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Topic Q & A's : What 3 Things Do Committed Relationships Offer That Aren't Found In Friendships?
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Recommend  Message 1 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004  (Original Message)Sent: 8/24/2006 9:20 AM
Okay... the kids are raised or almost-raised... They are no longer an excuse for staying together (if they ever were)... and there you are... just the 2 of you... facing the rest of your lives together... Are you still in love?  Do you still feel butterflies in your tummy when you see the mother or father of your children?
 
Or... you are alone... the children are raised or almost raised... In the quiet of your times alone, you must assess what you truly want.. dragging it up from the very deepest parts of your soul... You feel a longing... But what is it for? 
 
What are the 3 reasons you would stay in that marriage or try to find someone you could be with forever?
 
They MUST be reasons that discuss an element that is ONLY found in a committed relationship...  For instance, you can have an amazing sexual relationship and friendship without the commitments of marriage... So... why would you want to be in a committed relationship or a marriage?
 
 

I am
seeking
between
and
zip code
 

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Recommend  Message 3 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTopmechanic2000Sent: 8/25/2006 11:16 AM
Well, how bout that...I got a comment or two, who'd of thunk it....lol
I will try and convey to you 3 reasons why I would stay married. These are things I don't think about every day, perhaps because like some things in our lives, it just comes natural and we don't bother to ask ourselves why.
 
(1) I've chosen my mate for life, good, bad or inbetween and vowed that    
no matter what transpires during our life together, we'll work through it and hopefully be stronger as a unit/team/couple in the end. It's a promise I made 24 yrs. ago and I'm terrible at breaking promises.
 
(2)Do I feel the same way for her now as I did 24 yrs. ago? No I don't, it's gone to another level. She has become my wife, my friend, my lover and my confidante and my strength. I don't believe a friendship can cover all those bases.
 
(3)My mate has grown accustomed to my quirks and I to hers. To be blunt on this topic....sexually, the woman rocks my world and I her's (I hope) I can't imagine duplicating that with someone else.
 
Does this represent the 3 reason your searching for?
 
Top
 

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Recommend  Message 4 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 8/26/2006 1:49 AM
Okay Top.. but I have some questions for you Bud...
 
You are saying that you have chosen to never change your first choices if I read your first reason right... If I am not reading that right, please correct me...  Why couldn't you do that in a friendship?  For instance, why couldn't you make the choice that you would be "best friends" forever? 
 
Under number 2 of your answer, I would ask if it is the length of years you have now spent together that have cemented your union.  How would a new couple just starting out weigh those things without the benefit of 24 years together?
 
Under number 3 of your answer, if you and the good Ldy had agreed that you would be sexual friends and that you would have no other "sexual friends", why would that be different from being married lovers?
 
I am looking for those very elements that are ONLY found in marriages in this question...
 
I know many people over 40 who choose not to live together as husband and wife... They maintain entirely separate residences... yet, they have eyes only for each other, sexually and otherwise.  They DON'T share financial obligations or household duties but they DO maintain a "dating" kind of atmosphere to their relationships..
 
Can you discuss this further?
 
Thanks for your very good post BTW...
 
Luv & hugggs,
 
Silken
 
 
 

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Recommend  Message 5 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTopmechanic2000Sent: 8/26/2006 4:18 AM

