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Talk Wrestling : Wrestlemania 23
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 Message 1 of 16 in Discussion 
From: WallStreet  (Original Message)Sent: 4/2/2007 3:46 AM
Your thoughts. What'd ya like, what didn't ya like. What match did you most want to see, what match did you enjoy the most after the fact. Talk Wrestlemania folks.


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 Message 2 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameJimmyStryker�?/nobr>Sent: 4/2/2007 4:26 AM
My opinion is this, Wrestlemania was pretty good. However I have my flaws.
 
Money In The Bank: I was rooting for Finlay or Mr Kennedy. At least I was right on one of my choices for this matchup. And This by far was one of the best matches of the evening. Jeff and Edge. All I can say is OUCH!!!!
 
Kane vs Khali: BORING BORING!!! I only paid attention cause my son is a fan of Kane!!!
 
Chris Benoit vs MVP: Ok now this was a match I was just completly out of it with. My jaw dropped when Benoit won it with the head butt. Ok, come on people, YOU COULD HAVE LET HIM WIN IT WITH THE CROSSFACE!!! Jesus!!!
 
Undertaker vs Batista: This was in fact the match of the night. Ok Taker is the man, stand up and applaud the Deadman. He is the master! Congrats Taker on becoming the new World Heavyweight Champion.  As for Batista, you got what was coming you idiot. Thanks for being a trooper and dropping your title, cause people couldnt really stand you much anyways.
 
ECW Origionals vs The New Breed: Ok ok, this was the worst match of the night. I thought it would be more entertaining, but I proved myself wrong. Thank you ECW for ruining my night with your boring match.
 
Billionare vs Billionare: Ok now this was a GREAT MATCH!!  Bobby and Umaga battled it out, Shane shows up, StoneCold gets beat up a bit, but StoneCold took it like a man. The guy still has it, and you know he is not finished for one second. Umaga got what was coming, and So did Vince. GEt cleaned up baldy, Cause your RAW showing of you bald, is coming tomorrow night Vince!!!  The best of the night, all of the stunners, including the one on Donald Trump. I would watch that one over and over again!!! Plus the one on Umaga, Fuck You punk, you should just quit while your ahead dumbass, cause you just dont have any real talent.
 
Melina vs Ashley: Come on, this could have been much better, but hey what can you do when you got two no talents in the ring battling for a championship, that really means nothing to them, nor helps them in any way. Good job Melina, you are just a waste of everyones time. And Ashley, go pose again sweetie, Im sure someone enjoys getting off over your pics more than they do seeing you wrestle.
 
John Cena vs HBK:  Ok, now this was a decent match. As Matlock put it nicely, John Cena is great when he gets his ass kicked for most of the time. Good Job Cena, you found a way inside to keep that title you fucker!! Just another Hulk Hogan ripoff and you should be kicked in the groin area repeatedly until you pass out. HBK, should of been the WWE Champion, he deserves it, he gave everything to that company and Cena hasnt done shit when it comes to being the champion. He hasnt faced good competiton until HBK. HBK owned him in the match, and HBK should have won the WWE CHampionship. The end

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 Message 3 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaptainSagaraSent: 4/2/2007 4:54 AM
I thought it was excellent!
 
Money in the Bank: I picked Kennedy to win initially, but knew the match would be great. Jeff and Matt are always good for those high spots. Loved the spots with Orton RKO'ing everyone, especially off the ladder! The Little Bastard was excellently done, and I LOVE Kennedy's attitude, the cold look in his eye when the bastard hit him. Excellent match! For a second, I thought Kennedy might come out at the end and beat the tired Cena.
 
Khali vs. Kane: I thought this was a little better than most people said it was gonna be. They kept it short and sweet, and Khali is at least making improvement, but he can't go much farther.
 
For the record, I almost shit my pants when all the old wrestlers were in the back with Cryme Tyme. Slick? I.R.S????? Steamboat? GIVE RON SIMMONS THE TITLE! haha jk... haha Moolah still looks good, haha (in a non perverted way)
 
Benoit vs. MVP: I was SOOOOO surprised with MVP's performance. I've rarely seen this guy work, but I was really impressed. Maybe it was because of Benoit, but this kid showed a lot of talent. I wouldn't be surprised if he has the world title in 3 years. The match reminded me of the one between Benoit and Angle, i think it was a few years ago at Wrestlemania.
 
