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This is a thread started by a past member, Grave Robber. He asked me if I believe in a rapture. I told him to start this discussion with a verse which he thinks shows a rapture. This is the one he started with:

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Sent: 9/14/2005 10:23 AM

OK Joie,

Here is one:

John 14:1-3 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." (KJV)

Jesus says that he "will come again and recieve you unto" himself. I understand this as Jesus saying that when he returns to recieve his bride (the church), that he will "recieve" the bride of Christ unto himself, meaning when Jesus comes in the clouds, "there ye may be, where I am."

This verse alone does not fully explain the full picture of the rapture. I will add the other verses that help to explain the full event.

From: joie

Sent: 9/14/2005 11:44 AM

Ok now Jesus said I will COME AGAIN.. where is he coming to? Back to earth, right?

So he said that where I am there ye may be also. Where? Earth. But of course it has a spiritual meaning as well. Where is HE? In the image of God. So then we will be resurrected when he returns and caught up into this glorious image of God, which is glorification.

So shall we ever be with our Lord. He will rule here on this earth forever. There we will be also.

Now where did He go......to prepare us a place? He WENT into death, hell and the grave. He came again, so we could be given eternal life to be with Him in his eternal Kingdom here on earth.

It said Where I am there ye may be also. so then do you suppose we will be forever in those clouds?

also the other verse people misuse to think this, says, we are caught up to meet the Lord in the air, so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So then, will we be forever in clouds?

Where do you suppose AIR is?

Are you not breathing air right now?

If so, then why suppose that we must go sailing off up into the atmosphere some place to be in the air?

I am under the understanding that Air is not up but a small space. So how far up will we be going? THINK!

From: joie

Sent: 9/14/2005 11:50 AM

Dear one, please study this with an open heart, ready to receive the ingrafted Word of God, proven by all Scripture.

Now does the Word of God teach that unless Jesus had gone up to heaven, we would not have salvation? I do not know of that being in the Word.

Now see that the verse you gave said I go to prepare a place for you...... so this is saying that where he went [the place he is speaking of] is the place he had to go to in order to prepare a place for us. Do you see that?

Now the Word says that without his death and resurrection we would not have salvation. So the place he went, to prepare us a place,,,was into his death and resurrection.

HOpe you can see this. He did not go to heaven to prepare us a place, for our place will be here on this earth eternally.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

From: joie

Sent: 9/14/2005 11:57 AM

Before we go any further, take the time to look up the meaning of the word, CLOUDS. Look it up in the English dictionary and also look for the meaning of this symbol in the Holy Scriptures. For this is the only place you will find any real truth.

Clouds in the Word of God is NOT speaking of the little mist of water vapor up above us, or sometimes down on the ground.

Look up the meaning of the Word AIR. Reason in your own mind, where is AIR? Find out what the Scripture means when it uses this symbol. This is the one and ONLY way of learning any real truth. Don't just accept made up myths. Search the Scriptures for the TRUTH. And remember that all Scripture must agree with each other.

I hope you will stay in this study all the way.

Satan is prince of the power of the AIR. What does this mean, air?

From: joie

Sent: 9/14/2005 12:12 PM

Have you ever studied in the Scripture what the terms 'HOUSE' and 'mansions' mean? If not, you also need to study this.

2co 5:1	For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2co 5:2	For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2co 5:3	If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2co 5:4	For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Now can you see from the above verses that Paul calls our bodies an earthly HOUSE?

He said we groan in this house, our body. we are desiring to be CLOTHED upon with our HOUSE which is from heaven. [see we will not walk into this house, we will be 'wearing' it]

So what is that HOUSE? How will we be CLOTHED with a HOUSE?

See that he also called this house a tabernacle, saying we are in this tabernacle and are groaning?

Verse 4 says that we will clothed upon with immortality, or that mortality [this earthly body] will be swallowed up of LIFE. So then, this LIFE is that HOUSE from heaven, or our glorified BODY.

Now can you see that this clearly identifies that MANSION from Heaven as our GLORIFIED BODY? When are we clothed upon with immortality?

At our resurrection, just as Jesus received his Mansion from heaven, or his glorified body at his resurrection.

He is saying that we will be forever with him in GLORIFICATION. It is totally SPIRITUAL. He is not speaking of NATURAL HOUSES , MANSIONS, AND SUCH. This will be HEAVEN.

Glory. Notice also that he said this HOUSE was eternal in the heavens...proving that it existed long before Jesus died or went to Heaven.

So he did not go up to heaven to make us a house. this is the height of carnal baby myths.

What a glorious subject to dwell in! This is the perfect place to start a study of the 'rapture' lie from. If you get the truth about this 'house' mansion' etc. you will be a long way down the road to understanding what you 'think' teaches a 'rapture'.

From: Isaiah

Sent: 9/17/2005 4:44 AM

Acts- 1:4- And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Acts-1:8- But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth

Acts-1:9- And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts-1:11- Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven

Rev-1:7- Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Now to show you these clouds . First I need to show you the meaning of the word cloud. It means more than you think it does.

The meaning of the word cloud- a visible mass of condensed water or ice crystals in the sky, it also means a crowd; a swarm.

As was stated above about the cloud of witnesses.

Heb.-12:1-Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, [ so we see from this that the cloud represents a crowd of people, or a swarm of people.] Now the question who are these people and where did they come from? To get the answer let’s go to-

Mat.-27:52- And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

027:053 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. [ see it said they went in the holy city which is why I underlined Jerusalem at the beginning of this. It said those which slept arose. Now let’s go to

1 Thess.-4:14-17- For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [ see same thing as Mat. Is saying in the above when he said they slept]

004:015 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.[ see the two or three witnesses.]

004:016 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

004:017 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [see we will be caught up in the clouds or that crowed of people to forever more to be with the Lord.]

1 Thes.3:13- To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. [Same thing as Rev.1:7 is saying- Behold, he cometh with clouds;

To me this proves that those clouds that received Jesus up in the air were those old testament saints that came out of the graves and they are going to be as Acts 1:9 and Acts 1:11 states-

1:9- And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight

1:11- Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

1Cor. 15: 51--Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED.

v53--For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. v54--So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This, is the VERY SAME EVENT AS IN 1 THES. 4. - BEING CAUGHT UP MEANS BEING CHANGED INTO IMMORTALITY.

We are not going anywhere. We are going to be changed to be immortal as those resurrected saints. We shall be caught up to be immortal same as they. We shall ALL BE CHANGED.

CHANGED IS CAUGHT UP. That fake 'taking them up into the sky' is made up myths -- out of carnal minds. It is not borne out anywhere in the Word of God. I hope you can wake up and see the real truth.

Those 'clouds of glory' means those many resurrected saints of God -- a very great multitude--- look it up in a good dictionary.

Cloud represents God's Glory - not those little 'clouds' you look up and see in the sky. How is that God's Glory?

I hope that maybe this has opened some understanding about these clouds that received Jesus up.

Thank God for his glorious truth.

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