Make the questions simpler and I'll do my best....lol


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Recommend  Message 6 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 8/26/2006 11:54 PM
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 7 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_路拢d每G氓m茂帽茫陇路_1Sent: 8/27/2006 1:08 AM
Number 1 of what Top wrote says that once he chose a mate (me) we agreed that no matter what transpires while married we will always work through it to make our marriage stronger..Our promise to make good on that was the day we signed our license before the eyes of god and our witnesses..Some ppl come into a marriage for other reasons, such as the mate( female or male) was great in bed, but there was no sustance there to begin with to make that marriage last..We started out as friends and went to the next level, we both understood the ramafactions of going into  marriage as we seen it before with our other friends who couldn't work at their marriages and left each other only after a few years..We "BOTH" agreed that to make our marriage work we needed commitment and to become a unit/team ya have to really work at it to make it last, no matter what...Also in a good marriage you have to compromise and over look the inane, which alot of newly married couples refuse to accept and thus out the window that marriage goes after 1-2-3 years time...
Number 2, my advice to all the newly married couples is to take advise from other married couples that have made the 20-25 year mark and learn from them..Not saying that everything they'll hear they'll agree with but maybe there is a little bit they will see and try out in their marriage..My grandparents were blessed with 65 yrs of marriage and my Gr-grandparents were married for 75 yrs..To me.. personally I don't think it has anything to do with their generation like many ppl say..It's, they worked as a unit and compromised together on the petty issues that may arise to overcome them..
I took what I learned from these great marriages and implemented some of it into my own. You have to if you want to make it last...Marriage is 50/50
Number 3..OK, not to sure what you are getting at with this one...lol
Before we got married we were lovers, we went into our marriage as monogamous married lovers and have never deviated from that in our 24 yrs of marriage..I think if ya want to play/swing or what have you to spice up ur sex lives in the marriage then thats up to you and ur partner...Good luck to anyone that does it...Be forwarned though that this could back fire on you if "YOU" do not have a Good marriage...
 
Last but not Least:
Father in law was married for 28 yrs to a wonderful lady but finances was the downfall of that marriage...But he was a happy man and never changed his attitude..
He  moved in with a single woman around his own age and they lived together for a long time before he married her...There's that old saying "jumping from the pan into the fire" comes to mind with this marriage.. His attitude went from good to really bad and nobody in our family wanted to around him or her for that matter...she passes away..
He meets a wonderful lady and they strike up a friendship..He has his place and she has her's...she is a widower...But just being with this woman his attitude changes to being a great caring grandfather and father/fatherin law...They live together at her place for awhile and then she comes and lives out at his place...They travel and love to do everything together...when asked why not marry again to this woman. He says why?
I have my own place if things get bad and she has hers'...But he loves her and loves to be with her...He is older and much more set in his ways as she is, and they like it that way..When he got ill, he sold his place and moved in with her at her urging..He passed away with the love of her and our family in his bed at her home..He was with her for 10 yrs.. and No.. the dating kind of thing wasn't there at the end..she was his lover and his companion..
Hope that this helps with your questions...
 
LdyGamina
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Recommend  Message 8 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname_路拢d每G氓m茂帽茫陇路_1Sent: 8/27/2006 1:54 AM
Ok..Now it's my turn to respond to this topic..
Ya.. I know what ur thinking.."but u already repsonded?" No I resonded back to what Silken asked Top with my 2 cents...lol
So now I'm replying to what Silken asked in the first question box...
My children are grown and yup...(looks around)
still together..Hell ya still in love with my guy..even more now...it's called acceptance which is one of the 6 stages in a committed marriage..but I'll get to that one later...lol
Do I still get butterflies when I see him...hmmmm..
the butterflies are there but not as fluttery as they were when we were first married, but they do go crazy when we get intimate...24 yrs what do ya expect....lol
Now Silken I will give more than 3 elements of a committed marriage so here they are: Hope ur all ready for them...hehe

The Stages of Committed Relationships

When attempting to create a loving, healthy intimate relationship, it is important to have an accurate roadmap for the journey.   Most of our culture's roadmaps have emphasized fantasy, illusion and denial, and those who follow those maps will tend to have unhappy, conflict-ridden relationships.   What follows is a reality-based roadmap which comes from research into couples' actual experiences of being in long-term relationships. 

While theorists disagree on the exact name and number of the stages couples progress through, there is a general consensus that couples go through some version of the following stages. Not everyone goes through all the stages and some couples may go through them in a different sequence, but for most couples this is the normative experience in a long-term committed relationship.

1. ROMANTIC LOVE

This is the love that Hollywood loves to promote as the only kind of love.  Romantic love is wonderful, easy, and effortless.   It is very spontaneous and alive. The feelings and perceptions that go through both people are that we are one; we are the same. You are perfect. I can give and receive love with little or no effort required. There is a tremendous emphasis on maximizing similarities and minimizing differences. There is a belief and expectation that you will provide most or all of my wants, needs, desires. There is generally a high degree of passion and feelings and expressions of romance come easily and often. The partners think about each other constantly, and make much eye contact and are very affectionate when they are together. Many people experience this as living in a state of near-constant bliss and infatuation. There is a belief that these feelings and experiences will go on forever, that 'we will never disagree on anything', and that somehow fate or forces larger than themselves have brought them together.