I'm sorry, but I love the Boogeyman, he cracks me up...."Get me a sandwich" haha
 
Taker vs. Batista: What can I say, it was an excellent match. Hopefully, my boy Kennedy will take at Summerslam or something, i don't know...
 
ECW Originals vs. New Breed: Man, I wish I had sci fi here so I can see more of The Alpha Male. May I just say that RVD is definitely my favorite in ring performer of all time. Okay match, not that great, glad the originals won, on a five star no less!
 
Hair vs. Hair: Haha, how pimp was that that Trump ran over and beat Vince's ass, and then just walked away like a pimp?! haha, sure it was unintentional, but who cares? I said around the time of the Great American Bash, that I didn't like Lashley because he needed to open up and become an animal. Well no I love the guy cause he's a beast! Great match, loved Stone Cold vs. Umaga, and I'm such a Shane o'mac fan that I love his sacrifice dives! Excellent match, but not better than Batista and Undertaker...
 
Melina vs. Ashley: Left the room to go take a piss and when I came back, it was over. haha
 
Cena vs. HBK: I'll be honest, I'm a huge mark for Cena. I love his effort, I love how he presents himself in the ring, and I love that he's one of the reasons I'm getting back into wrestling again after I stopped watching it a long time ago. So that's why this is gotta be one of my favorite matches of all time! I knew once it got going it would be better than the Taker/Batista match. It got me going every step of the way, and it sucks the fans seem to hate him so much. I think a match is great when it pulls me in the ring with them and makes me feel what the competitors feel, and this match did it for me. Hell I was tired after the match, haha. So I loved it. If I had to guess what happened, I'd say they drop the tag titles soon, and they have a rematch at backlash, which HBK wins...and HHH takes it at Summerslam. Just thinkin'

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 Message 4 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameÇöŕńēŕĕďĂńĩmâŀ-ΜĀŤĽÖÇĶSent: 4/2/2007 4:57 AM
Alright, allow the Lockster to break this all down for ya.
 
First of all, I believe that whoever they have on the production crew should be moved to the booking committee. Because they showed the match highlights out of order, BUT it was in the order they SHOULD have been in. The match highlights went something like this:
 
  • MITB
  • Kane/Khali
  • Originals/New Blood
  • Benoit/MVP
  • Battle of The Billionaires
  • Women's Title
  • Taker/Batista
  • HBK/Cena

Instead, they actually went like this:

  • MITB
  • Kane/Khali
  • Benoit/MVP
  • 'Taker/Batista (side note: wtf?)
  • Originals/New Blood
  • Battle of The Billionaires
  • Women's Title
  • HBK/Cena

Yes, folks. ECW was booked higher then Batista/Undertaker. The Women's Title was booked higher then Batista/Undertaker. Hair vs. Hair was booked higher then Batista/Undertaker. What, the fuck?

But, onto the actual show:

