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Question&Answer : TWINS?
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Reply
 Message 1 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname·Spiritwalker  (Original Message)Sent: 10/17/2003 8:49 PM
Do you think Cain and Abel were twins?


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Reply
 Message 2 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSearERICSent: 10/17/2003 9:03 PM
NO, CAIN WAS OLDER BROTHER!  Cain as a child was a loving brother, to Able.
They both knew about the lamb [ Yahshua ], in obedience Able gave his first and best to prove how much He loved Yahweh,  Caine to prove how smart he was, offered wheat,
 he knew the Messiah was to rise [ascend ].  That disobedience cost him his life, although Able was murdered, he never lost his life.
 
This is a great subject, there is so much more to it, than I have laid out here, I would like to pursue it with the group participation, if everyone else agrees?
 
Peace!


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 Message 3 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname·SpiritwalkerSent: 10/17/2003 9:08 PM
I would like to study on the Garden. 
The reason that I thought they might be twins is Adam lay with Eve and she had a son and a "while" later she had another.  Then we read that after the murder of one of these sons, Adam "lay" with Eve and she gave birth to Seth.
When you are twins, one is going to be older than the other....and didn't God say she'd have pain in childbirth?  It would be a double whammy to have twins all by yourself the first time you conceived.  At least I took it that way.

Reply
 Message 4 of 9 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 10/18/2003 1:41 AM
Haha.  That is pretty cute, Spiritwalker.  That double whamy.  I also have consider that they might have been twins on the same grounds.  It sure reads that way to me, even though it is not made clear in the Word.  It says she bear Cain, and she again bear Abel.  So this reads like the birth of twins to me.  I also thought that because of there not being that pause between them, where it says Adam knew her again,  that they must be twins.
 
I agree with you.  I do not see Abel killing and offering a sheep to God.  This was not practiced then.  God never at any time required animal offerings.  He said who has reqired this of your hands.  Abel did the NT sacrifice = he presented his body a LIVING sacrifice to God which is our reasonable service.  This is that acceptable sacrifice to God.
 
Romans 12: 1,2-- Here God said to present your bodies a LIVING sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that  GOOD, AND   ACCEPTABLE,  and PERFECT will of God.
 
Now we know that Abel's sacrifice was accepted by God.  So this scripture shows what kind of sacrifice is acceptable to God.  It was Abel living his life Holy and clean to God.  it was NT sacrifice.  That is all God has ever accepted.
 
Abel did NOT KILL ANY SHEEP AND OFFER HIS BLOOD TO GOD.  ABEL WAS ACCEPTED TO GOD WHICH MEANS HE CAME UNDER THAT JESUS COVENANT.  HE WENT IN BY FAITH UNDER THE BLOOD OF JESUS.
 
That is what Grace is.  remember that Moses was also under this grace covenant.  Big mystery here.
 
See Cain brough of his OWN WORKS TO GOD and God refused it.  So what was this?  He tried to come in the OT way = law.
This was Adam's sin = going to law.  this was Cain's sacrifice = trying to get in by the works of law.  God has never accepted this.
 
God was trying to teach Cain to live Holy as did Abel.  Those born after the flesh [see that cain was fleshly?] -- persecute those born after the Spirit.  So this proves that Cain was fleshly = law-minded,  and that Abel was Spirit minded = Holy.
 
Remember that ground means flesh.  So Cain was fleshly; offering his own works to God.  Remember that 'sheep' means the children of God.  So Abel brought the first of all he had to God and offered it to God ALIVE.  God did not want anything dead.  Abel brought his 'sheep' [ himself, a child of God] to God in holiness.
This I fully believe, is the true and only right interpretation of their sacrifices.
 
Jo

Reply
 Message 5 of 9 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 10/18/2003 5:28 AM
Cain brought the same thing his daddy Adam brought which was the thing that God had put a curse on. The earthly things that was cursed.
 
Genesis 3    
3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
3:18
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
 

Reply
 Message 6 of 9 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname·SpiritwalkerSent: 10/19/2003 12:56 AM
I can read this one 4 or 5 times.  I never saw the story that way before. 
It does make sense the way you explained it.  I appreciate that.  Thanks!

Reply
 Message 7 of 9 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 10/19/2003 1:57 AM
I would like to study on the Garden. ( spiritwalker)
 
I have a message on the 'Trees In The Garden' that we can get stared on. I will start this in a new thread.  

Reply
 Message 8 of 9 in Discussion 
From: IsaiahSent: 10/20/2003 12:31 AM
more here on the curse and the briers and the thorns.

