MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
The Scientific Debate Forum.Contains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  Disclaimer: Read this page first.  
  Links  
  Messages  
  General  
  Nutrition  
  "Mission Statement."  
  Why the "germ theory" is not science.  
  The Underlying Cause of "Disease."  
  The Scientific Method.  
  How dangerous are bacteria and viruses?  
  The Contributions of Hans Selye and others.  
  How direct effects are often ignored, and indirect markers used  
  Understanding "disease" at the molecular level.  
  Understanding disease at the molecular level, part II.  
  What the "common cold" can teach us about illness.  
  The AA connection to today's common "diseases."  
  How easy the key experiments would be to do.  
  The best practical diet and the explanation for it.  
  Fish oil quotes you might want to read  
  Where the "immune system" fits into this view of "disease."  
  How many 'scientific studies' violate the scientific method  
  Why you have to be careful with antioxidants.  
  Why Cancers today are more aggressive than those of the past.  
  The Latest Evidence.  
  Some studies worthy of note.  
  HSWC "in action."  
  How language can impede science.  
  How language impedes science, part II.  
  More on why "germs" don't cause "disease."  
  How a latent virus actually causes "disease."  
  A new report that "says it all."  
  The science "show" must go on?  
  Odds and ends  
  Some thoughts on a book by Robert Gallo.  
  Saturated fatty acids are the solution, not the problem.  
  It's stress, not "germs" that causes disease.  
  Epidemiology: Facts versus "factoids."  
  It's stress, not germs, part II.  
  The latest on "inflammation."  
  Why many nutritional claims make no sense  
  The use of hypotheticals in science.  
  What "viral infections" really do to the body.  
  What determines longevity?  
  An example of an anti-"saturated fat" study that is flawed.  
  A Rough Guide to a Gentle Diet.  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV."  
  A unified "AIDS" hypothsis without "HIV." Part II.  
  Okay, so when is this diet going to kill me?  
  Scientific Debate Forum Pictures  
  The EFA Claim Was Refuted Long Ago  
    
  
  
  Tools  
 
Nutrition : The sum total of everything
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameforsammyray  (Original Message)Sent: 1/26/2008 1:06 AM
Hans, my friend, you know I just love this website you're running here ... but I must admit that, after perusing the information, I get a little confused as to what I should be doing about it. All of these PUFA's and Mead's and AA's just blur together.
 
Is there a way to sum up your argument/hypothesis very simply? What should we eat/not eat, and why?
 
Thanks bubba!!!


First  Previous  2-6 of 6  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 1/27/2008 3:44 AM
Have you read the essay on the best practical diet and the thread on my diet? Those are the places to begin. However, many people come to this site because they are already "ill," and it's not always clear how to get their biochemistry "straightened out," and of course I don't know if they are "cheating" or not. Even if you eat a fairly safe diet, you may have mineral imbalances or deficiencies, for example. I've found that I have to change my supplement intakes once in a while. For instance, I used to take small amounts of potassium salt, but I don't any more, because I was having palpitations, and when I experimented and stopped taking potassium, the palpitations stopped.

In terms of just food, some general guides are:

Only eat food containing cholesterol in small amounts or in a "raw" form, such as uncooked dairy. Boiled eggs seem to be fine as well. This means no "meat" (or tiny amounts) unless you freeze it for a couple of weeks and eat it raw (something I've never done). Gelatin, however, is fine.

Do not use fat sources other than coconut oil or butter, and don't cook with them.

Always eat some sort of antioxidant-rich food during a meal. My usual ones are a handful of raisins, dark chocolate, coffee, and tea (no milk or sugar in the beverages).

Baked goods with no cholesterol or just tiny amounts are acceptable if there is more than 50% saturated fatty acids. If there are, then it can even have trans fatty acids in it too. This will allow you to eat a large number of items that are "ready made" and inexpensive.

Always eat near the RDA of protein each day, if not more. I eat a lot of cheese, ricotta and "regular," such as Swiss, Cheddar, Mozzarella, or Jack. I also eat very small amounts of nutritional yeast with each meal, perhaps a level teaspoon.

Feel free to ask questions you have - I'm sure I omitted something that you want to know about.

Reply
 Message 3 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameforsammyraySent: 1/29/2008 2:33 AM
Okay ... several questions.
 