  • My friend and I were hoping and praying that the Money in The Bank match wouldn't be first off. But, sadly, it was. As my buddy Garrett said, "what do we have to look forward to the rest of the night?" As we would soon find out, not much. But, one thing at a time. MITB, was by far, the best match of the night. It started off as you'd expect; everyone brawling outside with two guys in the spotlight in the ring. Went back and forth and everyone had their moments. Highlights of the match included:
    • CM Punk blasting everyone with a stepladder.
    • Punk getting a spear from Edge and the ladder hitting Finlay & Booker.
    • Little Bastard trying to get the briefcase for Finlay, puncing Kennedy twice before getting a Ken-Ton from Kennedy.
    • The Hardyz stacking two ladders on top of one another and dropping....someone on top. Can't remember who exactly.
    • Kennedy going for a swanton off the top onto...someone who was on a ladder...missing and cracking his head. This was followed by Jeff Hardy going for a swanton and connecting.
    • Biggest spot of the night: Jeff Hardy, while close to getting the briefcase, foolishly listens to Matt Hardy, and leaps off a 20 foot ladder onto Edge....who was laid across a ladder stretching from the barricade to the apron. This move BROKE THE LADDER IN HALF and resulted in Edge being taken out on a stretcher.
  • So, after a hot opening bout we expected something good to follow. We got, Kane Vs. The Great Khali. Now, come on. No one was expecting much out of this. But my friend is a huge Kane mark. Which is why he got so upset here. This match wasn't even FUCKING HOUSE SHOW WORTHY! Punch, kick, punch, kick, clothesline, blah blah blah. Best part was Kane body slamming Khali (which someone in the production crew compared to Hogan slamming Andre in the ending video of the show, again, wtf?) In the end, Khali wins after a choke bomb and a FOOT on Kane. Yes, ONE FOOT PIN on Kane.
  • This was followed by Benoit vs. MVP. I had hope for this one. I like MVP, I think he's cool. The entrance with the cheerleaders was good but short of what I expected. Benoit had his usual entrance. Nothing special. This match...was not Mania quality. More like Smackdown quality, barely. Mild back and forth stuff. Clean pinfall by Benoit after three Germans and a headbutt from the top. Only THREE Germans? It's fucking 'Mania and he only does THREE German suplexes?
  • Now then, I think someone in the WWE is completely FUCKED IN THE HEAD. Because now it's time for UNDERTAKER VERSUS BATISTA! Yes, the FOURTH match on the fucking card is Title vs. Streak. ....The hell? ...Anyway. I was expecting a cool 'Taker entrance. Which it was but it fell below expectations; his levitation to the ring a few years ago was better. Instead we had Druids (a lot of fuckin' Druids)  come out, a large blast of pyro and then 'Taker walked out, while a bunch of flames shot out. ....Batista was already in the ring at this point, having made his entrance first and allowing my friend and I to notice for the first time how fucking wide the stage was. Anyway, the bell rang, and off we went.

    It was a solid match, and entertaining. But I'm a 'Taker mark anyway. Cole put it best; it was a roller coaster. Back and forth, back and forth. Batista hit a big time powerslam through the ECW announce table. That's the main highlight. Finally, after a tombstone 'Taker sealed the deal and walked out with the title. I was happy, and worth my half of the $50 cost of the show.
  • This was followed by ECW Originals vs. The New Breed. Yes folks; Matt Striker, Sabu, The Sandman, and even TNA's Monty Brown (or Marcus Cor Von, w/e) are booked after The Undertaker. No wonder they all looked so ecstatic in the ring. The match was alright but it wasn't hardcore rules or anything. Mainly just one big spotfest. Then again it was the second match with eight guys in it in one night. The Originals picked up a win when RVD frog splashed Striker. This was followed by Joey Styles having an orgasm in his chair by the sound of his voice.
  • Then we had the 'Battle of the Billionaires'. I thought it would be later on in the night ,but meh. ....Now, as my friend stated, before it was even said on TV....the fucking barber chair got ITS OWN ENTRANCE. Yes, they played some cheesy music as the BARBER CHAIR made its way to the ring. It got to levitate, but 'Taker didn't?

    The match started off and it was about as hard hitting as you'd expect from Lashley & Umaga. The action really picked up when Umaga got out of hand and Austin pulled him off, getting the Samoan Spike for his troubles. At this point Shane McMahon was out to check on Vince who had been knocked off the apron. Shane would get into the ring, lay in some punches to Lashley before asking his head for a trash can. Shane did a coast-to-coast on Lashley before taking off his shirt to reveal a ref shirt.  The match went on a bit longer and Shane went to make the count until Austin recovered and pulled him out of the ring. He tossed Shane into the steps, got in the ring, and got ANOTHER spike. I think somewhere around this time, Trump had enough, came over and speared McMahon the floor and "punched" (more like tapping his fist) on Vince's head. Anyway, eventually Austin would recover, get in the ring, hit Umaga with a stunner, Lashley would get a spear in on him, and pick up the win. McMahon tried to slink away, but Lashley chased him and grabbed him and carried Vince to the ring. (he should've speared him) Austin got a stunner and then VINCE GOT SHAVED. And believe it or not, the biggest pop of the night at this point came for Donald Trump; or more accuratly the ELECTRIC RAZOR TRUMP HELD UP. Yes a fucking ELECTRIC RAZOR got one of the biggest pops of the night. Anyway, after all this, Vince cried, covered in shaving cream....and then Austin hit Trump with a stunner! I made a joke they should bag some of Vinnie Mac's hair and put it up at WWEshop.com. Guaranteed people would bid on it.
  • Now....for like, maybe the second Wrestlemania in the past couple of years, the pre-main event is the fucking Women's title match. Wtf again? The ladies looked very nice as they all came out. Melina came out minus Johnny Nitro. Weird. The match was decent, but less then 10 minutes long. Ashley actually hit a few moves. End came after a series of pinfall reversals which lead to Melina getting the pin with a bridge. Then of course came the inevitable Diva cat fight, and then Melina left with the heel divas, namely Trinity and Jillian from what I saw.
  • Finally, HBK versus Cena. I think Taker/Batista should have been last but the bookers are idiots anyway. Cena's entrance was sorta cool. Crap compared to his mafiaso one a few years back. Basically it showed a Ford driving through the streets to the FORD Centre, driving in and breaking through the Wrestlemania Glass (WM has glass now?) Then he got out of the car and hit the ring. HBK came out to DX music in an outfit reminiscent of his 90s matches. As for the match, it was good. But as with ANY and ALL John Cena matches, he got his ass kicked most of the match. Highlights were a springboard moonsault from HBK onto Cena on the announce table (which didn't give), HBK giving Cena a piledriver on the steel steps, a series of finisher reversals from both guys and two really nasty sounding superkicks; one to Cena and one to the ref. Both guys bled which was good. In the end, after a series of reversals, Cena got the STFU in and HBK tapped.