Briers and Thorns

Heb.-6:8- But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Acts-9:5-And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

2-Cor-12:7-And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Ok what is these scriptures trying to tell us that old covenant was to be rejected or become a castaway. Those still under that old conveant will become acurse along with that O.T. covenant because they have rejected Jesus.

We know that he was rejected and that law has become acurse if we look at the following scriptures:

MAT-21:42-43-Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

021:043 -Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. [ see he said that the kingdom of God would be taken from them in other words those under the old coveant.]

Gal.3:10- showing that the law was nigh unto cursing- For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Acts-9:5- What Jesus was saying to Paul here was I know it is hard for you to go against [kick] that old convenant. You were trained or brought up under the best teachers there was.

So we see that thorn in Peter’s flesh as this [prick] one of the meanings to thorn is prick. See he was brought up under that law and it was hard from him to depart from this thing. More on this later

Acts- 9:9- And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. [ see Paul was made to be blinded but unbeknown to Paul he was already blind. He was as the blind leading the blind he thought that he was doing God a favor by persecuting the true people of God as some of you are by holding to that old covenant.

The reason that Paul was made blinded was that he was so well trained in this old covenant that the Lord had to blind him to that old covenant.

In other words he had to untrain him so that he could train him again. I hope this makes sense to you. See the training that Paul first had was from man’s teaching. Now it was going to be the anointing doing the teaching. See that is what is happing to a lots of people today they are going on what man is teaching not what the anointing is teaching.

Gal.-1:11-12-But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [ from this we see that he was not preaching that old covenant way any more because we know that way was of man. The bible said that the law was given by Moses. From this we can see that Paul was no longer preaching the law. That is why Paul said I die daily he was dieing out to that law of Moses.]

001:012 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. [ now Paul has come to the revelation or Jesus Christ he begins to preach a new and living way the N. T. way.]

1John- 2:27- But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. [See he said it was the anointing. Now how many of you know what the anointing is? John goes on and explains that it is that which ye have received of him that abideth in you. Now tell me what that is? The Holy Ghost is what we received from him. Without the Holy Ghost as they received on the day of Pentecost you will never see that these briers and thorns were the law and 10 commandments.

See he said you need no man to teach you�?Even as it has taught you

Ye shall abide in him. What does this mean abiding in him?

The word abide means to stay in one place, continue, remain. In other words he was saying stay over here in the N.T. and you remain over here where my spirit is. Continue over here there is death over in that old covenant there is no spirit over there. It is the spirit that gives us life. Continue here don’t go back to what I hated and done away with .

There is nothing over in that O.T. covenant but briers and thorns and their end is to be burned. He was saying that God had no more pleasure in that law and those 10 commandments.

Heb.-10:5-9- Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

010:006 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

010:007 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

010:008 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

010:009 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second

Eph.-2:15- Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [ the word ordinances here means law civil, ceremonial, eccl. Eccl. I think stands for ec-cle’si-as’tic which means clergyman] Whoa did I look at this right? Yes I did now where are all you law keepers that say the ceremonial laws are still in existence for us today? I think even if the word ceremonial is not in the bible this still kills your theory. It said he has abolished what? The law of commandments. He said make in himself of twain [in other words they were divided so he did away one [O.T.] to make a new man [N. T.]

To see more on these briers and thorns let’s go to beginning where it all started. Let’s go to Genesis 4:1-

004:001-- And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

004:002-- And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

004:003-- And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

OK to see what the fruits of the ground was that Cain brought unto the Lord as an offering, let’s go to Genesis 3:17-18

003:017-- And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

003:018 --Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

So we see from this that the offering that Cain brought to the Lord was already cursed. That is what the Old Testament law was, it was a curse to God. The people that are trying to live and go by the Old Testament covenant, you are offering God thorns and thistles.

Cain was of the first man Adam, because in Genesis 4:1 we can say that he was the firstborn.

1 Cor.-15:45-47-- “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.�?/FONT>

015:046-- “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.�?/FONT>

015:047-- “The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.�?

( That is the way that it had been all down through the Scripture. As in the case of Esau and Jacob. Cain and Able. Esau and Cain, also was showing the earthly, or natural, the first man Adam. Able and Jacob were symbolizing the spiritual on the second man Jesus.)

OK, now that we have seen this let me show you something here. We know from Scripture that the first man Adam was not spiritual by that which is natural.

1 Cor-15:46 -- Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Cor-2:14-- But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom. 8:7-- Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So after saying all of this we can see the reason that God did not accept Cain’s offering. He was trying to enter in by the briers and thorns, that Old Testament covenant. He was trying to enter in by the blood of Bulls, sheep, goats, tithing, Sabbath keeping, priest, prophets and all these other things that you had to do according to the Old Testament covenant.