This stage generally lasts from six months to two years, and is the SHORTEST stage of any of the stages of long-term committed relationships.

2. ADJUSTING TO REALITY

Ah, reality. Inevitably, predictably, eventually, reality rears its (ugly?) head and the bubble bursts on the Romantic stage. Sometimes it is a slow leak, other times a sudden and complete blowout. But either way, something happens which causes a minor or major conflict in the new relationship. Sometimes the trigger is living together and having to share household chores and experiencing personal habits up close. Sometimes it is an act of deception which is discovered. Sometimes it is planning a wedding, buying a house, or sharing finances. Whatever the cause, after the conflict occurs, it becomes impossible to continue the fantasy that this person and this relationship are immune from struggle, from effort, from reality. Differences which were previously obscured suddenly become visible. Conflicts, anxieties, disappointment and hurt replace the effortless flow of the Romantic stage. There is a sense that this person is not living up your hopes and dreams, and there is an accompanying loss of closeness. Gradually each person is forced to relinquish some of their most cherished romantic fantasies, or to cling to them desperately in a state of denial.

In this stage, it is common to feel as if someone or something or even Life itself has cheated you or robbed you of something precious, almost like a stage of grieving the loss of something innocent and wonderful. There is a desire to be close again but confusion as how to create that. It is the first time that fears of intimacy begin to arise.  Suddenly the couple must learn how to deal with very real differences, how to deal with conflict, and how to integrate being an independent person as well as someone in an intimate relationship.

In short, Adjusting to Reality is the stage where the Real Relationship begins.   

3. THE POWER STRUGGLE

As the disillusionment of the Adjusting to Reality stage deepens, the couple tends to have more disagreements. Minor issues blow up into larger arguments. Yelling appears for the first time, if it ever will. Both partners dig in their heels and defend their positions on issues fiercely. Each person digs in their heels and protects their turf. This once-tender effortless loving relationship has become a battleground and evolved into a daily Power Struggle. This is a typical stage in the development of a long-term committed relationship.

For the first time in the relationship, there are occasional or frequent thoughts of leaving the relationship. This person who only recently appeared to be the embodiment of pure love and joy in your eyes suddenly seems self-centered and not to be trusted. Doubts arise as to whether the other person really loves you. There are consistent feelings of ambivalence and anger. Blaming and accusing becomes the most common form of interaction. Each partner is afraid of giving in, and wants the other to change. This is where deep resentments begin to form, which if left unchecked, become the cancer that eventually eats away at all the love and tenderness that has come before. Sarcasm and hostility enter into daily conversations.

This does not have to be the end of the relationship. The tasks for the couple here are to develop problem-solving, conflict resolution and negotiating skills. The conflicts will clearly not go away on their own. Each person much learn to listen respectfully to their partner's position, even if they don't agree with it. They must learn to support their partner's own growth, even if they feel it compromises their own. They may see the origins of the patterns of their conflicts (and their dysfunctional ways of resolving them) in their family of origin.                                        

4. RE-EVALUATION

The Power Struggle is physically and emotionally draining, and if the couple can survive, they move into the next stage, of a conscious Re-Evaluation of the relationship. Whereas the original commitment one makes is typically based on projections of fantasy, this Re-Evaluation takes into account the reality and fears and defenses of each person. Do I really want to stay with this person?   You know who this person is now, you know their limitations, and you know the range of which they are capable of improving or getting better. Knowing all that, do you still want to stay? That is the question that gets answered during this stage.

Both people tend to turn outward to resolve their issues, instead of toward each other. As a result, fears of abandonment come up strongly here. Can I make by myself? Am I really okay the way I am? Will anyone else find me attractive or appealing?

Both people emotionally (and sometimes physically) disengage and withdraw during this stage, which makes it the stage in which separation, divorce and/or an affair are most likely to occur. Feelings of resentment are less intense in this stage, as the affect in the relationship is likely to be very flat and empty. The sexual relationship sporadic at best and more likely non-existent. Things are ripe for an affair to burst on the scene, and often a person in this stage will begin to confide in someone of the opposite sex. This confidante will take on more and more importance in the person's life, due to their neediness and vulnerability, and they will often get emotionally very involved without consciously realizing it. At this point even the slightest affection is like throwing a match in the forest on a hot summer day, and a passionate, intense affair will begin.