And that was it. Lackluster? Better believe it. Worth $49.99? No. Maybe half that. My friend and I thought that maybe Kennedy would come out and cash in his MITB shot at the end of the night, but that was when we thought Taker/Batista was at the end.  The matches were booked in a horrible order; odd how Vince can hate ECW so much he books them higher on the card then Undertaker. All the pyro they talked about on WWE.com seemed to have dissapeared; I mean 14 guys working like 12 hours days for a week and we get so little pyro? WTF?!

Also, they mentioned an un-aired match. It was a TAG TEAM LUMBERJACK MATCH! ....How many of those have you ever seen? It was Ric Flair & Carlito versus Gregory Helms & Chavo Guerrero, with the lumberjacks being essentially everyone who didn't get booked. Any buildup? No. Any heat behind it? No. But I would have rather watched it then Kane/Khali or the Lumberjill match.

People think of Wrestlemania III as one of the best ever; I recently saw Wrestlemania 2 featured on Wrestlecrap.com. My friend asked me if WM23 was a WM 2, a WM3 or in between? I'd say it's in between. For all the hype, it wasn't that good. Previous Wrestlemanias I've watched, even stretching back to WM19, were better then this.

And just an odd side note personally; usually my friend orders WM, we go to watch it, and it's good. My friend & I order it, stay at my place, and it sucks ass. ...Interesting isn't it?

So, that's my take on the show. What's yours?


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 Message 5 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameÇöŕńēŕĕďĂńĩmâŀ-ΜĀŤĽÖÇĶSent: 4/2/2007 5:08 AM
Ah yes, I almost forgot about a few things, thanks Joe. Yes, Orton RKO-ing everything in sight was beautiful. And the two segments were awesome as well. I could argue your opinion of Cena; all he does his get his ass kicked constantly and then comes in to win it at the end with a few moves. Don't believe me? Watch any match of his, at least lately. He gets beaten around, comes back, wins. His earlier stuff was much better. If its your favorite match of all time, that's pretty bad because I could name about five matches better then it. And Benoit/MVP reminding you or Benoit/Angle? ....

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 Message 6 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLeÅkÿfØ®mÅtSent: 4/2/2007 5:23 AM
they did the show order right...
 
if they did it in the order you had...with the matches that was presented...the crowd would have been dead after the second match...you would have been sleeping...$50 bucks down the drain
 
you keep the crowd on their feet and the suspense in the air...by mixing it up...rather than go matchups and buildups...see why the woman's title before the shawn/cena match...was because it made the next match much better...
 
from what i read the benoit/mvp really didnt bring out much...but and then again batista is wishy washy when it comes to his A game...some shows he brings it some he lacks something...so with that in mind that spot was good...rolling a long...the ecw match...should have been done under extreme rules...for being that high on the card plus some interaction with CM PUNK playng a part in the win/lose
 
 

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 Message 7 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameÇöŕńēŕĕďĂńĩmâŀ-ΜĀŤĽÖÇĶSent: 4/2/2007 5:47 AM
Ya know Leaky thanks because you reminded me of something. It wouldn't matter if the crowd was dead, BECAUSE THEY WERE THE WHOLE NIGHT. I mean fuck, I've seen funerals get more of a response then that crowd gave. Only time they popped was for Trump's razor and when they see-sawed between cheers and boos during the main event. Outside of that, they were catatonic most of the night.

