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Fall of OT : Why was Canaan cursed? by: eelya
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 Message 1 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 3/15/2008 1:11 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknameeelyahomaika</NOBR>  (Original Message) Sent: 8/25/2006 7:21 PM
I always found it strange in Genesis 9 , when Ham saw the nakedness of his father Noach, why was Canaan cursed?
Some bible scholars say that : "seeing his father's nakedness" means the same as "uncovering his father's nakedness" ; like is written in Leviticus 18:6.
I don't know the Hebrew language.

But I wonder, if Shem and Japhet went wackwards in the tent , avoiding seeing their father's nakedness, why should Ham have committed an act of homosexuality like many scholars claim??

Wasn't it simply an act of disrespect for his father?


I would be glad if someone could give me some answers about this.

blessings,

eelya


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Reply
 Message 2 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:12 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn22</NOBR> Sent: 8/25/2006 10:30 PM
Eelya,
thank you for your interest in these things.  Below is an excerpt from my message on the seven heads of the beast.  In the next reply, I will give you the link to this message.  It is listed in our boards, as the heads of the beast.  This is the second head.
 
Ok here is part of this answer:
 

Now God had blessed all four men after the flood and told THEM to be fruitful and multiply, same as he told Adam. So Noah was bringing forth many more children and bringing them into his religion. This is what being a husbandman means. He was not growing natural grapes, anymore than Abel was tending natural, four-legged sheep.

 After Noah had a great ‘vineyard�? or many people again, whom they had brought up a religion, then Noah drank of their ‘wine�? or false doctrine. Jesus likened the kingdom of heaven to a vineyard. So this is a spiritual vineyard, not natural grapes or such.

 Most people think that the Word of God is laid in step-by-step chronological order, and that it all happened right then and there. But this is just not true.

These things many times, took long periods of years to happen. When you read it, it may sound like it was just a day or so. But it was not that way. God is only telling us the main events, not how long it took.

Wine represents the joy of the Holy Ghost and the doctrine. See the Wine of Mystery Babylon was her false teachings with which she seduced the world.

 Now this is the very wine upon which Noah was made ‘drunken�? It is spiritual drunkenness, not natural. He had gone right back to the law system which God hates. He had gone back to ruling over others, which God hates.

He had gone back to setting some up over others. He had gone back to stone altars, animal sacrifices, holidays, big fancy Worship temples and receiving pay for being their ‘lord�?

 How do I know? Because he was drunken with her wine. He was again naked in the sight of God. Everything with the Word keeps declaring that God hates what these rulers over God’s people do. Thus Noah became UNCOVERED, or naked, as did Adam when he transgressed. This solidly proves what God has already shown me -- that Noah backslid.

See that Noah was UNCOVERED in his ‘tent�? The tent means his life or his religion. The ‘tent�?shows the same thing as the Tabernacle which Moses built, for it (the OT covenant) dwelt under tents. So this is showing that Noah was under that OT Covenant of law. The thing of being uncovered or naked shows that he has now lost the glory of God, as did Adam. It shows that he has left Grace and chosen Law again.

 It is NOT speaking of being unclothed with cloth cloths, anymore that it means Adam had no natural cloths on. It means they had become subtle and wicked. Noah and allowed his ‘plants�?or people to lead him astray.

 Mostly it was Ham who had led Noah away. This is what it means that he had drunk of the ‘wine�?of his ‘vineyard�? This is spiritual speech as it is throughout the Word of God. (Hurt not the WINE AND OIL.) See?

Remember the wine of Babylon had led the world astray? It is this same wine. They were ‘drunken�?with the cares of this life. Read the Word as Spiritual, or you will come up with carnal junk.

Now what about Ham? He ‘SAW�?the nakedness of his father. He accepted this evil ‘wine�?of false doctrine. ‘SEEING�?it is the same meaning as ‘EATING�?it.

It means to take it into oneself and accept it. So Ham realized that Noah was now away from God and into Adam or man worship. Then he attempts to bring his two brothers into this same false religion.

 He tells them about the ‘nakedness�?or lies of Satan. But see that Shem and Japheth refused this false religion.