The danger is that when an affair begins at this stage, it is almost impossible for the relationship to recover. The primary relationship has too little going for it in the way of gratification on either side, and the inevitable comparisons between the affair and the relationship seem like night and day.

A separation can be useful here to help each person gain perspective, due that too can lead to the demise of the relationship if outside gratifications seem to dwarf the emptiness of the relationship.

The task for each person here is to stay present and honor their commitment, develop individually and be able to see their partner as a separate person. This is the only way the relationship can survive and move into the next stage.

5. RECONCILIATION

In this stage, after the distance of the Re-evaluation, if the relationship has survived, there is a re-awakening of interest in getting closer and connecting again. Knowing all that they know, coming from reality and not fantasy, there is a decision to have the willingness to try once again. There is an open acceptance of the conflicts and differences in the relationship, but they are approached with a different attitude: they are used as opportunities for learning about oneself and the other person. They are catalysts for growth and change. There is a recognition that the differences are real and won't go away, and that neither person can really change the other. Thus begins a process of struggling to create an honest, genuine intimate relationship. The people connect again and the relationship again begins to produce ongoing satisfaction for both partners.

In this stage there is also a deeper sense of taking responsibility for one's part in conflict and in lack of satisfaction. Each person may recognize the link between what they learned as children in their families of origin and how they approach intimate relationships. They own their distortions and projections onto their partners. They begin to see their partner as they see themselves, as a somewhat flawed yet decent person who is making a sincere effort to love and be close and still take care of their own needs.

There is a deeper acceptance in this stage that any relationship cannot and will not save you in any sense. You still have your own individual needs and issues and they does not go away just because you are in a relationship. But the part of your life that can be nurtured and shared in a loving, accepting relationship is also real and in this stage each person looks to the other for that connection. The war is over, the conflicts are accepted, and there is a sincere desire to learn how to work through the issues to a satisfying resolution.

6. ACCEPTANCE

The final stage in a committed relationship, which researchers estimate less than 5% of couples ever reach, is one of complete Acceptance. There is an integration of the need of the self and the needs of the relationship. Each person takes responsibility for their own needs, for their own individual lives, and also for providing support for their partner. A high level of warmth is present. The couple is able to maintain a balance between autonomy and union. Conflicts still arise on occasion, but as a result of the struggles of the previous stage, the couple has figured out how to resolve most conflicts relatively quickly. Resentments are few. There are few surprises: these are people who know one another and know what to expect. They accept what they are getting, with no denial or fantasy involved. They work together as a team to stay connected and also maintain their own identities.

These are the six stages that most couples go through during a long-term committed relationship. While not every couple goes through every stage or in that exact sequence, nonetheless this roadmap, based on the research on actual couples' experiences of intimate relationship, still provides the best roadmap we have available for charting the most likely path of an long-term committed relationship. And if we have a roadmap, we can chart the healthiest and least disruptive path to the goal of a fulfilling, intimate relationship.

 

Not to burst anyone's bubble here with all this, but as you read you can see what stage most marriages dissolve at.. I think it is very important that anyone thinking of getting married read this as it is a good look at what you and ur partner has to do to make a marriage work in today's society..Divorce is just to easy to get now in this day and age..If you can impliment anything from this into your lives while married then you'll be better for it..
Well that's all from the Peanut Gallery..

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Recommend  Message 9 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyinKansas2Sent: 8/29/2006 12:01 AM
 A committed relationship or marriage offers just that......COMMITMENT.  You can have lots of great relationships with all kinds of wonderful elements but without commitment.
 
   To stay with someone FOREVER really takes a boat load of commitment.  I cant think of any type of relationship that would work LONG term without that one thing.
 
But here are 3 things my husband and I came up with that would keep people in a committed relationship vs. any other kinds.
 
1. Security/Stability-after many years of being with the same person there is a sense of knowing each other in a way only time can give you. You have built a life based on trust and honesty with each other.
 