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 Message 8 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameҒяǿитLϊиёғҳSent: 4/2/2007 8:04 AM
Here is what I think about WM23. MEH!
 
MITB - was good, but I dunno, it just wasn't as good as it could have been. I mean this match needed more fo CM Punk and Matt Hardy. Edge getting taken out was an amazing spot, but that should have been saved for later in the match. This match was too short and not as action packed as it could have been with the caliber of stars in this match. I was impressed, but not overjoyed.
 
Kane Khali - Piss Break. Got back it was over.
 
Benoit MVP - Impressive. Not a spectacular match, but I was impressed to see MVP go to the next level with his ring work. Not a great match but at least Benoit went over.
 
Taker Batista - Match of the night!!!!! This was just plain Superb! Taker had an awesome showing and sold batista as a credible champion. However Batista also  stepped up his game. If he wrestled like that every match he would be a serious threat, and taken seriously.
 
ECW - WASTE of time... Lol I went to the sink to get a drink and it was over, I saaw the entrances and I saw RVD get the win.. i was shocked, but at the same time I didn't care. this was a waste of a match.
 
BOTB - Great stuff. There were a lot of run ins and other things, but it all worked. This put over both people in this match because lord knows Black Lesnar... I mean Bobby Lashley is the worst champion in years, and Umaga is well, pretty damn sad himself, but still a step up from Black lesnar. The Trump attack on vince was good. And vince crying as they shaved his head was class.
 
Lumberjills - Second piss break.. I saw the after match rmble and the minor wardrobe malfunction. but nothing worth it.
 
Main Event - Most annoying match of the night. CENA still has proven he has no talent. This showed that even more than anything else. this was a waste of WWE WM tv time. I hope they get the title out of the hands of CENA soon. Dear god, I will pay you to do it! KILL him even!

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 9 of 16 in Discussion 
Sent: 4/6/2007 2:51 PM
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 Message 10 of 16 in Discussion 
From: WallStreetSent: 4/6/2007 3:10 PM
 
I've taken a little time getting to this as I've been doing results and what not since Mania. And right now I'm kinda tired, but in short here's my thoughts.
 
MITB: I came in half way into the match, but that didn't bother me as I never get impressed by these types of matches anyway. I don't care for stunt shows, especially when Edge, who is easily my favorite wrestler in this match, is virtually guaranteed a loss. It also didn't make me ecstatic that Kennedy won as He's grown very stale to me. Although I was happy to see Jeff Hardy didn't win, although That Joy was quickly taken from me the next night on Raw when I found out I have to deal with the Hardy Boyz again. Great, two guys who can't work a mic, one guy who can't wrestle, and another guy who can wrestle alright, but isn't any better than any mid-card or top tier Indy performer out there. Yay me.
 
Kane Verses Kahli - This match happened because Bigshow and Hogan couldn't. Somebody on the creative team had a real hard on for recreating Andre/Hogan from mania three since they were in the same city it originally took place and they were determined come Hell or High water they were gonna get that. Since they couldn't do Hogan/Show, their answer became Kahli/Kane. What they didn't get was 1.) You can't recreate moments like that. There will never be another Andre-Hogan Bodyslam moment again... EVER. Especially when guys like John Cena and Brock Lesnar have lifted everyone including the bigshow anyway. Back when Hogan did it, it was still a big deal for a big man to be picked up, and especially when that bigman was the biggest around at the time, Andre. Now it's nothing... That's why I thought it was incredibly lame when John Cena couldn't lift Umaga for the FU despite having FUed The Bigshow. Regardless, I didn't expect anything good out of this match, but to WWE's credit they don't make Kahli matches long because they're just as aware as we are that he can't wrestle.
 
Benoit - MVP: This match was great. This was the best mat display of the night. I hadn't been impressed with MVP up until this point. I don't forsee the world title in his future as soon as Jeff does (if ever even), but I certainly believe this match will have a major positive impact on his career in the WWE. Great match.
 
