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Opinion Forum : Opinion, July 1/06: Could you stay with a lover who criticized your body?
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Recommend  Message 1 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004  (Original Message)Sent: 7/1/2006 9:33 AM

 

THIS WEEK'S QUESTION: 

You are in a long-term relationship with someone you love and going through a tense time.  During an argument, your lover tells you that he or she considers your body ugly or undesirable.  When the argument dies down, your lover wants to make love.  Do you want to?  Will you?  Can you stay?  Will you leave?  Is that enough to make you end the relationship?  Could you just forgive and go on as usual?  What are your thoughts?

 

 


I am
seeking
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zip code
 

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Recommend  Message 2 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTopmechanic2000Sent: 7/2/2006 4:34 PM
Well, as you indicated, a tough time is being experienced and we all know, when an argument breaks out, during this time, we often try to come up with the nastiest things to say to "one up" our significant other. Even going as far as digging up past incidents. It seems when this takes place, considerations for feelings go out the window, it's all about.."how can I really hurt you" and win this argument. We all know that it's really a lose lose deal in the end. Without beating this subject up anymore I'll answer the questions.
Yes I do..yes I wll..and yes I can. No I won't leave and no it is not enough to end the relationship. Yes, I would forgive and go on as usual. Besides, the best part of an argument is making up isn't it? 
These are my own opinions and thoughts and I answered drawing from personal experience. Lord knows Ldy and I have strapped on the armour and gone to war more than a couple of times in the past 24 years, but when the smoke clears, we're still together. Things get said, sometimes quite nasty, but we've been together long enough to know that a nasty comment is just a "dud" bit of ammo, it comes out but has no lasting effect.
We liken arguments to a form of communications, not the healthiest, but it keeps the lines open.

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Recommend  Message 3 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 7/2/2006 8:56 PM
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us on this issue Top... 

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Recommend  Message 4 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 7/2/2006 11:09 PM

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Recommend  Message 5 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCocopuff10001Sent: 7/3/2006 1:43 PM
Silken,
I would like to say that I might disregard it as something nasty said during the heat of an argument, but I know I wouldn't forget it.  First of all, your significant other DOES know how to hurt you, and picking on your looks and your body is about as mean as it gets.  Most of us have significant insecurities about the way we look, and when someone picks on that insecurity and uses it to hurt us, it's not easily forgotten.  There would have to be some strong reassurances offered after that to put things back on track.  I know two people who have shared this exact thing with me, the first was female, and her husband cheated on her and in the midst of some serious discussion regarding his reasons why, her weight came up in the conversation.  They have remained together, but she has never, NEVER, forgotten those words and is deeply affected by them even today.  Even though she has lost weight, the thought that someone that she loved would comment on her body that way devastated her (especially since he is overweight too and she would never have said anything to him). 
 
The other was a male friend, and again heavier now than he was when he married, and during an argument his wife told him  to get off his fat a$$ and do some housework once in a while.  Well, the problem is this, he does a lot of helping out around the house and that comment had no merit except for what it was meant to be....something to hurt him and get a rise out of him.  And even though he decided to let it go, he has not forgotten it.  It hurts when people don't think we are "good enough" just the way we are, and for those of us who would NEVER dream of saying something like that it is simply devastating and impossible to comprehend how someone could say such an unkind thing. 
 
Oh, I know that some people have preferences on what they consider "attractive" but why oh why say it out loud to someone.  Someone made a comment to me once, someone I was dating, that boiled down to him being suprised that I was so comfortable with my body.  How did I interpret that???  That he wasn't and couldn't understand why I would be.  It's the only one I have so why waste time being upset about it?  Would I like to change it, sure, but there are things that will never change, like the scars from surgery, or the stretch marks from pregnancy, or the fact that time and gravity make things shift and move in southern direction, but it's still mine and if someone can't appreciate me for me, then to heck with them.  As for your question, make love right after the statement was made, Oh I think not.... as I said, you don't go there in an argument without some damage control and apologies being offered after the fact.  I can take just about anything, being called names, or better yet just a lot of yelling and even some cussing during an argument, but attacking my body......that's just a no-no.  And what about the lingering question after the fact....Did the other person mean it and are they thinking it every time they look at me?  When you say damaging words, don't be suprised at the damage. 
 
