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God and Jesus : If you have seen me
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 Message 1 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 6/3/2007 10:53 PM

If you have seen me�?/P>

The following Scripture has been so mangled and twisted, trying to prove a false doctrine. But remember that all Scripture must agree with all other Scripture. If you think otherwise, you have something wrong. You are the wrong one, not Scripture.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. (Now did Jesus say here, I am God? No, he did not. He said you believe in God, so believe also in me. That is not saying I am God. The Father sent the Son to be the saviour of the world. The Father did not send the Father, he sent the Son. He said if you believe not this, you call God a lie, because you did not believe the record God gave of his (self?) no. of his Son.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Verse 6, Jesus said no man comes unto the Father, but by me. Now is that saying I am the Father? No. He is saying I am the only way you have to get to the Father. There is no other way, but by me. There is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved, but the Name of Jesus.

Verse 7. If ye had know me, ye should have known my Father also. Why? Because Jesus showed us the way of God. He did only what the father told him to do. He said only what God the Father, gave him to say. He never deviated once from doing the will of God, his Father. So then, everything Jesus did was revealing the Father to the world.

He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Now the false teachers suppose that Jesus was saying I am the Father and that is why and how if you see me, you also see the Father. But is that really what Jesus was saying? Of course not. It could not be, because it crosses all other Scriptures on this subject. If Jesus is the Father why would he even be saying, My Father? Does one go around calling themselves, My Father or My Mother, and be speaking about themselves? Of course not. And surely we must give Jesus credit to being as sensible and intelligent as we are?

In verse ten Jesus told them what he meant. I am in my Father and He is in me. His words or thoughts are in my heart and mind. I have so much of my Father’s thoughts, or words in me, that I think exactly like Him. I act just like Him. Everything I do and say is what My Father does and says, so that if you see me, you are seeing him. He is in me. He did not say I am the Father.

Anytime a person acts just like another person, thinks just like another person, and does not deviate from this pattern, you could say if you see this one you also see that one. For you see this one in that one. I have heard people say of a certain wife, she is just like her husband. If you see her, you see him. That is how this is meant. If there are identical twins, and you have never seen one of them, but you know the other one. And they act just alike. Someone could say to you, if you see this one you see that one, for they are just alike. This is common among people who act just alike. One child can be so much like a parent, that people will say if you see him, you see her. That is exactly what Jesus was saying here. He was saying what he had already told them. I say only what my Father says and do only what he shows me that he does. So then if I wish to see the Father, all I need to do is look at his son, for they are just alike.

Yet an entire false church sprang up from someone misinterpreting this Scripture. It is time people studied the Word and come back to real truth. Get away from these foolish doctrines of men. Jesus is not his own Father. He never claimed to be God in any Scripture. He never claimed to be God, the Father. He always spoke of My Father, as another being. He said, I am not alone, for my father is WITH ME. Wouldn’t I be silly to say I am not alone for myself is with me? That is what the Jesus-only doctrine tries to do to Jesus.

1Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

1co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

1co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

1co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 1co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

1co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

1co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

As the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many are one body, so also is Christ.

2Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Christ, is the image of God. Get that? Christ is the image of God, so if you see Christ, you see God. If someone is the image of another person, then if you see one, you see the other, even though they are not the same person. If you see how this one is, you see how that one is also. If you see how Christ is, then you see how His Father, God, is, for He is his image. So if you see the kingdom of Christ, you see how the kingdom of God is. One body made up of many members. This is the image. This is how Christ is. 1Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

As the body is one, made up of many members SO IS CHRIST, WHO IS THE IMAGE OF GOD. So if you see Christ, you see God. Not that Christ is God, but that he is his image.

Ro 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

Ro 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

So as this one body of Christ is made up of many members, and this Christ is the image of God, you see God by looking at this Christ. If they are identical, or one is the image of the other, then all you must see is one of them to know how the other one is. Why then has the entire church world missed this glorious truth? Why have they made up so many false doctrines about who Jesus is, who God is and how the kingdom is? Because they have not the anointing teaching them. They listen to doctrines of devils.

So Jesus was asking Thomas, why are you insinuating that I have not revealed the Father in all that I do and say? He was saying I have already shown you the Father. I have already revealed exactly what the Father is like. I have given you all his words, so that you should have already understood and SEEN, or understood, the Father. Seeing in understanding. The eyes of your UNDERSTANDING being enlightened. Jesus had already enlightened their understanding, or they should have understood. That is what Jesus was telling them in John 14, If you have seen, or understood me, you have seen the Father, for I do always the things which please my Father. He did not say, I am one or I am two, or God is three. So why has the ‘church�?taught this false stuff? Jesus never once said God is 1, or 2, or 3 members.