Taker-Batista: My feed went out on this match so all I got was Radio essentially lol. So I really can't judge this match.
 
ECW - The only people in this match I cared about were Tommy Dreamer, Matt Striker, and Kevin Thorn. Sabu, Meh, whatever. Sandman's a waste of space. He's not a wrestler... Matter of fact, He's essentially no different than any guy sitting at home watching this, I dare say most people watching at home could probably out perform Sandman in everyway. Once ECW's deal with Sci Fi is over so too will Sandman's deal with the WWE. RVD... I can't wait till he goes to TNA, Because I don't watch TNA and thus won't have to see him again. I hope he breaks his leg again. Anyone else doesn't rank on my "care enough to mention" meter. Personally I thought this match went the perfect length for what it was, and what it was, was a popcorn match. A Match designed to calm the fans down from their excitement from the previous match so that they're relaxed and have the energy to get stoked about the next match.
 
Billionare V.S. Billionare - This match was too easy to read. If you even tried to convince yourself Donald Trump MIGHT lose his hair, you lost the ability to do that the minute Steve Austin got knocked out... And if that didn't tell you Lashley was gonna win, Shane having a referee's shirt should have. When Vince pulls out all the screw jobs, you know they're gonna backfire on him to put the face over. A Vince McMahon screw job hasn't gone his way since the Attitude era. As for the actual wrestling, Umaga's  great for what he is, which is a Monster. He plays his character well. If I ever see Umaga deliver a rear waistlock take down, sprawl around into a front facelock followed by a hammerlock I'll change the channel. If I ever see Umaga chain wrestle or start putting together a scientific match I'll change the channel. Umaga isn't sad, he's playing a character. It'd make ZERO sense for Umaga to work like Shawn Michaels or an 80s Ric Flair. As for Bobby Lashley... I don't like Lashley but that's because I don't like his promos and for me talking's not only AS important, but MORE important than your in ring (obviously Vince McMahon agrees since 95% of the top spot guys in the last ten years have been great talkers). But I don't know why all of a sudden people are claiming he can't wrestle. For his size he's a great wrestler. He may not work an incredibly scientific style, but it's not because he can't, it's because he's being pushed as a Beast. Some of you people really don't seem to grasp the concept of Psychology and your style making sense to your character. If you think Moves are just moves and it doesn't matter who does what move as long as they can wrestle you have no idea what the Hell you're talking about. Just because everyone doesn't work great mat classics, or stupid spot monkey specticals doesn't make them bad performers.
 
Womens Match - I don't take Women's wrestling seriously anyway so this didn't bother me. And to correct Aaron (although I feel bad doing so since he's not online anymore), Melina can wrestle quite well. You'll probably see that more when she works with Mickey James at Backlash. But don't get it twisted, Melina's good... Not that It matters that much because the Women's division is irrelevent. Ultimatly it should just be called the "Popcorn Division" because Women's matches really are only applied to the show as popcorn matches anyway.
 
Main Event - Great match. John Cena and Shawn Michaels did very well, My only criticisim of the match in itself is that Cena  didn't remember to keep selling the leg injury after Shawn Michaels worked that leg over so well for that stretch of time. But the match was good. I didn't like the finish though. If Cena was going to go over, it should have been with FU and a pin. John Cena's not a submission wrestler no matter how much they try and make us believe he is and put over his version of the STF. And for the record, that's a terrible STF, There's backyard wrestlers who apply that move better. John Cena's not as bad as everyone says he is, he just isn't very good at that perticular move and in my opinion should stop using it. I'm sure Ol' Brother Love said "Well ya know Champ, people are givin ya heat over the way ya wrestle so let's mix things up and make ya less predictable by adding a submission finish to your move list too. But don't change anything else, and don't worry about learning the hold real well, those guys you're facing can put the move over for ya." I don't blame Cena, I blame the retards in his ear.
 
But on a whole, I thought it was a solid enough show. Now mind you, I watched it for free, I may have a different opinion had I paid 50 bucks for it, but I didn't. I liked it.

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 Message 11 of 16 in Discussion 
From: ¤Ðªn†e¤Sent: 4/6/2007 10:44 PM
God damn you drink the kool aid brotha ..