1. I have read several of your essays on both diet and metabolic dangers of things like AA and PUFA's. I guess I would like some sort of summation of exactly what is taking place, what happens at a cellular level, and how the dietary changes you suggest can help or even reverse certain disorders.
 
2. You make the claim that you are free of AA at this point - how do you know? Is there some sort of quantifying test for it, or are you going on observable evidence for your suggestion? And how long did it take? A year?
 
3. I hate the way this wealth of information is set up on this website. It is nearly impossible to search for particular points or subjects. Are you sure you cannot compile all of it on some easily-assimilated Wordpress blog? I can set one up for you if you need help.
 
 

Reply
 Message 4 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 1/29/2008 10:38 PM
1. It depends on the disorder. For example, I had GI issues, which I now realize were due to fried food rich in omega 6 PUFAs. In the elderly, it seems that vitamin E is depleted due to the PUFA-rich/antioxidant-poor diet, leading to higher SOD levels. However, SOD requires a mineral cofactor (magnesium, selenium, zinc, copper, manganese), and so if you are low in a particular mineral, you can have a great deal of free radical damage in areas that use that version of SOD to control it. The buildup of plaque in arteries is due to oxidized LDL being "attacked" by macrophages. Cancer seems to be due to AA metabolites (LTB4, for example) in an "inflammatory" context, meaning that some sort of "irritation" is usually involved. And on, and on...

Now what happens if you were to eat this diet after being raised on a "healthy" 'diet? You might experience the kind of GI problems I did as a child and teen, or a rash, as examples. Over time, Mead acid will be displaced in favor of arachidonic acid. When this occurs, your body become "hyper-reactive" to irritants, and the molecules that are produced are much more powerful, and hence dangerous. This is all well established: the stressed cell releases calcium, triggering PLA2 production, and that gets the AA out of your cell, where it is made into the dangerous metabolites like PGE2 and LTB4. These molecules can clot blood, but they are just too powerful - like putting rocket fuel in your car engine (in terms of long term health effects).

2. It's not only my claim - the "experts" say this will happen on a diet like mine. The difference is that they say all kinds of horrible things will happen, such as mildly dry skin. This can occur in a real "essential fatty acid deficiency syndrome," which would occur with vitamin B6 deficiency - then, you couldn't make enough Mead acid (the real essential fatty acid, which the body makes on its own if you are healthy and on a low PUFA diet). I noticed the changes one would expect, such as easier breathing, a temporary "goat like" body odor (for me it was mild), less inflammation when I get cuts, etc. Tests could be done, but I'm not going to pay for it, because it's too obviously true. If anyone want to pay for the test, just let me know.

3. This site is free, it allows me to screen messages and delete objectionable ones, and I can do essays as well as newsgroups, so it does have some major advantages. If you know of an alternative that possesses these features and also have other ones that are very helpful, by all means tell me about it (you can post on this thread).

Reply
 Message 5 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameforsammyraySent: 1/29/2008 10:52 PM
First of all, I am slightly confused.
 
You say it is important to get AA out of your cells and replace it with Mead acid. But then you go on and say that getting AA out of your cells means creating "dangerous metabolites like PGE2 and LTB4."
 
Geez ... maybe I want the AA to stay IN my cells...
 
Wordpress would allow you to create a nicer display of your research, provide a forum for ongoing discussion, and allow you the power to moderate and approve comments. I'm telling you, it would be much nicer and easier for your readers.

Reply
 Message 6 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHansSelyeWasCorrectSent: 1/30/2008 4:54 AM
AA is taken out of the cell in different ways. If it's taken out to make the metabolites (which is done by a particular enzyme), then you could have problems. Eating a different diet, especially one rich in antioxidant-rich food and poor in PUFAs and cooked/processed cholesterol, will remove AA safely. Of course, if you are in ill health, you might want to give your body time to get stronger before you do it. There's not much evidence, so I'm not going to make a strong statement about getting AA out under such circumstances. I would, but I've experienced so much at this point (in terms of dietary experimentation) that I feel confident that I wouldn't do anything that might be dangerous, such as taking a lot of fish oil supplements, at the same time.

First  Previous  2-6 of 6  Next  Last 
Return to Nutrition