2. Financial -  when you are with someone for a number of years you have built a financial nest egg together.  Whether it be your home or bank accounts you have built it together and it took you both of you.  There is a desire to enjoy your life from a financial stand  point that requires BOTH of you together to achieve.
 
3. True Love- this one is pretty obvious.  There are all kinds and depths of love and everyones defintions will be different but I personally feel that a TRUE LOVE is one you could only feel for that one person.  It will be unlike any you have had before and you just know you would never find it with someone else. 
 
And that folks is my take on this rather confusing subject....but sure made me ponder and think!
 

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Recommend  Message 10 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 8/29/2006 7:35 AM
Okay... this is proving to be a most interesting thread... but let me say this only once..
 
The questions being posed in this forum are questions that are not intended in any way to castigate anyone's marriages.. nor to yay or nay EITHER side of the options presented... The questions are designed with the HOPE of making us all THINK (as Lady indicates it did for her...) about the WHY'S of what we do.. To help us remember WHY in some cases... or to help us figure out WHY in other cases... This is such a critically important part of our having a forum of this nature that I want to repeat this over and over and over BUT, I hope it is only necessary to say it once... The topics are not intended as personal slights nor judgments toward anyone's choices in life!
 
The question... as posed.. is NOT, "why don't you get the hell outta that marriage?" or "why would you even THINK of marrying him/her?"... The question is, "what do YOU see as being the difference between a committed love that two people share without marriage as opposed to the committed love two people share within marriage?"
 
And now... I want to offer my own thoughts to this insightful mix... while leaving THIS post to stand in its own light...
 
Luv 'n hugggs,
 
Silken
 
 
 

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Recommend  Message 11 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 8/29/2006 8:05 AM
Our married people are answering the question of why they feel marriage is different from a committed relationship as follows (and I do hope I properly encapsulate the views expressed... God help me... lol):
 
1.  I made a choice to be married for life before I got married and I am honouring that;
 
2.  By being married to my partner, our relationship went to a new level of depth between us that it wouldn't have gone to had we stayed living apart... even if we were committed to one another in every way;
 
3.  We have grown accustomed to each other and each other's quirks.
 
4.   The agreement to be committed was made by BOTH people and became more because of it;
 
5.  Other people have had very long marriages and been happy;
 
6.  We don't play with the areas that could irreparably damage our relationship;
 
7.  We have a sense of security and comfort in the knowledge we have gained from each other through the years;
 
8.  We are both entitled to share the financial perks of our hard work through the years; and
 
9.  We don't feel that we could feel the same way about anyone else as we do about one another and this has come from our marriage...
 
If you look through this list of reasons to stay in a marriage or to get married, the question still remains as to whether or not, you could not have all of these things living separate and apart?  In other words, is it the marital vows and the perceptions around the marital vows that create a deeper level of intimacy than two people might know without the vows?  Is it the feelings that each person has that grow over time?  Is it too easy for one or the other to run from the non-married partnership and should people be restrained from easily turfing their partner on a whim they might regret later?
 
Personally, I have been in a 16 year marriage with a full sense of commitment and I have been in long term relationships...  My commitment to my L.T.R. partners has been NO less without the vows of marriage than it was toward either of my actual husbands.  And for me, if there came a time when either my partner or myself was unhappy, I would not want them (or me) to simply stay because of some sense of obligation or indebtedness to me.  I would not want a promise they made to me at a far younger age and long before they knew what changes they themselves would make through the years, to be the singular reason they stayed... I believe that if love has died or gone sideways for either partner, life is too short to remain in a loveless marriage... or one that is leaving either of them frustrated and lonely...
 
IF two people have come through the years of trial together and still FEEL the love for each other.. still feel happiness and contentment, then by all means... stay and God bless... But IF we assign more importance to the marital vows than we do to feeling loved, happy and contented in life, then I think we are perhaps, making a mistake... Life is too short to feel forced or obligated to remain unhappy and unfulfilled.
 
In short, I don't see any reason why people who are living separate and apart or who are even shy of the marriage route, cannot have an equally committed relationship if both hearts are determined to remain together through life... After all, if both hearts are NOT determined to do so, who would want to stay with someone who didn't really want to be with them?
 