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 Message 12 of 16 in Discussion 
From: WallStreetSent: 4/7/2007 3:22 AM
Perhaps I do to an extent, but it's not a question of drinking the Kool Aid, it's a question of watching the product for what it is and enjoying that product. While I enjoy a good scientific match as much as the next guy, It's not something I have to have to be entertained. Wrestling's a Work, it's fixed, it's make believe. Yeah, the stress on their bodies is real, and there really is a competitive aspect to it, it's just not in the way of wins and losses. But at the end of the night, It is a Work. I know it's a work, but for two hours and ten minutes every monday, and about three hours every forth Sunday You watch it to get involved in the story and the characters presented. When I put Die Hard with a Vengence on my TV I don't sigh at what I'm seeing because the John McClain character is over the top and does work as the greatest cop of all time. Because the character of John McClain isn't suppose to be an incredible cop from a desk and protocol standpoint, he's supposed to be wreckless with a lot of heart a ton of balls, and a stratgic mind.
 
Now I know you're not huge on characters and stories, which is why TNA works for you. But for me, I want characters that entertain me and stories I can enjoy. Umaga is a character that entertains me. He doesn't have to be a phenominal in ring technician, and that character shouldn't be an in ring technician anymore than John McClain should be a pencil pusher. If you want to watch a great wrestling match, that's what they have Shawn Michaels, Edge and the Worlds Greatest Tag Team on the show for. If you want to get a solid mic worker, that's what they Have Shawn Michaels, Edge, John Cena, Vince McMahon and Armando Estrada on the show. If you want to see larger than life characters, that's why you have Umaga on Raw and the Undertaker on Smackdown. If you want T&A That's what the Women's division is there for. The WWE is, as Eric Bischoff once put it, "An Entertainment Buffet". It's not designed to appeal to one perticular genre of fan, nor is it designed to appeal to a cult audience...That's what ECW was there for and now ECW's a brand extension of the WWE, So I think it's evident that McMahon knows what he's doing.
 
The WWE is designed to appeal to a mass audience comprised primarly of people who just watch for two hours to be entertained, don't hover around the net for gossip, and just go on about their day. It's designed for people who aren't constantly criticizing it because it's not their exact image of what it should be, but the people who turn the channel if they aren't entertained, and applaud when they are. There are aspects about the WWE I like, and aspects I don't like. There are performers I like, and performers I don't like. But I don't spend much time talking about the negatives because the rest of the internet's been crying about their negatives for as long as I've been online. I'm here to play Devil's advocate and to point out not just the positives, but the reasons behind the things you people consider negatives. So if drinking the Kool Aid means I enjoy the product and I understand why the decisions that are made, are in fact made, then yes, I drink the Kool Aid and I do so very happily. If drinking the Kool Aid's too suggest that I'm just some mark who doesn't get or appreciate a quality wrestling match and doesn't understand the business to as much of an extent as anybody can without actually being on the road working full time, then I'd tend to disagree with that assessment.

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 Message 13 of 16 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameҒяǿитLϊиёғҳSent: 4/7/2007 3:46 AM
So yeah, I am inclined to agree with Dante.... you chug the koolaide!
 
but yes, you see, You love WWE and completely dis on anything that is not WWE, especially TNA and Japan. But you know what, they way you rag on everyone not WWE is the same as When TNA fans Rag on WWE. TNA fans look for more wrestling, more quality matches, they tend to watch other indy feds and shows from other countries. Most TNA fans will admit they watch it cause its better than any other wrestling on TV, but they almost all wish RoH had a television deal. So I say all of that to say this. Stop ragging on things that aren't WWE. You see, for you its good enough to get good storylines, you like the soap opera feel. for someone like me, I am more of a purist. I love to see quality matches. I am tired of guys who get by soley on their gimmick. I want to see people who can do solid matches. I love the Joe / Punk trilogy and the Angle / Joe trilogy, cause they put on quality matches. WWE hasn't put on a whole lot of amazing matches. Then when they have something promising, they ruin it, I.E. MITB with Kennedy winning or the Main event and Cena winning. I agree that HBK, Edge, HHH, WGTT, and a few others are super talented wrestlers. But they aren't the focal points of the show. Instead we get storylines with Khali, or Black Lesnar, oh I meant Bobby Lashley. These these do nothing for me, and generally just sucks. Therefore I perfer watching TNA, RoH, and others.