Just my humble opinion, and from the length of my response I would say you may have touched a little nerve here.  Hope I didn't offend anyone.
coco

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Recommend  Message 6 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 7/4/2006 12:04 AM
First lemme say... you guys are amazing!!!  Such wisdom flowing here is SUCH  a blessing to this community!!!
 
Top points out that there are certain realities of being in a long-term relationship... such as the acceptance of the fact that occasionally, the best of couples is going to have an argument and go for one upmanship.. There will be words that hurt said and forgiveness required... A given in any relationship...
 
Coco points out that there are lines of decency that can cause terrible anguish to someone if they're crossed and some things just leave horrible wounds and scars.  There is no question that a partner telling his partner that they see their partner's body as "ugly", is going to force the "ugly" person to be inhibited about taking their clothes off the next time around... or maybe ALL of the next times around...
 
I write to acknowledge your posts and to thank you for them enormously!!!  I will respond again after more people have had a chance to give us their views and thoughts...
 
(And no Coco.. you did not offend!  As always, your views are hugely wise and a blessing to hearts that ache... Thank you my friend!)
 
I look forward to reading more about this...
 
Luv & hugggs,
 
Silken
 

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Recommend  Message 7 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTopmechanic2000Sent: 7/4/2006 6:38 AM
No offense taken here either Coco. You brought up very good and valid points. That's the wonderful thing about opinions....no one's is wrong or unappreciated.

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Recommend  Message 8 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCocopuff10001Sent: 7/4/2006 7:00 PM
You are absolutely right Top, and you sound like a very intelligent and forgiving man.  I have the utmost respect for your opinions.

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Recommend  Message 9 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTheOnlySilkenFireSent: 7/6/2006 1:22 PM

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Recommend  Message 10 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyinKansas2Sent: 7/7/2006 2:55 AM
Ok......for what it is worth here are my two 1/2 cents worth.......
 
   I guess I must be getting old and cranky because when I first read this my initial gut reaction was HELL NO to the first 3 questions and  HELL YES to the next 2 which leaves the final 2 pretty well answered I suppose.
 
   But.......after thinking on this for a couple of days and trying put this into a "real" situation here is what I have come up with.
 
   First off IF and that is a HUGE IF this was the first time an insult of this nature was thrown around during a heated argument I would probably be able to forgive the comment, with time.  It would NOT be an easy feat, but if this were a true and committed relationship forgivness would come eventually.  
   Having said that there would simply be no way I would make love afterwards.  Those are words that were simply thrown out to do the maximum damage and inflict the most pain and simply cannot be overlooked by me.  I most definitly would not feel like making love with someone who just hurt me in such a personal manner that was obviously intentional.
   As for staying, yes I could say assuming again this is the first time such a statement was made to me. 
    I know we all say things we don't really mean when we are in the heat of an arguement.  I am as guilty as anyone.  But at some point we all grow up ( hopefully) and leave comments like that years behind us.  We might get pretty nasty with each other but I would hope never to this extent.  Believe me, being married more than a time or 2 has taught me the fine art of marital fighting, and being someone who NEVER forgets a wrong I am quite confident I could inflict a major amount of pain if I truly wanted to.  But somewhere along this path I call life I learned that once those words fly outta my mouth I can't grab em back and unsay them.  They are out there forever, never to be forgotten.  So I try to be careful.
 
    Now let me for the record make one thing very clear here.  IF this type of statement were on going, par for the course in any arguments, even if it varied in the theme, but the intention and simple cruelty were always there I would be SO GONE SO FAST that fool would wonder if I was ever really there!  NO ONE should ever be treated like that and then expect it to just be forgotten and forgiven only to have it happen again and again.  For me.........do it once and I can get past it......repeat that mistake and it will be the last time you make it with me.
  Life is just too short to be in a relationship with someone who would think so little of you that they must beat you down just so they can pick you up again and again. 
 
   And that my dear friends is this stubborn set in her ways opinionated woman's view on this subject. 

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Recommend  Message 11 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamen99girlSent: 7/7/2006 4:09 PM
Wow, dejavu.
 
This HAS happened to me.
 
I will never forget what was said.  I would have rather had the bruises than the memory.  NO I am not with the person anymore.  But everytime that I see that person - I remember what was said and I feel ugly.