That's my 2 cents... and I would love to hear from some of our singles on this topic... Thank you to our married folk for sharing some of their views, wisdom and love for one another with us!!!
 
Silken
 
 

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Recommend  Message 12 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTopmechanic2000Sent: 8/29/2006 10:32 AM
Well, after reading ALL the quotes/post/comments, I have concluded it all boils down to this........be it a marriage or long term relationship...it all depends on the people involved and how they feel. It's just that simple...no rules , regulations or standards.

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Recommend  Message 13 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCocopuff10001Sent: 8/29/2006 1:17 PM
I have to say I agree with pieces of what many of said, but I like the way Silken summed it up.  I wonder if the perception and tradition that surrounds marriage is what makes people want to do it.  It's supposed to be the ultimate, the thing that one strives for in a relationship, and to be honest....I'm just not seeing it.  I have only been married once, and I'm not certain that I will ever go that route again, but the other LTR I have enjoyed have been satisfying and I was still committed.  Like Top says, it comes down to the people involved and the limits that are set in the relationship, not a piece of paper that says it's legal.  That paper really means nothing if both people are not committed to the relationship. 
coco

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Recommend  Message 14 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname搂薪褍邪谢谢Sent: 8/29/2006 5:01 PM
I have really toyed with this question in my mind... I have warped it, shaped it, molded it, mutilated it, annihalated it, and have still not fully come to any conclusions with it, but, I think it's because like everything, it is assumes many different forms to many different people.
All of our answers are dependant on what we have encountered through out our relationship filled lives. Whether it is to have had long, prosperous relationships, or to have a series of short, meaningful realtionships, or to have had a mixture of the 2. I think, that with this question, there really is no right answer, hence why it is an opinion and not a quiz.
Alot of very valid points have been brought up, alot of good thinkin' stuff... we have strayed from the original question tho. That being, why be married, if you can get it all in a LTR?
I cannot fully answer this question because my situation is not comparable with others'. That being said, in alot of ways, Rat and I need to be married, we want to be married, and we love eachother enough to be married. Would it change 'us'? probably not. Would it change our sex life? probably not. Would  it change who we are as individuals? probably not. What it would change tho, is the fact that we would be promising to love, be monogamous, be together indefinately, and to cherish each moment we had together, in the face of God. We would be binding ourselves in a legal way, we would be binding ourselves in a spiritual way. That is a perk in and of itself.
On the other hand, if we remained in a simple long term relationship, never being married, and never being concerned about any legal ramifications, nothing would change either. We love eachother, we can spend days on end together (now if none of you have ever tried that, it's really hard), we enjoy eachothers company, and we are content with what the other does. A legal piece of paper is just that, a piece of paper. It can either bind you or hang you.
If I had it to do all over again, I would never think of being married. I would be content being in a simple long term relationship, I would be content in knowing that I could get every emotional and mental and physical thing that a marriage could offer, without being legally or God bound. It's just that simple folks.
People can get the love, the sex, the commitment, the loyalty, the respect and every other aspect by not being married. Marriage brings it another step, and binds it.
Just my opinion, from the slanted side of the fence.

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Recommend  Message 15 of 17 in Discussion 
From: bellaSent: 10/30/2006 3:26 AM
I have read everyones posts on this subject and am still not sure I know what the question is but here goes.
I have been married and been in a few long term relationships and all have not worked for one reason or another.  With everything I have been through, the last relationship really opened my eyes and made me take a good hard look as to why I wasn't happy.  After many, many sleepless nights of thinking and playing back my life  over and over again I realized I wasn't ever in love.
Go figure!  I was so afraid of being hurt, I always held back.  What I think I would want in a relationship that could withstand time is:
Unconditional Love, accept them for who they are and don' t try to change them.
Trust & honesty
Give  more than you take, a relationship should be 60/40
Give 60, take 40 that way there will always be an overlap.
 

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Recommend  Message 16 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyinKansas2Sent: 10/31/2006 2:58 AM
Bella......I love that 60/40!  What a wonderful way to put it! 

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Recommend  Message 17 of 17 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameHillbilly_BoSent: 11/1/2006 9:26 AM
Hmmmm,,,,5 years the first time, 15 years the second time,,,,I would
rather be committed (literally) before I jumped back into a marriage
committment

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