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 Message 14 of 16 in Discussion 
From: WallStreetSent: 4/7/2007 4:07 AM
Um no, actually, I don't rag on Japan at all. I rag on you for having your character use a completly Japanese based style in a fed that's designed to be a mainstream promotion based in America. And I don't dis on everything. I enjoy my local indies, I'm sure I'd enjoy ROH if It was on TV so I could watch it frequently. Matter of fact, the only wrestling I do dis is TNA, and that's because I got tired everyone preaching to me how great they are in comparison to the WWE when they aren't even producing the same brand of entertainment.
 
Fact is, I know what I like. I don't think WWE or Vince McMahon is perfect, but you guys already have all the complaining about them down to an art so I figure I might as well stay off the bandwagon and stay away from complaining about their negatives, and just enjoy their positives. If you don't like it, don't watch it (kinda like I haven't watched TNA since last Summer, Which is why my comments about them have reduced greatly). And if you already aren't watching, then why don't you not worry about what I watch and pay attention to your own TV.
 
And The next one of you to preach to me about great pure wrestling better be backing up Amature/Olympic wrestling, because otherwise it's still two guys doing a bunch of moves to lead to a fixed finish, and the only reason those moves matter is to relay a story. If they don't do that then "pure" or not, they don't matter. But then again, this is coming from a guy who says "They're just moves, it doesn't matter" so you have no credibility in my eyes anyway.

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 Message 15 of 16 in Discussion 
From: ¤Ðªn†e¤Sent: 4/7/2007 5:56 PM
What you have to remember man is that I USED to be right beside you on the WWE bandwagon. I was a lifelong fan (15+ years) but in my eyes I saw the slow degration of the product and I started to feel like maybe I was missing something. Itwas exactly 2003 when they put the Title on Goldberg is when I walked away from WWE. That's when I realized that you are exactly right Taylor, WWE markets themselves for the "average" fan, mass market for mass appeal. I am not one of those fans anymore, I am not going to enjoy something because Vinve or his writing team say so. I look at somthing like BOTB and I shake my head b/c that air time could have been given to some younger talent to showcase them more on the big stage.
 
Again Taylor, I SERIOUSLY disagree with you that there's no "Characters" or "Stories" in TNA. There's TONS. I broke a bunch of them down for you last time we talled about this  so I won't do that again here.
 
Of course I don't think you're the average WWE *mark* Taylor, you're too smart for that. But when I hear that you enjoyed the BOTB and Umaga (r-i-p-o-f-f) and the King of the Jobbers Kane .. I shake my head .. poor Taylor .. come to the darkside .. we have cookies

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 Message 16 of 16 in Discussion 
From: WallStreetSent: 4/7/2007 6:38 PM
I do enjoy Umaga, I can't even tell you why because I really don't know... I hated Kamala, go figure ... And Kane's not bad for a big guy. He's not my favorite wrestler by any stretch, but against the right opponents he can have a good match. As for BOTB... Well now, I didn't say I was into that match... What I said was that while everything in the WWE is relativly predictable (I admit that), BOTB Was too predictable even for me, and I'm a guy who can easily dismiss seeing things coming. I wasn't a huge fan of BOTB, I found it way to easy to read... So I think you misunderstood me as no, I really didn't like the BOTB Match...
 
Unless you're refering to outside this post... Now if you mean the concept of the match... I won't go so far as to say I "liked" it... I certainly didn't mark out for it by any stretch, but I understood it's purpose. It was to generate a buzz in the mass media and to draw in those casual fans and entertainment gossip reading type fans because Donald Trump's hair has been a big deal in the Hollywood Sheets for a long time (I wouldn't know that if I didn't have roomates who watched E TV at 3AM in the past, I swear). So for me it was like "Eh." No I wasn't huge on it, but I understood why it was being done from a marketing standpoint and I didn't mind... And I will admit I'm a fan of the Mr. McMahon character so I was pretty stoked to see him involved in some capacity, although I was much more excited about the idea of seeing him and Foley in a hardcore match (I'll take the heat for wanting to see that later).
 
So yeah, I wasn't huge on BOTB match, And I was a fan of the Kane Character back in 98 when he was with Paul Barer, but on general I wouldn't call myself  a "Kane Fan" so much as I don't care one way or the other about him. But yeah, I am an Umaga mark and I have no defense for that, I'm just really into the character for some reason

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