They did the same thing Abel did: they converted Noah back to God and righteousness. God has given me the revelation and proof of how this happened. All of the Word reveals other things in the Word. So by seeing this, which Shem and Japheth did, It proves what I said that Abel did. Abel converted his Mother, Eve, back to righteousness and Grace.

 Shem and Japheth refused to ‘look�?at Noah’s nakedness, or in other words, they refused to consider this false, law religion of animal sacrifices. They ‘saw�?it not. They would not ‘eat�?of this tree of death. Not only did they refuse this false religion, but they converted Noah back to grace, or the tree of life. This is what it means that they kept their faces ’backward�?to this nakedness, or false religion, and they COVERED their Father. This was the right covering. It is the New Covenant of grace, by the blood of Jesus. They brought Noah out from under the delusion he fell into after the flood = that of animal sacrifices for sins. GLORY !!

They brought Noah back to grace. They covered his nakedness. They brought Noah back to God. THAT IS WHY NOAH’S RIGHTEOUSNESS IS MENTIONED IN THE NT.

See it said Noah AWOKE FROM HIS WINE. This means that Noah saw through the lie. He awoke to righteousness as Paul told us to do. Awake to righteousness and SIN NOT. Noah came back to his right mind, that of grace. He repented and was brought back into fellowship with God. His sons did this for him....same as Abel did for Eve. Proves what God showed me about that. Now Noah realizes what Ham had done to him.....= led him into law or false religion. This proves that Ham was instrumental in luring Noah back into Adam-type worship. See, this has been hidden or lost to the world. Ham led Noah into this sin.

So it brought the CURSE upon Ham. This means he was cut off from God. So was his son. This proves that Adam and Cain were cursed by God. Law is the curse. So to be under law is to be under the curse. Paul said if you go back to law, you are under the curse and fall from Grace.

 Then Christ is of no effect to you. So Ham and his sons fell under this curse, for they refused to return to Grace. They loved idols and all that goes with the law religion.


Reply
 Message 3 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:12 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn22</NOBR> Sent: 8/25/2006 10:35 PM
There is the link to this message on the second head, which is Noah.
 
Now I wish to tell you, that such things as you mentioned,  that some 'scholars???'  claim Ham committed homosexuality with Noah, is how big fat lies, or false doctrine gets started.
 
There is not one word of such filth told in God's Word.  It is made up by carnal minded, filthy minded men, who know not one thing about receiving true REVELATION  from God,  about God's Word.
 
All true doctrine matches all Scripture, and is completely PROVABLE WITH WRITTEN SCRIPTURE.
 
Until men learn that God is a Spirit, and his word is totally SPIRITUAL,  they will forever wonder around, blinded, in their night of darkness until they drop off into hell fire.
 
HOPE this enlightens your mind to truth.
Jo

Reply
 Message 4 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:12 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknameeelyahomaika</NOBR> Sent: 8/26/2006 5:53 PM
Thanks a lot Freeborn.
Wow, I never saw it that way!

Really something to ponder on.

blessings,

eelya

Reply
 Message 5 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:13 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn22</NOBR> Sent: 8/26/2006 7:03 PM
Thank you,  eela.  and may you be blessed and come to see the glorious secrets of God's Word unvailed.
 
Jo

Reply
 Message 6 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:13 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameAxs2-381</NOBR> Sent: 8/27/2006 8:56 PM

First of all, let me say that was a good answer that Freeborn has given but I would like to expound on this some more.

First we need to see what the curse is.

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

So we can see from here in Galatians that the curse is going back to the works of the law. If you keep one of the laws you must keep them all. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Also if you look at the word Canaan it does not mean just a City but has different meaning, The Word Canaan is like a lots of names that you see in the word that you think is just a name and some instances it is but in some and most instances it means something else. Let me try to show you what I mean here if I can.

Ok let’s deal with the word Canaan and to show you what I am saying .

