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| | (1 recommendation so far) | Message 1 of 21 in Discussion |
| From:  Legman5597 (Original Message) | Sent: 2/12/2006 2:13 AM |
I came across this picture of a Nu-Tools 20 inch saw which to me looks remarkably like an RBI Hawk.
Does anyone know anything about this Nu-Tools saw ?
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| | Nu-tool.jpg |
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| | | From: Bob C. | Sent: 2/12/2006 7:04 PM |
I just inhereited from my mother in law her old 20" RBI hawk which looks very much like the black Nu-tool picture you posted. She told me that when she purchased the saw it did not come with a blower and that rbi later offered a blower and my father in law installed. As for the variable speed controll is located on the other side and is a brass knob, believe it or not and they replaced the motor with a much smaller motor they use today. Looks to me they have some how jerry rigged the tenison arm adjustment and have painted the frame black. Final Answer RBI 20 Inch Bob C |
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JTTHECLOCKMAN.....You can say it as many times as you like.It won't change the fact you don't understand the concept of design rip-off ! Nobody is saying it's an identical copy but the basic design is undoubtedly taken from a Hawk.
You want comparisons, then let's look at the most obvious design rip-off ones eh :
The front table suppport goes down through the stand.
The rear table support.
The drive linkage that also goes down through the stand.
The pillar arm supports which go down through the stand. In fact, this design of saw cannot be used without the stand as it's integral to the design!
The hold-down foot.
The table and associated fixing bolt positions.
If you can't see the resemblance between the Nutools saw and a Hawk, then maybe you ought to invest in a pair of glasses !
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Thanks guys, I'll work with it some more. Bibbs |
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As a matter of fact I do need glasses. Well if you say it is a close clone then so be it. There are many many companies that copy tools every day. Just look at all the $200 scroll saws. Look at all the routers on the market. You made your point and I accept it. |
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| | | From: Sandie | Sent: 2/14/2006 11:27 PM |
To Bibbs; I seem to have a similar problem with the tension on my 26" Hawk. I've kind of narrowed it down to happening if I release the blade without releasing the tension first or if the blade breaks. Other than that it's alright.
Sandie
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A Hawk in disguise? I think not! Actually you're right in many counts that the saws do have an appearance that is similar. The Hawk has several patented features that prevent it from being copied part by part, but some of the appearance can be copied by dishonest manufacturers in Asia. Because Hawk is a small family business it's too expensive to establish international patents on some features which mean that you'll find a few copies floating around Europe more than here in the US. If you get the chance to use one you'll find out right away, it's no Hawk. There's something to be said for hand building each machine and using expert machinists here in Missouri. As for the trouble getting the front cam to work correctly on the 26" machine. The advice given by other owners was right on. I think you may have your tension a little too tight so the front cam can't get enough movement to drop down to the point you can reattach the blade. The 26" arm does have some flex in it because of it's length so over tightening is an easy thing to do on this machine compared to the 20". Bibs, if you really do regret buying your Hawk, let's talk. I don't want you to spend that much for a tool and be unhappy. You can always reach me at the office or send me an email and we'll do what it takes. |
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To RobbMurry,
I take it from your extremely biased posting that you have something to do with RBI more than just being a user !
I posted the Nutools saw picture as a comparison to the design to the Hawk as I thought members here might find it interesting. I made no comparison for quality as I have no way of knowing the quality of the Nutools saw.
I can tell by your reply that you've never tried one so you too have no way of knowing exactly what the quality is like.Nobody would dispute you have expert machinists in Missouri but that doesn't mean there aren't expert machinists elsewhere in the US or elsewhere in the world. You've hijacked my topic to get on your soapbox to sing the praises of the Hawk and that's a cheap trick that isn't appreciated by this member.
Before you start knocking other makes of saw maybe you should get your own house in order. From what I can make out, the G4 is being reviewed as a mediocre saw and a step down in quality from previous Hawks!