What happened to Cain he became entangled in these briers and thorns and they choked him to death.

Mat. 13:22-- He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 
( See the word thorns here represent that Old Testament covenant. Also while I am here let me show you something else.)

Mat.13:19--When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. ( Who was the wicked one that he was talking about here? Well let me try to show you.)

1John 3:12-- Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 
 (So what I see from here is that is that the first man Adam was the wicked one which was the carnal mind that was in man. So can’t you see what we just read, that the carnal mind is enmity against God.

Math.13:20-21--

13:20
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Mat.-13:21-- Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
So we see that these briers and thorns( Old Testament covenant) will try to choke out the true word of God.

It is just like a man that has got stuck in quicksand ( miry clay) the more he tried to free himself the deeper he sunk. So if you’re trying to build your house on sand or miry clay it is going to sink deeper and deeper. You’re building it on briers and thorns.)

Ps.40:2-- He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings ( The miry clay here represents the Old Testament covenant because it was earthly.)

OK, now that we have seen that these briers and thorns were things of the Old Testament covenant. Let me try to show you something here again with Cain.

In Genesis 4:7- If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. ( In other words he gave Cain the chance to repent and bring the same offering to him as did Able, and we will see what that offering was.)

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.  ( We can see from this if Cain had repented God would have forgiven him and blotted out his sins.)

OK, to see the offering that Abel brought to God let us go back to chapter 4 of Genesis versus 4.

Genesis 4: 4.= And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: ( OK, let me show you some of these meanings of these words.

First let’s start with the word firstling- Strong's Number: 1062 -feminine of 1060; the firstling of man or beast; abstractly primogeniture: -birthright, firstborn(-ling).

Strong's Number: 1060- from 1069; firstborn; hence, chief: -eldest (son), firstborn(-ling).

Strong's Number: 1069 - a primitive root; properly, to burst the womb, i.e. (causatively) bear or make early fruit (of woman or tree); also (as denominative from 1061) to give the birthright: -make firstborn, be firstling, bring forth first child (new fruit). ( Very interesting and we can see from this that Abel inherited the birth right that rightfully belong to Cain. There is more here that meets the eye that I do not want to get into at this time.)

And of the fat thereof. ( The word fat does not mean what a lots of you think.)

Strong's Number: 2459 - from an unused root meaning to be fat; fat, whether literally or figuratively; hence, the richest or choice part: -X best, fat(-ness), X finest, grease, marrow.

John 2- 10. And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. (So what I am saying from this is that Able gave the New Testament way. First of all you give all of yourself to God and you give him the best. See he save the last for the best, he said that which is worse was that which was first those briers and thorns that we have been referring to.

You see that Abel gave the New Testament way-

Romans 12:1- �?I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.�?

( That is what Abel did be presented his body a living sacrifice and that is the only sacrifice that God will accept in the New Testament. We know that he did present his body because it cost him his life.

Also a shadow and type of Jesus Christ. I can go on and on but I think I will stop here. Maybe this study will help someone, I don’t know whether it will or not that I have done my best to bring this forth, in other words I have gave you the fat, and also have presented my body a living sacrifice and that is all that God wants and that is a reasonable service

May God Bless.


Reply
 Message 9 of 9 in Discussion 
From: joieSent: 10/20/2003 3:11 AM
Larry, this is a great message.  I just too sleepy now to really study it.  I want this in print so I can take it to bed with me and study it.  That is what I do most nights, read till I can go to sleep.  Last night I took about 6 of my messages to bed with me.
 
It seems to me I never heard some of it before.  I say God you had to give that to me, for right now I know I could not put that together.
 
Lam. 1:19.  I called for my lovers, but they deceived me: my priests and mine elders gave up the ghost in the city, while they sought their meat to relieve their souls.
 20.  Behold, O Lord; for I am in distress: my bowels are troubled; mine heart is turned within me; for I have grievously rebelled: abroad the sword bereaveth, at home there is as death.
 21.  They have heard that I sigh: there is none to comfort me: all mine enemies have heard of my trouble; they are glad that thou hast done it: thou wilt bring the day that thou hast called, and they shall be like unto me.
 22.  Let all their wickedness come before thee; and do unto them, as thou hast done unto me for all my transgressions: for my sighs are many, and my heart is faint.
Here the OT which God has cut off is speaking and prophecying about the polluted church and saying that God will do unto them as He did unto her.
So Church, your day is just around the corner.  Your downfall is on its way.  You will be put aside and destroyed just as the polluted OT was.
 
God will not have a polluted group.  The true group will stay true to God all the way.
 
Jo

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