Strong's Hebrew Definition for # 03667



03667 // Nenk // K@na`an // ken-ah'-an //

from
03665 , Greek 5477 // Xanaan // ; TWOT - 1002,1002b;

AV - Canaan 89, merchant 3, traffick 1, traffickers 1; 94

Canaan = "lowland"

n pr m
1) the 4th son of Ham and the progenitor of the Phoenicians and of
the various nations who peopled the seacoast of Palestine

n pr loc
2) the land west of the Jordan peopled by the descendants of Canaan
and subsequently conquered by the Israelites under Joshua

n m
3) merchant, trader

So from here we can see that the meaning of Canaan has different meaning than you would think.

Also when you see the name Moses, in a lots of places it does not mean the man Moses but is talking about the law of Moses. Just as it stated that God hated Esau but love Jacob . Did he hate the man Esau? No, God did not hate the man Esau.  Well what did he hate? Here in the verse where he said I HATE Esau an love Jacob what was he meaning. I wondered about this a long time and God showed me he was not referring to the man Esau but he was calling Esau the law just as Moses is the law. Jacob is not the man but it representing the New Testament of Grace.

There are several names that represent the law covenant just as the name Moses and Esau do.

Take for instance the name Saul. It represents the Old Testament law. Peter represents the New Testament. Ok let me show you another. Zacharias, [ OT law]. John [ NT grace] So if you are under the law you are a Canaanite [OT law] If you are under the NT you are a Israelite. [ Grace] Also if you are a servant, you are still under the law. If you are in the NT GRACE YOU ARE A SON OR DAUGHTER.

To show you the meaning of servant that is mentioned in Ge. 9:25 let’s go into Stongs once more.

Strong's Hebrew Definition for # 05650

05650 // dbe // `ebed // eh'-bed //

from
05647 ; TWOT - 1553a; n m

AV - servant 744, manservant 23, bondman 21, bondage 10, bondservant 1,
on all sides 1; 800

1) slave, servant
1a) slave, servant, man-servant
1b) subjects
1c) servants, worshippers (of God)
1d) servant (in special sense as prophets, Levites etc)
1e) servant (of Israel)
1f) servant (as form of address between equals)

<DIR>

So if you are a servant you are under bondage and you are bondservant and you are subject to rulers and you are a slave. Why be a slave when you can be a son or a daughter and be on equal grounds one with another. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Bond woman and her son is the law. Freewoman is the NT of Grace. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. There is much more that I could put to this but I think this is enough. Hope you can see what I was saying.


Reply
 Message 7 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:14 AM
From: joie Sent: 8/28/2006 11:04 AM
Axs,  thank you for this good message.  That is really good and full of food for the sheep of God.  I really enjoyed reading this good food today.
 
bless you, In Christ name.

Reply
 Message 8 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:14 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknameeelyahomaika</NOBR> Sent: 8/28/2006 6:24 PM
Thanks Axs,

real good food, like Freeborn already said.

I fully agree.

blessings,

eelya

Reply
 Message 9 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:14 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknamelovejoy742</NOBR> Sent: 8/28/2006 8:26 PM
Noah awoke from his wine.  Now that is totally different from anything I have ever heard.  always thought old Noah had become a drunkard.  lol   well not really, but did think he was truly drunk on something he drunk.
 

Reply
 Message 10 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:15 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameAxs2-381</NOBR> Sent: 8/29/2006 3:05 AM
Let's all get drunk on the new wine. Amen, Glory, Halleluiah. Having my self a ball here tonight by my lonesome self. Let's get full of new wine. Amen, Glory, Halleluiah. this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; Amen, Glory, Halleluiah. O, what joy  divine. new WINE [NT] must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. Old bottles [OT law] will not do. New means something fresh.

Reply
 Message 11 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:15 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameFreeborn22</NOBR> Sent: 8/29/2006 10:30 AM
wow, axs,  sounds like you is have a shouting good time there.  sure wishes me could get in on you worship service.  but me also had one before going to bed.  worshipping and loving my Jesus.

Reply
 Message 12 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 3/15/2008 1:16 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN Nicknamerollingstone444</NOBR> Sent: 10/8/2006 6:46 PM
as I read this thread, I find it very interesting.  so I looked up something about this curse, and guess what I found?
 
lookie at this:
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
when you put these together, it shows that those on the left, or the goats, are the ones under law, who are the cursed one.  Jesus redeemed us from that curse of the law.  so the ones on the right are the ones in grace.  great study.

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