, to see if he can find any tiny clue on Felix's wife Margaret's (McCabe) mother Margaret or Catherine Quigley. He wasn't confident he would find anything though.
Debbie
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Oh! And the Felix's you found are born around the time that our Felix was having children of his own. His own son named Felix John Smith was born in 1879 in Victoria, Australia. You never know - the US Felix's could be cousins. If only the old records were better so we could find out.
Debbie |
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Oh dear Debbie, sorry to have raised your hopes. Yes I saw farmer and that's what prompted me to post the record. Let's hope you managed to get a bit of a hint, if nothing else, from your distant relative over there. Meantime if I do happen to come acorss anything else I will certainly post for you. Sorry I've not been able to find more. Kay Manager |
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Thank you Kay,
I appreciate the time and care you've taken so far. These Irish families can be a problem to trace, but I'm not giving up. I will keep a note of what you have said and found so far, and if you find anything further, I'd be grateful for the possible leads.
Thanks, Debbie |
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