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Wow, certainly didn't mean to cause you offense and make you feel like it was a "cheap trick" that I dropped in a reply. I thought folks might find the info interesting about international patents and why a tool offered in Europe may look more similar to one protected by patents in the US. You're absolutely right I'm associated with Hawk, I'm the president of the Company. No secret there. I have used the Nutools machine but that's not important. In addition to my job, I'm also an avid scroller and published pattern designer so I am pretty familiar with the tools. As for your thoughts about Hawk as a company and the quality of the people that work here, we try very hard to build great tools. Sorry you're offended. |
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Just thought I'd put in my two cents worth on the RBI -- I bought a new G4 about a month and a half ago and LOVE it -- I must admit, I'm relatively new to scrolling, having used a small Craftsman about 30 years ago and a Dewalt a few weeks ago -- but I love my RBI -- I just have one question on its operation -- I can't seem to get the top arm low enough to use the "hold down" lever when I'm changing blades -- any help on this would be appreciated -- THANKS |
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Not feeling well since my last post, I have not been able to get back to the saw to try out your suggestions everyone. Mr Murry, I thank you and hope this will work out. Bibbs. |
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Its a possibillity that you may have the tension set too high. Back the tension off on the back and taht may solve your problem. GAry |
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Ok Guys and Robb in particular.....
Because there has been some good debate on this Nutools saw, I decided to bid on it on eBay UK (where it was advertised for sale) just for the hell of it. Guess what ? I won it and for the ridiculous price of 12.04 GBP, around 21USD ! Scrolling just isn't a big thing in the UK.
Having got the saw today and put it through it's paces I intend to give an honest opinion with no-holds-barred.
My initial reaction was the weight of the saw at 98lbs.
The integral base of the saw is made from 1/8" thick steel and very sturdy.The arm supports are made from cast iron and are also very sturdy as is the table support. The arms are aluminium as is the table which was a bit of a let down as a cast iron table would've been better in my opinion.The table angle adjust knob doesn't lock the table as tight as I would like so there's room for a design improvement in this area !
One thing that impressed me is the use of 10 good sized ball race bearings of the same size throughout this machine.
Every main moving part has a ball race bearing so 10 out of 10 there.
The motor drives via a double speed pulley and it's a total pain in the a*** changing from slow to high speed.
I doubt whether anyone would bother given how much hassle it is to change.
The counter balance mechanism is a nylon cogged dual weight design.There isn't a lot of noise from this machine but some noise is generated by the cogs as they whizz round.
Vibration is very acceptable and I would compare it to my Delta saws though not as good as my Diamond.
One thing that really goes against this saw is the lack of a blower of any description.There is a date stamp of 1988 on this saw so I guess things have improved to include basic requirements now !
Overall this looks like it will take a lot of abuse as it's very sturdy but there is no finesse.
The old style blade holders leave a lot to be desired and I can't figure out why it can take a pinned blade in the bottom holder but NOT in the top ! The top holder is a simple allen key clamp type.
As it stands this saw would make a good addition to a general purpose workshop but I would have to make several alterations like new blade holders and a blower to make it work for me.
I have no way of comparing this saw to a Hawk which I feel it is ripping off with its basic design, but as a scrollsaw in it's own right, it performs ok but nothing special. I guess I've been spoilt with my Diamond ! |
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I've never heard of a Diamond, who makes that saw? |
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Hi HerniatedDuck,
Diamond scroll/fret saws are made in the UK to extremely high engineering standards with measurements like .001" quoted for blade side tolerance etc.The saw has rotating blade holders and also the ability to take blades up to 12" long !
You can check out their site :
http://www.diamondfretsaws.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
I've attached a picture of a couple of Diamond saws taken from their catalogue.
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| | Diamond_AF25VS_Saw.jpg |
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dear sir, i don't know anything about nutools but i do know however a little something about the hawk G4. i have owned the hawk for about a year now,and i'm very happy with it. i've cut various thicknesses of wood from 2 1/2" down to 1/32" and i don't see any problem with this machine, just my 2 cents worth ken |
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