Now for confirmation:

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Now if that is not plain enough for even the stupidest, you are blind, willfully. The Father is in Jesus, Jesus is in the Father, they are both in us, that we all may be ONE. So when you see Christ, a kingdom of many members, you see God, also a kingdom of many members. So we are all of this one kingdom. Else you are not made perfect. We are made perfect in ONE. If you are not in this ONE, you are not in the kingdom, and you are not perfect. Be ye perfect as Your Father in Heaven is perfect.

By: Jo Smith

June 3, 2007



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Reply
 Message 2 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134Sent: 6/4/2007 12:34 AM
Freeborn,
It is good that you got on this subject. I have almost pulled my hair out, in trying to understand the Oneness doctrine. Jesus said the FATHER was greater than HIM. Now if Jesus was the Father, Jesus would be greater than Himself. It is like they deny the FATHER and everthing that the Father does, they ignore. Or something like that. I do not understand why they can not see that. And that is what bothers me so. I read the same Bible they do. Have the same words. I even went so far to ask God does he make the words that relate to the Father as being separate from the Son disappear when a Oneness person reads the Bible. I know that is impossiable. But if they can't see it, something is blinding them to the truth. Then they attack the Trinity doctrine. They say we worship 3 GODS. NO God is 1 God.
GOD the Father. I don't think that they have any notion of what they are talking about. I sometimes just give up on trying to understand where they are coming from. Have a Blessed Day. Tweety

Reply
 Message 3 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/4/2007 2:22 AM
Dear Tweety,
 
Dear, your search and desire for truth will be rewarded by God.  Just keep searching and desiring.
 
You are right that they are blinded.  they are willfully blind, some of them.  They flat refuse to look at truth when it is presented, for the doctrines of men mean more to them.
 
But keep looking.  That trinity doctrine is just as wrong.
 
You should jump on that one also.
 
Did you see what is taught in this message?  God is MANY.

Reply
 Message 4 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAxs2-381Sent: 6/4/2007 7:15 AM
I also say that trinity doctrine is just as wrong.
 
Some questions, I would like to ask of all of you, who believe in the "Trinity"

Can you understand a God who is one and yet three and three and yet one? Did Mary conceive a son who existed before he was born? A son who is as old as his father? This is non-sense, the doctrine of the Trinity finds no place at all in the Word of God. There is no mention of the word "trinity" in the Bible, as all of us here are aware.  Can a eternal God be begotten? Surely not? if he was eternal how can he begotten? These are questions you must answer yourselves

 

 


Reply
 Message 5 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/4/2007 3:42 PM
Great stuff, Axs.  How wonderful it would be if God's people could get free of all these lies and false doctrines of man, and come to see the real, beautiful, glorious ONENESS of God.
 
A God, existing of innumerable members,  yet so perfectly united in equality and love and harmony that it is beyond human comprehension, and so united that they are considered to be ONE.  Glory.
 
A God existing all alone, as some folks believe, is certainly no true example of the requirement on us to love your neighbor as your self,  now is it?  course not, freeborn.
 
Thanks for these powerful questions, Axs.
 
Maybe at least one soul will ponder and come to some truth.

Reply
 Message 6 of 6 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 6/6/2007 3:55 PM
<NOBR>
</NOBR><NOBR>1co 13:8</NOBR><NOBR> Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
</NOBR><NOBR>1Cor 13:9</NOBR><NOBR> For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
</NOBR><NOBR>1co 13:10</NOBR><NOBR> But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
</NOBR>
<NOBR>Da 12:4</NOBR> But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


OK,  you who say tongues ceased already,  (but never take into account that at that time knowledge shall also vanished away, explain when the thing in Daniel was or is fulfilled, that KNOWLEDGE SHALL BE INCREASED.

Which is it?  Has knowledge vanished away..........?

Or has it increased?

Take this to all your dead church folks,  (dead spiritually)  who say tongues has already ceased, and find out if knowledge vanished with the tongues, as the Word here declares that it will,....or has it increased in their lifetime? 

You know,  BOTH CANNOT BE TRUE.

Knowledge cannot have already vanished away, and at the same time, increased.

If you think this is possible, please explain it to me or get those who teach the damnable doctrine to explain it to me.

Do you people ever think for yourselves?  or do you just allow your paid hirelings to lead you around like a dog on a leash?

(peeking at you!)


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