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Debate & Discuss : DOTW: Homosexuality: choice or nature
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 Message 1 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameßratz  (Original Message)Sent: 6/30/2004 7:18 PM
Now, I debated whether putting this up, as I know some might be offended.  This is not about whether you believe homosexuality to be right or wrong.  I think most of us are pretty okay with that.  This has to deal with if you think homosexauls are "born that way", or if the choose at one point to follow that path.
 


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 Message 2 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname©jen©Sent: 6/30/2004 7:22 PM
I dont claim to know anything about it, but I do believe homosexuals are "born that way".I dont think they wake up one morning and decide that they are.

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 Message 3 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameßratzSent: 6/30/2004 7:24 PM
My own personal belief is that everyone has a level of attractiveness to thier own sex.  you can choose to explore this side or not.  However, I feel that the attraction is more in there with some then others.
 
I read an interesting study one day, anout how 40% of lesbians have a "masculinized" inner ear.  I know, you laugh and think "it is an inner ear, what difference would that make".  but if you think, this is a phsical detail.  Something a child is born with, where 85% with this turn out ot be lesbian.
 
That really made me curious.
 
Rob, my nanny, he swears it was how he has always been.  never was more interested in a woman than appreciating her beauty, but as I would look at another woman and thingk, wow, what a hottie.
 
Anyway, I am undecided on the issue, but tend to slant towards a natural tendency, one you either act on or not.  I also think it rather sad for those who feel that way, and never act on it.  Becuase I think it would be sad to not be true to yourself.

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 Message 4 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameghaensSent: 6/30/2004 7:51 PM
Dunno...  I'd say born with it! I don't know enough gay people to have an opinion. My friend's brother is gay and he is a mans man if you know what I mean! Not an ounce of campness in him. I also knew a bloke who prentended to be gay because he liked the whole gay scene in the 80's...  I used to go to a gay night club years ago and I hated to see blokes with wedding rings on come on to other blokes. If you're gay your gay so don't try to be other wise!

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 Message 5 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamePoll_DollSent: 6/30/2004 8:44 PM
I would say true gays are born not created

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 Message 6 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»ÐÎzŽzŽzŽỷ«™Sent: 6/30/2004 9:04 PM
Well to be very honest .... i have always know there was somrthing different about me feelings towards women ... i grew up a tomboy and fantasised about women .... tho i did marry a bloke and had 3 kids (still got them).... i only became true to myself after i had fallen for a person of the same sex as my self. I fell in love with the person , not the fact she was female.
 
So i do believe you are born , you are raised and yes in each of us there are feelings towards both genders.

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 Message 7 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBigMama�?/nobr>Sent: 7/1/2004 4:00 AM
Well said Dizzzz!!! I have a lesbian sister and a gay brother in law and the BEST thing they both ever did was to "come out" they were both miserable with themselves before being true to their own emotions. My brother in law struggled so much with his feelings that he actually tried to commit suicide on many occasions because he couldn't live with his secret and he thought nobody would accept him as he was. I was the first person he ever told. I felt honored that he felt comfortable enough to trust me with his innermost feelings. So, yes, I do think a person is born gay!

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 Message 8 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAngelineRoseSent: 7/1/2004 8:41 AM
I have always thought that sexuality was something you were born with and the only thing over the years that made it difficult for those attracted to the same sex was the stigma that went with it.
Then as i sat here i remembered there has been lots of reserch about chromasomes and genetics with it all. I was so pleased when they found there was some boilogical link .....cos it mean't the churches had to  shut up and stop trying to "cure" people!
here is one snipit of an article i found there is loads out on the net.

Oct. 20, 2003 -- Through mice, humans are beginning to understand the mystery of sexual identity. A new study provides the first clues that sexuality is hardwired in the brain before birth -- that gender identity and homosexuality are not chosen.

The study turns science on its ear.

"Since the 1970s, the dogma has been that hormones are the driving factor that masculinized or feminized the brain," says lead researcher Eric Vilain, MD, PhD, professor of human genetics, pediatrics, and urology at UCLA's David Geffen School of Medicine.

"Hormones do play a role, but hormones are not the whole story," Vilain tells WebMD. His study appears in the October issue of Molecular Brain Research.

In fact, recent studies at UCLA have also shown that chromosomes affect behavior. "What we've done is try to identify the specific genes involved in gender identity."

Mysteries Within Mouse Brains

In their study, Vilain and his colleagues analyzed mouse brains -- that is, mice that were still fetuses, just 10 days past conception. "This is right before the gonads become testes or ovaries," he explains. "So at the time we looked at their brains, there was no source of hormones."

Researchers also checked each mouse to determine their genetic sex -- whether they had XY (male) or XX (female) chromosomes.

They found more than 50 genes that expressed differently in males and females, reports Vilain. "Some will be turned on at high levels in males but not in females, and in others, it's the opposite situation."