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Recommend  Message 12 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCocopuff10001Sent: 7/8/2006 1:26 AM
That's exactly my point n99girl!!!  I understand Tops point of view, and I suspect that if you have a rock solid marriage it can withstand almost anything, but some of us have felt the lasting damage of some very unkind words that attacked us at our very core and it's not forgotten easily.  And what makes it even worse is when people use that arsenol against us when we would never even think of putting that weapon in the lineup.  For example, in an argument, someone could tell me I'm being unreasonable, unfair, or a downright bitc*.  I would not be bothered by that, but engage on a personal attack regarding my body or the way I look and I would likely be able to forget the ugly sentiments that had been expressed.  I guess in my heart of hearts I still believe that if someone really loved and cherished me they wouldn't attack me in that way.  And n99girl, you are beautiful.  I think it's unfortunate that someone was so uncaring that they said something to make you doubt that for even an instant.  Never believe anything less than that your beauty radiates from within and from without. 

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Recommend  Message 13 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyinKansas2Sent: 7/8/2006 1:36 AM
Beautifully said Coco!!!!!

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Recommend  Message 14 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 7/9/2006 8:28 PM
Wow....  I couldn't say this any better than Coco and Lady have...
 
Insults and criticism about one's body, looks, intelligence, personality and sexuality are commonly thought of as "dirty-fighting" or "hitting below the belt" in couple's communication.  Is it a form of abuse?  The experts say "yes it is"... Is it to be expected by everyone when they enter a relationship?  I dunno... In my years as a divorce paralegal, I have come to understand that marital rage is a form of rage like no other... I got so that I preferred to work in criminal law because at least the criminals understood that what they had done was against the law... Married people don't seem to have that kind of cognitive skill and they will do things out of marital rage that they would never think to do to anyone else...
 
As I've grown older, I have also seen where the younger generations commonly cuss each other out (even in day to day conversations) and think nothing of it.  Where I once objected to guys calling me things like "my old lady", now guys will call a woman "my bit*h"...  !  The effect of rap music and the "don't care"isms of today...
 
I think that the coming together of 2 strangers in this world in a love relationship is ideally supposed to be a beautiful event where both people are supposed to enjoy an elevated status in the other person's eyes... I think if they have gained intimate knowledge of their partner, it is completely foul for them to use that to gain leverage in an argument... I think that once the pillowcase full of feathers (words) have been thrown into the wind, they can never be re-collected and they leave lasting wounds in the spirit of whoever has born the insults...
 
For me, in a relationship, my whole attraction to my partner is not just based on the good things about him but in his ability to see the good things about me... When he goes for the jugular, at that point I realize that he is not with me for who I am but for what I can give him... and that is very painful information about "us"...
 
Are personal insults "leave your mate" material?  Maybe not... but they are certainly warning signs that the person who is fighting dirty is unable to keep his or her grip on the normal resolution to a problem without going for power and control.  The love that is supposed to be there, is not... It's easy to be all warm and gushy to one's partner when there's lots of money and life is going great but the true measure of a loving relationship is only determined by whether or not that love remains fully operative during the bad times... If it doesn't, well... there isn't much to separate the love relationship from our relationships in the rest of the world where we know we could get complete strangers to insult us... At the point where an argument descends into that lowest of levels, the "special" feelings die an anguishing death and all that is left are 2 strangers pissing on each other's spirits... I could not expose myself to more hurt at the end of such a devastation and would not...
 
Thank you all for contributing to this forum as you have...
 
Luv & hugggs,
 
Silken
 
 
 

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Recommend  Message 15 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameratsolosmsnSent: 9/10/2006 11:48 PM
Alright!  my turn.  (Shyann just showed me where this board was...  AGAIN)
 
so anyway, let me dispense;
 
 
Long term relationship - the other person knows the ins and outs of you, your insecurities and how to hit you and not leave a mark (emotionally).  Sure, there's apt to be tiffs and tufts and even the occassional ouch, but for someone to habitually engage the ego amunition...  Its an attack on the person rather than dumb things the person has done.  I would begin to question what he or she loved about me.  Now I've got a bigger ego than most and have done more than my share of stupid things, but if a sig began to call me down about my appearance it would wear thin, fast.  Shit man, this is what i present to the world, i know the good and bad and i dont need to be continually brought down by the bad.  particularly from someone i love and is supposed to love me.  If that same sig called me down about my stupidity i could laugh it off, again to a degree.  To close i may add that any comments against someones body...  wtf grade are we in?  send him/her/it back to grade four.  word out.

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