These are the biological clues to gender identity -- one's own perceptions of one's sex, whether they feel they are male or female, Vilain explains.

"It's independent from the way we look, and also independent from sexual attraction," he adds. "Sexual orientation is independent from gender identity. A huge majority of gay men don't feel that they belong to the wrong gender."

But the findings "could explain why some people don't feel right in their bodies or in their gender, why some people are transsexual," he adds. "They have XY chromosomes, penis, scrotum, normal levels of testosterone, but they feel they were not meant to be men. I believe it's mostly biologically determined. Hormones play a role, but this is proof that there are genetic determinants that are independent of hormones."

David Weinshenker, PhD, professor of human genetics at Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta, says this may be the "first inkling" that gender identity is contained within our genes.

Studies of fruit flies have produced similar results, Weinshenker tells WebMD. "You can change the sexual behavior of the flies by changing one gene."

The complexity of genes that Vilain found in mammals is "surprising" -- and perhaps the "first inkling" that gender identity resides in our genes, he says.

However, "we're a very long way from using gene expression to predict behavior," he says. "There are too many genes involved, and too much influence of environment. Almost everything we are and do is a combination of genes and environment, and trying to pinpoint reason for any particular behavior is tricky."


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 Message 9 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameRopeyladybird212Sent: 7/1/2004 9:53 PM
I believe it is what you are born feeling.  I think that it isn't something that happens later in life, it is just that in society it is hard to admit to how you feel.....for fear of horrible reactions.  If one of my children turned out to be gay i would encourage them to be as open about it as they liked.  At the end of the day it is their life and you should live it to the full.

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 Message 10 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»ÐÎzŽzŽzŽỷ«™Sent: 7/2/2004 12:11 AM
The way my parents were when i came out to my mum .. was sort of a negative reaction ... i was married with 3 kids at the time , tho the marriage had broken down and there way no way i was going to give it another go ... all my mum was worried about was my kids ....
Then i explained in depth about what went wrong in my marriage and then i explained that i had found someone who i could talk to , someone who loved me for being me , not just a mum or a wife....
Once i explained how i felt and had been for years !! she changed and realised that i could cope with being seen as a single mum ..... and she was untlmattly happy that i was happy in myself.
I am still best mates with my first gf and we still talk and phone to each other and  will always be there for each other.
believe it or not .... ask Tracey this as well , i am different when im away from my "normal" home life being a single parent with 3 kids as to what i am when im with her.
 
Being gay .... yes its hard , esp with 3 kids and looking like i do , trust me i dont look like all the other mums in the playground... i have piercings and tattoos.... the great thing is people can see past all the exterior and get to know me for me.... im no different to any of you really , well only in one major part of my life and thats  because i choose to have relationships with women. Im very happy with Tracey and we both can see us still toghther when we are older.
 
Yes ive had a shitty marriage, and i aint really getting into all of that again LOL (its boring and i and my kids have moved on for the better)
 
From what i can recall ive always know that ive been different ........ and i truley believe you are born the way you are.

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 Message 11 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameConvictedDaydreamer11Sent: 7/2/2004 1:53 AM
Dizz  I truely admire your honesty, and what a great mum you have
I wish you every happiness for the future with Tracey, my friend
is like you, she has piercings and tatoos, and reading what you said
you sounded so similar  it was almost untrue.. she feels she stands out in the playground and never fits in with the other mums  she's a fantastic friend totally honest and absolutley hilarious like you  

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 Message 12 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemummycoolSent: 7/2/2004 1:49 PM
Ok I have two gay brothers, one natural and one adopted.
I believe you are born with your sexuality, and like others have said its only society that makes it so damn painful to be true to who you are.
My brothers are both very different, one is a mans man, and the other, although not camp is a little less of a mans man. Cant think of another way to put it sorry.
 

Reply
 Message 13 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLouLouBell1077Sent: 7/6/2004 6:59 PM
Your sexuality is part of you, and something that can't be altered, or 'cured' by the church - the church really should know better, after all, religion is supposed to be about acceptance, and not being prejudiced isn't it?
We all have our own ideas of who is our ideal partner - some women only like a certain type of man, some only like a certain type of woman.
It's just a part of who we are, and what makes us all different.
The choice is whether to 'come out' or not.
Sadly, a lot of people never do, for fear of being disowned by their families or being discriminated against, which must be truly awful - I can't imagine how heartbreaking it must be to feel the need to hide such a large part of who you are when you want to live your own life, and not to be dictated to by the narrow minded members of society who judge others by their sexual preference rather than their personality.
I really hope that if Emily realised she was gay when she was older, she would feel secure enough to tell me, and know I would love her for who she is, not what she is - my biggest worry would be if she was treated badly by others purely because of her sexualuty!
 

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